S01E27 — Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban

SPOILER ALERT: This episode and transcript below contains major spoilers for Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban.

Featuring hosts Timothy Haynes, Donna Haynes, Rebekah Edwards, and T. Josiah Haynes.

We discuss our take on the introduction of the Marauders, our problems with the inconsistencies of time travel in the Potterverse, and our feelings about the directorial changes throughout the series. As always, we bring the spicy takes!

Listen to the other episodes in our Harry Potter series:

Final Verdicts

If you haven’t listened to the episode yet, we recommend waiting to read our verdicts. (But you’re probably grown, so do what you want!)

The Prisoner of Azkaban movie shifts into a darker tone with stunning visuals and a focus on Harry’s emotional journey, but it trims key backstory and the Marauders’ rich history. The book builds a deeper connection to Sirius, Lupin, and the mystery surrounding Harry’s parents, adding layers the movie doesn’t explore.

Tim: The book is better

Donna: The book is better

Rebekah: The book is better

Josiah: The movie is better

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Full Episode Transcript

Prefer reading? Check out the full episode transcript below. It’s AI-generated from our audio, and if we’re being honest… no one sat to read the entire thing for accuracy. (After all, we were there the whole time.) 😉 We’re sorry in advance for any typos or transcription errors.

[00:00:00] Rebekah: Welcome to the Book is Better podcast. This is a clean podcast with us, a family of four. We review book to film adaptations and, uh, give you our hot takes. So today’s episode, we’re going to be discussing the third book and film in the Harry Potter series, The Prisoner of Azkaban. Um, spoiler warning for the entire Harry Potter universe.

We are probably not going to spoil, uh, the, uh The magical creatures. What is the I’m forgetting what it’s called? Oh, no, it was so bad. Oh, gosh, we’re not gonna be spoiling Fantastic Beasts more than likely, but pretty much everything else expect spoilers, including for books and films later on in this series.

Also, I just want to do a quick reminder that we now have a discord and it is free to join In the future, there may be some channels that are Patreon subscriber only. Um, at the time of recording, we don’t have any of those yet. Um, it’s all just free. So, would love to see you there. There’s a link in our episode description.

Now, on to business. As we introduce ourselves, we like to share a little. Fun fact to tell you more about us. Uh, today’s fun fact. If you lived in the fake Harry Potter universe, which animal would be your animagus or animagus or animagus, depending on which movie you’re listening to. Uh, I will go first. My name is Rebecca.

I’m the daughter slash sister of the pod. My animagus, as will come as a shock to no one, would be a unicorn, and that unicorn has a rainbow horn, and if it doesn’t, then I will not be that animagus, animagus, animagus, and, uh, I don’t want to be. So, that’s me. 

[00:01:40] Donna: My name’s Donna, and I’m the wife and mom of our pod crew.

Group Villberg on crew. And for me, if you’ve known me for about probably 10 or 11 minutes, you might guess one of mine. But I want mine to be a cross a hybrid animal. Not cross hybrid, but two animals in one. I want the back of a cow and the head of a llama. So, I think that within 

[00:02:13] Rebekah: canon, they don’t allow that.

But because this is an imaginary universe, I will allow it. 

[00:02:18] Donna: In canon, you can’t be two? No way, get out. Well, I would be the first 

[00:02:23] Tim: might not make much sense because it’s meant to help hide you because you would kind of stick out. 

[00:02:30] Donna: I could be allow or a comma. 

[00:02:33] Tim: So that’s it. She’s a comma. 

[00:02:35] Donna: I’m a comma. 

[00:02:36] Tim: My name is Tim.

I am the husband and father of our house crew gang. Um, and after thinking about it for several minutes. I think I would probably want to be a hawk. That would be that would be mine because I would like to fly way up in the sky and look at things. Um, I would just be a little scared of being shot out of the sky.

Although hawks are usually endangered, so hopefully that wouldn’t be a problem. 

[00:03:09] Josiah: I was gonna say, I want to be a raven. I have frequent, frequent flyer miles. I have frequent dreams of flying. Um, as a human, not as a bird, but I like how ravens are seen as cunning. And last episode I said I was in Slytherin.

Even though Ravenclaw was a close second. So this is my consolation prize that I get to be a raven like Rowena. And I’m Josiah, the brother son of the podcast group family team. 

[00:03:39] Tim: Would it be strange to you to know that I have always dreamed, especially when I was a teenager and a young adult of just flying?

Had lots of dreams of flying. I would just start running and take off. 

[00:03:54] Josiah: A recurring dream for me, I’ll say, is that I pump my legs like I’m on a bicycle. And the faster I rotate my legs, the more I can fly in the air. Even though I don’t ride a bicycle in real life. 

[00:04:10] Tim: Alright, Josiah, why don’t you summarize this plot for us?

[00:04:14] Josiah: It’s such a good idea. Before we get into major differences, I wanted to cover that Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban Opens with an additional Dursley, Aunt Marge, who upsets Harry so much that he pulls a Willy Wonka and accidentally blows her up, though not entirely like a blueberry, and sends her flying through the skies of Great Britain like she’s had quite a few fizzy lifting drinks.

We learn that a convicted mass murderer, Sirius Black, has escaped the wizard prison, Azkaban, to come after Harry. Hmm, convicted mass murderer, sounds like a certain chocolate maker we know. Anyway, this school year, the new Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher is remastered. Lupin, a secret werewolf who is rather fond of Harry and all of the other students, which is a departure from most teachers in this position.

A demeanor somewhat reminiscent of Charlie’s grandpa, Joe Haggard also secures a teaching position for the care of magical creatures class, very fitting. Although his first lesson ends in disaster, and the hippo ccrt buck beak nearly dies at the hands of the ministry. I wonder if an Oompa Loompa would count as a magical creature.

Harry eventually learns that Sirius Black, Remus Lupin, and Peter Pettigrew, Sirius’s supposed victim, were all close to his parents during their time at Hogwarts, and that his father, Sirius Black Black and Pettigrew became animagi to join Remus on his monthly journeys beneath the moon, searching for that coveted golden ticket that is true friendship.

[00:05:51] All: Pettigrew 

[00:05:52] Josiah: is exposed as the one who betrayed the Potters to Voldemort, but he disappears down a bad egg chamber before Sirius, Harry’s godfather, can be cleared of the crime. To save Sirius from the Dementor’s kiss. Harry and Hermione use her secret time turner to tweak the last three hours again, setting Buckbeak free, sparing Harry and Sirius from a Dementor attack, helping Black escape on Buckbeak, and allowing the magic glass elevator to fly high in the sky.

Oh 

[00:06:25] Rebekah: my. Wow. I really like how somehow this became a summary of both Harry Potter and Dementor. But of how it relates to Willy Wonka, I think that was a really exciting, 

uh, thing you did. 

[00:06:38] Josiah: That’s such an accident. We did not mean to do that.

I will say that book three, as I was reading, um, watching, as I was listening to summaries and thinking about everything that happened, I’m reminded that book three, despite being in the lower half, of the long books. It’s like one of the shorter books. It has a ton of plot in it. It has the most plot of any book besides maybe the very last one.

There are so many unique different things you have I mean, you’re saying like, Oh, what is Chamber of Secrets about? It’s the Basilisk book. It’s the Gilderoy Lockhart book. That’s it. What’s Prisoner of Azkaban? It’s the Sirius Black book. It’s the Peter Pettigrew book. It’s the Marauder’s Map book. It’s the Time Turner book.

It’s the Buckbeak book. Oh, Aunt Marge is in the beginning too. Um, it’s, it’s, uh, the Whomping Willow book. It’s all sorts of things. It’s the Remus Lupin book. And of course, a lot of that has to do with. The marauders, they all get their own individual storyline and backstory and importance to the plot, but you know, they’re not really together for most of the book.

[00:07:59] Donna: That’s very true. My personal thought about this, because I 100 percent agree with you, my personal thought is this at the, as she was writing this book, I think the end started coming alive for her. And I think that whether it was, you know, whether she intentionally did it or it was just an outcropping of that, this begins to, there were a few things in chamber that were mirrored later on and, and think, but I think when we get to, to prisoner, I, you just see this explosion of connection.

Um, so that would, that would be my guess if I just had to read. Rowling’s mind, but 

[00:08:37] Josiah: yeah, I definitely think she was writing book two after book one was done, but it doesn’t it hadn’t necessarily exploded in popularity yet, but book three, she’s writing when she knows that there’s an audience for this. I can take my time.

I can make these books a little longer. I can expand the world and I need to figure out how I’m going to end this book. So I need to be thinking about that too. 

[00:08:59] Tim: I listened to a couple of different YouTube reviewers, and both of them said this is where the series begins to be so much deeper than just a children’s book.

So much more interesting. One of them said that this was one of their least favorite movies until they went back and watched all of them, and it turned out to be one of their favorites. Because it was so different than the first two, they didn’t like it at the time they saw it. But then later after the whole series, they really liked it.

One of the, it was one of their top. 

[00:09:37] Josiah: I think Daniel Radcliffe has said that. The director of this movie, Alfonso Cuaron, definitely contributed a lot to making Harry Potter what it was in the long run, because he didn’t come back and direct any more films. But just one V, I don’t, yeah, he just did book, he just did movie three.

But he set a magical but dark tone that the first two movies didn’t have. But and although it’s different going forward, the rest of Harry, the Harry Potter universe has that magical but serious, dark. Uh, tone to that is the book and the tone of J. K. ‘s books. But Alfonso, I think, did a lot to contribute to that tone, tonal shift.

[00:10:22] Rebekah: Yeah, very 

[00:10:22] Josiah: nice. 

[00:10:23] Rebekah: Well, let’s talk about the changes. We, as usual, are splitting into some plot timeline changes, setting changes, and then characterization. So I will actually start. Um, the first thing I noticed is in the opening scene of the movie, like before the credits, and it drives me insane. Um, Harry’s in his room and he does a spell.

He 

[00:10:47] All: does a 

[00:10:48] Rebekah: spell In his room, in not the muggle or in not the wizarding world, he does the spell Lumos Maxima, which is like a light thing. Um, you know, to read a book and I will say his The note in the book, obviously he doesn’t use the spell in the book because Lord, it was more consistent than this. Um, but he does use a flashlight under a blanket to read his school books because he has to sneak them out of the cupboard under the stairs, um, in the middle of the night to read his school books in the summer because the Dursleys have forbidden him from touching them.

Um, and I will also remind you, it is at this point that. Uh, the Dursley’s do in fact in the books and films know that Harry’s not allowed to do magic outside school. So this goes against the entire like underage magic rule. And it’s very weird because very shortly after this, he’s afraid he’s going to go to jail for doing magic outside school, except for doing it by accident, even though he just did it on purpose.

I’m so sorry. It dropped like I was so upset. This was the first film that I had read the 

[00:11:48] Tim: book, but it was such a cool title sequence. 

[00:11:52] Rebekah: No, it was stupid. This was the first one where I’d read the book and then went to see the movie and then I was upset in the opening scene. Now I do like this movie. So I just was distressed.

[00:12:02] Donna: Okay. But at the same time, if, how did they know? They don’t know who does the magic. They thought They thought in chamber that Harry did the magic that Dobby did, right? So, in a wizarding household, how did they know that all the magic that’s going on is not done by the underage wizards and witches? They don’t to me.

I always thought that 

[00:12:26] Rebekah: question asked by Harry in the books. The answer is basically that the ministry puts it to parents to control their children and forbid magic from being used in the home because there’s no way for them to tell 

[00:12:39] Donna: blah, blah, blah. I’ll move on from that. So the film begins, uh, right after that great title sequence and scene that Rebecca, you know, loves to hate.

It goes straight to Vernon bringing Aunt Marge into the house and having a very brief chat with Harry about a permission form. However, in the book, This is more extended. Harry’s gotten a letter from Hogwarts. He sees it’s the first Hogsmeade weekend that he would be able to go to, and you have to have a form, and they kind of flesh it out more in the book.

Totally get, for the purpose of time, that they cut it down, but it seemed to just chop it. And at the very least, Why couldn’t he have, why couldn’t they have shown him with his letter, even in that opening title sequence? Oh, she brings a letter in, it’s at night, he’s supposed to be hiding everything and he reads it or something.

But, you know, that’s, that was a pretty big change right at the beginning. I will 

[00:13:45] Rebekah: say, when I rewatched it again this time, I actually really liked that one. Because I felt like it condensed the important information into, Harry needs a permission sign form. Or permission form signed and Aunt Marge is there and Vernon’s expecting him to act well in order to get it signed and like they just move on.

And so I also feel like this whole film, they don’t make a huge point about like Hogsmeade and the permission form. Like it’s in the film for sure, but it feels like less of a big theme than it was in the book. 

[00:14:17] Tim: I get that. Um, I liked the longer things in the book than the movie, uh, such as Harry’s run is just a day before leaving for Hogwarts Express, uh, cutting the two weeks that he spends in Diagon Alley.

Fudge purchases his books, so we skip the scenes with him and Fortescue, the monster books, the ogling of the Firebolt. Percy’s head boy big headedness is also cut as is Jenny being kicked from the trio’s train car. I enjoyed the the length of things in the beginning of the book, but I did really enjoy the night bus.

Um, interesting. I thought to achieve the speed of the night bus, they drove the bus at normal speed and had the cars around it drive very, very slowly, barely moving. Then they advanced the film through the camera at a slower than normal rate. So when played back at a normal speed, the bus appears to be flying on the road.

So that’s not really a special effect, is it? It’s really practical. Right. And I thought that was really neat that they did it that way. 

[00:15:27] Donna: I thought it was interesting that they could control that they could get all the cars doing it. I really just thought the whole thing was CG. So I was impressed. It was a planned scene.

[00:15:38] Tim: I like the longer version of Harry, you know, being, being there by himself and those kinds of things. Yeah. But, um, in, in the film version, Harry doesn’t overhear the Weasleys talking about Sirius in the film. Um, the book has him, you know, overhearing that, that conversation. In the film, Arthur just pulls him aside and tells him directly, which, you Was kind of a problem to me because he wasn’t supposed to do that.

It was secret and he wasn’t supposed to reveal that. So in the film, he reveals that directly on purpose and it’s kind of a, an issue. Hey, 

[00:16:20] Josiah: do you remember that the film also has a frog choir? Rebecca, do you have any clue as to where double double toil and trouble comes from? 

[00:16:31] Rebekah: Is it from? Hold on. Is this a Disney movie?

No. What? No, it’s not from a Disney movie? It might 

[00:16:39] Josiah: have been said, but 

[00:16:41] Rebekah: Uh, hold on. Let me think. Okay. No, that’s a Disney movie. Dang it. Is that a Shakespeare quote? 

Yes. 

I just guessed out of thin air. 

I got it right. 

[00:16:53] Josiah: McBeth. 

[00:16:55] Rebekah: I don’t know what McBeth is McBeth. 

[00:16:58] Josiah: You don’t care about history at all. Yes, the three witches say double double toil and trouble fire burn and cauldron bubble.

They say a few other things and just a couple lines later, they say, by the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes. 

[00:17:16] All: Uh huh. Wow. And, uh, I can’t believe they’re 

[00:17:18] Josiah: talking about Macbeth. And so, uh, Something Wicked This Way Comes has, is a famous, uh, book, is a, I think it’s a famous short story. 

[00:17:26] Donna: To continue on in the film, Dumbledore doesn’t mention that Dementors aren’t fooled by invisibility cloaks, which made his speech a lot less personal toward Harry.

The book clearly indicates that he’s speaking to the trio and Dumbledore does this a number of times when he’s speaking to a group. He’ll make comments in the book and I did think it was interesting that he didn’t, that they didn’t add that line for Dumbledore because That would be another indication.

We don’t know why yet that serious would be after him. We just know he assumed that he’s after him. So this would be another little reminder. This is about you, Harry, not just everybody, not everybody else. Um, but for whatever reason, they, they left it out. So I thought that was, that was interesting. 

[00:18:19] Rebekah: I agree.

[00:18:20] Donna: It is interesting. 

[00:18:22] Rebekah: So one of the things I love in the book is the introduction of Professor Trelawney, and I don’t think we’ll talk about her a ton, mostly because, uh, well, mostly because she is pretty much in the same vein in the film as in the book, which is cool. Um, but something interesting that I loved was when she first meets the students, um, she sees the Grimm in Harry’s cup, et cetera, and Kind of like, you know, predicts his death and all the students are really upset because this is their first time in, uh, this new divination class.

Also, random fun fact, in the book, in Chamber, they discuss choosing their classes at the end of the year and then it comes up again when they’re talking in Azkaban and it’s kind of what leads into how, like, Hermione has all these extra classes all of a sudden and it was really cool in the books just as a little extra thing to learn how they choose their classes.

Anyway, nothing has to do with anything, but. In, uh, Prisoner, they then leave the class and then go to Transfiguration. McGonagall changes, because she is an Animagus, a registered Animagus, changes into a cat. And the whole class is kind of like, underwhelmed. And she gets annoyed, because normally that’s like her best trick when everybody gets excited.

Then in the book she explains, they like tell her like, oh, we’re just all upset about whatever. And so, um, then she explains that Professor Trelawney’s way of greeting a new class of students is to predict someone’s death and she’s never been correct. And so, I think it’s cool because it foreshadows that like she’s probably not really an oracle, you know, and then we find out later in the book and film that she does see the future sometimes, but she doesn’t know it when she’s making actual predictions.

Um, also I like it because I feel like it makes it more powerful when we have two books later, Professor McGonagall defending and protecting Professor Trelawney. So I understand why they left it out for time. I think Josiah is right as I’m thinking about all these like, quick cuts at the beginning. It’s probably just, there’s so much plot, but that is something that I like knowing from having read the books.

[00:20:32] Josiah: Did you know that Trelawney, the actress of Trelawney, her glasses were actually magnifying glasses. 

[00:20:40] Rebekah: Oh gosh. It actually made Emma 

[00:20:42] Josiah: Thompson sick and dizzy. That’s the price of fame as you all know. 

[00:20:48] Rebekah: Yes, especially if you’re in a large 

[00:20:49] Josiah: part like 

[00:20:50] Tim: that. 

[00:20:51] Rebekah: Yeah, 

[00:20:51] Tim: that’s cool. Well, in the book, Professor Lupin does not let Harry face the Boggart at all in the classroom, correct?

Correct, because he only 

[00:21:03] Rebekah: gets points at the end of the lesson because he also answered a question, which is cut from the film. 

[00:21:08] Tim: And he says, why did I get a point? Yeah. Um, in the book, but in the film, um, In the film, he lets it turn into a Dementor, won’t let Harry defeat it, it lets it turn into a moon and then goes away.

One of the kids even says, why is Professor Lupin, in the book, says, why is Professor Lupin scared of crystal balls? Um, but in both cases In the book it was not clear that it was the moon. Right. Uh, in both cases, he tells Harry later on when Harry’s staying back from the Hogsmeade trip that he was concerned the Boggart would turn into Lord Voldemort.

[00:21:44] Rebekah: I thought this was a weak change, if I’m being honest, because in the book, it made more sense that he steps in front of Harry before it turns. But it’s weird for him to, like, I think it’s poor writing to say, oh, I’m gonna let it turn into the definition of fear. But then I’m gonna stand in front of you because I’m afraid it’ll turn into a second scary thing, which was inconsistent because like when the other kids were in front of it, it never turned into two different scary things.

It was the scary thing than the funny thing. I thought this was a very weird 

[00:22:16] Tim: change. That is one of my struggles with this book and film. I feel like a number of the things that were cut took out people’s motivations or explanations for why they would do something. So many of the things seem to just kind of stand on their own and you think, okay, that’s a fact, but you don’t have What led up to it, you know, the thing with Hermione and choosing all those classes, you know, suddenly in the film, you know, we’ve, where did you come from?

And how did you get here? I’ve been here all along kind of thing, but they don’t really explain it. come from? Where did you go? Where did you come from? 

[00:22:54] Rebekah: Hermione? That doesn’t rhyme. Maybe her middle name is Joe. 

[00:22:59] Josiah: Hermione, Joe. J. K. Rowling’s name is Joanne. 

[00:23:04] Rebekah: Oh, um, also, I think it’s very interesting when you’re talking about, like, motivations and things being changed.

I’m also like I talked about this on our last episode, but I’m very big on, especially in this universe, about the consistency of like how magic works and doesn’t work, how that whatever the continuity of those kinds of things, not just the plot. In the book and in the film, Lupin points out that nobody knows what a Boggart looks like when he is alone because he doesn’t know what’s on the other side of the door or whatever.

But in the fifth book, and I don’t think this is part of the film, it’s been a long time, I’ll have to go back and look. But in the fifth book, it is mentioned that Moody looks up from the kitchen in number 12 Grimauld Place and with his magical eye, He sees the Boggart that’s high up like on a different floor because they ask him to get rid of it.

And I’ve always wondered why didn’t you just use a sentence or two like as a writer to plug in and say that like oh Well Moody apparently is like the only person because of his eye that knows what a Boggart looks like alone Like we’re like without being seen. You know what I mean? Like I was 

[00:24:12] Tim: changing into your fear.

Mm hmm 

[00:24:14] Donna: Yeah. Another creature that comes up for the first time in this movie, uh, is the hippogriff, Buckbeak. Harry rides the hippogriff on an extended trip in the film when Hagrid shows them this in, in, uh, his first Care of Magical Creatures class. Harry, of course, can woo Buckbeak and he gets up on him and he just flies all over the place.

And he’s loving it and he’s soaring through the sky again, there is some affinity for Harry flying in these films. Goblet and Hallows include Harry flying through the air in a much larger, exaggerated way than what the books portray. And now that Josiah kind of tipped us off to this in the last. episode.

I can see it in the book. You can’t just say, and Harry flew and he flew and he flew and he flew and he flew because it goes nowhere. But in the movie, you can make that more grandiose. Um, could they have shortened the flying a little bit to maybe throw in another something that would have been world building.

I don’t know. I think that 

[00:25:26] Rebekah: this is partly because this book while having a lot of plot has very little like Physical action. And so I think that this was part of making it feel like an adventure. That’s one thing I like. And as much as it kind of pains me, because I think it was weird in some ways, the scene from Chamber that we talked about in the last episode, where they’re flying in the car over a Hogwarts Express, um, as much as I like, don’t understand some of the time reasons for that, That was another way of making you feel like you were in this grandiose environment.

Whereas, in this film, they add several things or like, make them more on screen. Like, you see when Lupin turns into a werewolf, like, there’s more kind of fight there with Snape and then with, um, with Sirius. And so I think that some of that was just to make it feel like an action y. Thing and not make it feel like most of the interesting stuff that’s happening is like not physically.

[00:26:22] Donna: Yeah. Yeah relevant. It’s in the book. Harry has opportunity to also just be alone and be rid of stress when he goes to Hogsmeade. I think, or when he goes to Diagon Alley, I think, Tim, if I’m, correct me if I’m wrong, one of your favorite things about that is Harry gets to be a kid. 

[00:26:43] Tim: Yeah. Gets to do whatever he wants.

ice 

[00:26:45] Donna: cream and, and sundaes and, uh, the, the ice cream, the, the guy at the ice cream shop just loves to give him ice cream. things. He’ll give him a second one. Who cares? And and he’s allowed to just go up and down the street and he’s not being chased by Dudley and Pierce and their their evil gang. He has an unusual amount of freedom in his life.

Yeah. And so this too, that is something about this scene. You actually see Harry like he’s happy and I think that I do think that’s a cool thing about it. Another thing about Buckbeak that I found a piece of trivia that I thought was interesting. Um, if you remember, I am the person that introduced Buckcrack Santa, so I don’t know if potty humor just happens to be a thing in my brain that lives up there.

You’re basically a 12 

[00:27:35] Rebekah: year old boy. I just don’t want to admit it. Yeah, I 

[00:27:37] Donna: have a 12 year old boy brain that’s living up there. But when Buckbeak is first seen, and I did not catch this when I watched the movie, there’s a shot of him pooping. 

[00:27:50] Tim: I didn’t catch that 

[00:27:51] Donna: either. I didn’t either. It’s the first time that a CGI animal.

was shown pottying on in a film. Now there was another scene in walking with dinosaurs, which was a BBC miniseries from 1999, which was on television, which Tim has seen. They did portray this. not to spoil walking with dinosaurs, but they didn’t film real living dinosaurs in the movie. Thank you for the clarification.

Yeah. So when you see them pooping, they do. I mean, the Loch Ness Monster is still over there in the lake, but they didn’t film him either. So 

[00:28:33] All: Um, 

[00:28:34] Donna: but I thought that was an interesting little factoid because of all the things they could put in or keep it out of the movie, they added that. So I thought that was kind of interesting.

Somebody’s 

[00:28:43] Rebekah: job was to, somebody’s job was to animate Buckbeak taking a poo poo. 

[00:28:48] Donna: Yeah. I’m just, I want to point that out. Especially if that animator had little, little boys. Can you imagine him? Yes. What I got to do today 

[00:28:57] Tim: or talking to his mom. Yeah, mom. I really did get to work on this film. Yeah. It’s a really big, big movie.

Yeah. It’s a big movie. You’ll, you’ll see my scene. Yeah. I’m helping the hippogriff poop. Yeah. 

[00:29:08] Josiah: Mom’s similar to pooping. In the book, the class was very upset when Substitute Snape called Hermione an insufferable know it all, very poopy of him. The film shows Ron saying that Snape has a point. Husband material.

[00:29:39] Rebekah: Do you think that it’s because they were trying to lean into the, like, schoolyard, childhood affection angle? Where, because it’s not until the next film where they establish, like, some romantic tension. And so maybe this is kind of one of the last. Ways that they’re introducing like he picks on you because he likes you.

They’re supposed to be 13, 

[00:29:59] Tim: right? 

[00:30:01] Donna: 13. 

[00:30:01] Tim: Yeah 

[00:30:02] Donna: So that would be a normal thing for a boy to say Even though you’re right is kind of the reason 

[00:30:08] Tim: he picks on you is because he actually likes you 

[00:30:11] Rebekah: Josiah and I do not support immaturity in uh, the male Behavior system. I don’t know how to. 

[00:30:18] Josiah: Yeah, I guess it was 20 years ago.

So times are different. 

[00:30:23] Tim: That particular thing bothers me, you know, is because why would you say that kind of thing about a student? In front of the class. I mean, that’s that seems extreme for a teacher. Oh, maybe it’s because you’re 

[00:30:38] Rebekah: a bad person with poor character. Sorry, I can’t really 

[00:30:41] Josiah: bad childhood and adolescence.

And it’s so sad. Yeah, I get it. Wanting to take it out on other people because he doesn’t know what else to do. No one will be his friend 

[00:30:51] Tim: excuses. You’ll hear them every day. Oh, wait. I’m so glad that you’re on my side. 

[00:30:57] Josiah: It’s so funny that the two real stressed out and erotic people are the ones who have this wrong opinion.

[00:31:05] Tim: We better move on. Harry and Lupin’s encounter is shown in the movie on the wooden bridge, um, which causes a little bit of a problem with continuity in later Later books and films, uh, it’s in Lupin’s office in the book and in book seven, Lupin asks Harry which magical creature was in the room the first time Harry visited Lupin’s office.

And so, uh, that gives a little bit of a problem since the first time they had their conversation was on the bridge and not in his office. Little makes it a little strange for later and especially if you’re going back and looking at continuity You think that didn’t quite fit and how did they know that and that sort of thing?

[00:31:51] Rebekah: One little thing that I thought was interesting is they cut where Neville got in trouble Because he had like written down the passwords to Gryffindor Tower and that was stolen and that allowed Sirius black To, um, break in or he gave the correct password to the, the, um, fat lady and then she wouldn’t let him in.

No, sir. And he attacked. 

[00:32:12] Tim: Hmm. No. Oh, that’s 

[00:32:14] Rebekah: right. Sir Cadogan lets him in. Is that what happened? Is that what I’m remembering then? 

[00:32:18] Josiah: Yeah, because he had the passwords. 

[00:32:19] Rebekah: He attacked her because she wouldn’t let him in because he didn’t have the password. But I think Cadogan does let him in. Because 

[00:32:25] Tim: they didn’t put that in the movie, this is one of those places where they kind of take out motivations and answers to questions that people might have.

Crookshanks and Sirius actually had a special bond in the book. Uh, that’s not in the movie. We read that Crookshanks is the one who stole the passwords from Neville, who always wrote them down, and helped Black into the school, and even, even assisted him in getting into the Whomping Willow entrance. So all Crookshanks is in the movie, in the film version, is a cat who doesn’t like 

[00:33:02] Rebekah: That causes Ron and Hermione to argue occasionally.

[00:33:04] Tim: Who doesn’t like The rat who turns out to be pedigree and we don’t get any other depth in that character. Now let’s be honest, it is a cat, but sure, did have a depth of character in the book that is missing in the film. 

[00:33:19] Rebekah: So that’s actually one thing I think probably got cut because of the lack of payoff because it is a really, in my opinion, it’s a very interesting thing that Kirk Shanks is like so.

magically skilled and it’s obviously he’s much more than just a traditional cat and Crookshanks is like in the future movies and like there’s some funny stuff where he and Pigwidge and get along well and like whatever but I think that there’s no payoff for like he doesn’t really come back and do anything that’s important like in future films or books and so I can understand why that would not be important enough to like include.

[00:33:55] Donna: There’s also a great character building scene in the book where Harry and Ron go to Hagrid’s. He says, you know, I want to, I want to talk to you. And they’re thinking he wants to hear about what happened with Ron and the, or with Ron and Harry, something that had gone on. And he gets down there, he’s like, I want to talk to you about Hermione.

And they’re like, what? And Ron’s like, you know what her cat did? And he said, yeah, he acted like a cat, Ron. I thought a friendship would be more important than a cat. I loved that. And so. There was a, there was some real character building stuff there, but I did know, I did notice as I was going, uh, doing some research on my own, and then I kind of went back and connected all of it, the movies, basically Haggard’s part from, from book, from movie one on, he gets his stuff in, in movie one, some of his parts are less than two in the books, he’s not as prominent in every book, but I noticed in the movies, you’re, you see less of him as you go along.

He’s there. I think that’s accurate. 

[00:34:58] Rebekah: Yeah. It is interesting because he’s like a pretty big part of their lives. So it is kind of interesting that they cut him more and more as time goes on. This whole thing about Buckbeak being charged and sentenced to death, and then having an appeal, blah, blah, blah.

Part of what happens, and why Ron and Harry are less involved in the court preparation or whatever, um, is because there’s actually a pretty long plot line about how Ron and Harry, uh, are mad at Hermione. And I mean, I think this is like several weeks long, like you’re talking a long time. So, in the book, what happens is, Harry’s at Christmas morning, I believe given a firebolt as a gift and it is unmarked.

It is not clear who it came from. Hermione warns him like, hey, what if that’s from Sirius Black? He’s trying to kill you. Who would spend this much money on you and like not tell you who it was, blah, blah, blah. You need to tell Professor McGonagall. Exactly. So she says you should tell the professor. They disagree.

She turns, well, I say turns him in like he didn’t do something wrong, but she goes to McGonagall who says, Oh yeah, like obviously we need to check if this is cursed. So he’s really excited, but he loses the fireball before he can even fly it because they want to check it for curses, et cetera, et cetera.

In the film, that is all cut. So like they don’t go through these several weeks of ignoring Hermione and like of being mad at her and all this time. Also, there’s this, Quidditch is very, very minimally a part of the third movie in particular. It’s like, And I think they show a little bit of one Quidditch match, which obviously in the book, there’s a lot of Quidditch.

So, uh, he had like told Wood that he got this firebolt and Wood’s all excited. And then he said, well, don’t get too excited. It was taken away. So there’s this whole thing where he doesn’t know if he’s going to have it by the next Quidditch match and whatever they cut all of it. So. The way he gets the broom is that at the very end of the film, Harry, uh, gets a package.

It is labeled from Sirius because at this point he knows that Sirius is his godfather that loves him and isn’t as Azkaban because he was, uh, not actually the one who murdered anyone, whatever. Um, and so that is how they end the film. All of it. 

[00:37:09] Tim: I have a theory for why they cut that part out aside from just time.

I understand that. But all of those things together make Hermione of the book very unlikable and then you feel sorry for her because Ron is mad at her. But in the film, Ron is mad at her for no good reason because a cat is being a cat. And you feel sorry, but he’s not as 

[00:37:35] Rebekah: mad at 

[00:37:35] Tim: her. You feel sorry for her in the film.

In the book, you think, how dare she, you know, go behind their back and do all the things, you know, report it to the teacher and get it all messed up. So it makes her insufferable. Yeah, I think it was a choice to say, Hermione needs to be more likable. So let’s adjust this plot and cut out all those pieces.

And so they had to cut out all the pieces that were connected to it or else they wouldn’t have made any sense at all. Makes 

[00:38:05] Donna: sense. In the book, Harry actually sneaks to Hogsmeade twice after George and Fred give him the the Marauders map. He makes two trips into Hogsmeade. Uh, but the film combines these encounters and then in one of the encounters that’s during the winter it’s snowy and cold outside is when he’s there in the cape.

Ron and Hermione don’t, don’t really know he’s there with them at the moment and he throws snowballs and mud and stuff at Draco and Crabbe and Goyle and then Crabbe and Pike. Oh Crabbe and Pike. Oh, yeah, and then um, Draco turns around and Harry, Harry’s cape got caught on something and his head was revealed.

And that’s a great scene in the book because Harry has to fly back and the trip from Hogsmeade to the castle through the tunnels Is like really long, he’s worn out, his hands are dirty, and Snape’s right there, and he has to go, you know, Snape confronts him. So there’s a lot of stuff in the book that go on there, goes on there.

I get, I can see why 

[00:39:15] Rebekah: they left it. Also the reason if you were confused like I was when dad just said Pike, uh, the actor playing Gregory Goyle, Josh Herdman is in the prisoner movie very, very minimally. He had an arm injury and he was really unable to be there for like a majority of the scenes he was scheduled for.

So his presence was replaced by Bronson Webb as an unnamed Slytherin boy who is actually called Pike on some occasions. 

[00:39:41] Tim: Yeah. The explanation of the marauders history is far shorter in the film. Um, essentially cut other than establishing the boys friendship, the marauders. We do not learn of the connection between the tree and the shrieking shack.

Um, we don’t learn in the film that, you know, Padfoot and you know, the other three, those are, that’s the group of people that, that includes Peter Pettigrew and Lupin and Sirius Black and Potter. 

[00:40:14] Rebekah: If you’ve never read this book, that is genuinely one of the best parts of the book is like getting into, it’s a, it’s like a 42 minute chapter, I think.

[00:40:24] Donna: Wow. 

[00:40:24] Rebekah: Um, I would looked at it cause I re listened to that chapter last night cause I wanted to like hear all the specifics and. It is one of the best, I think, parts of this book. Um, not to give it away, but it’ll probably be what my favorite scene was when I do my uh, final verdict. But I think that it was so good to learn how they, why they decided to become, um, animagi.

I have no idea how to say that correctly. You can decide for yourself. How to turn into animals. Animoji. It’s a made up 

[00:40:54] Tim: word, so. 

[00:40:56] Rebekah: Yeah, that’s true. All words are made up words. 

[00:40:58] Tim: I think that the, that, uh, the Marauders map, all of that history with it missing from the film, I think that’s a missed opportunity.

I think in the book it was a really good opportunity to get to know them, to feel for them, because in the film they’re a little disconnected from, from too much. You don’t get enough depth in their characters and the why behind some of the things. I Why it matters that Peter betrayed them and this that and the other 

[00:41:26] Rebekah: I can see why this wouldn’t have been done However, I think it would have been a really cool time to do a flashback like a three minute long flashback with really quick cutscenes of boys growing up and like You can do super quick lines where they find out he’s a werewolf.

They say, we’re going to do this to help you. And the first time they successfully turn in, you could have used the scene where they do that weird candy thing that makes them make noise. You could replace that scene with a flashback. like later in the film that connects you to these characters. And I feel like it would have given you so much world building and lore and character development that simply just are very, very missed.

And I feel like I never in these films, I never totally believed that Sirius was like awesome and someone that I should miss deeply when he dies, but in the books I do. And I think it’s because in the books, I understand like who he was from a child. 

[00:42:30] Josiah:

[00:42:31] Rebekah: agree. 

[00:42:31] Josiah: I guess I would disagree slightly, um, just on the end product, because I do think, I just don’t think, uh, the backstory of the Marauders works on film, and it’s so great, and the unfortunate thing is, I also don’t really think it’s A lot of the third, the third movie, third book works without the Marauders.

So, 

[00:42:56] Donna: yeah, 

[00:42:56] Josiah: it’s a, it’s kind of tough. 

[00:42:58] Donna: Kind of a two headed monster. 

[00:43:00] Josiah: I remember when I watched all the movies before I read any book. I did not care about Lupin. I never really felt Peter Pettigrew was connected to any of them. I didn’t really care about James that much. But I loved Sirius. So, yeah. I wonder if, from my perspective, I wonder if the filmmakers said, okay, this is a lot.

We’re going to focus on Gary Oldman. We’re going to try to make him the person you relate to instead of spreading it across Lupin and Sirius and James. And then, you know, confusing kids with the relationship that Peter Pettigrew used to have with them versus the evil. Timothy Spall, ugly actor that he is now, so he has to be evil because he’s ugly, you know, I think how it came across to me is that they focused on relating to Sirius Black at the expense of mainly Lupin, but other things too.

I feel like as a kid, when Lupin appeared in later films, I did not even know who he was. 

[00:44:06] Rebekah: Hmm. Wow. That is interesting. Also during this scene, um, they change the nature of one of the things that happens, uh, when Snape becomes knocked out, which is number one inconsistent magically with their systems of like how things work and it’s inconsistent.

Well, not inconsistent, but it, I didn’t like the change. So in the book, in this scene where kind of Lupin and Sirius end up sharing about why the marauders who are who they are and what. all happened to them. Snape comes in. He apparently found Harry’s invisibility cloak, which by the way, I did read, I thought it was very interesting.

The invisibility cloak is not used in the third movie, which is odd because Harry uses it a lot. And I think he in, in the movie, he uses it to go to, sorry, you’re right. He uses it to go to Hogsmeade, but in the film he uses it. Like to go into the Whomping Willow, it’s like part of that because Snape gets his invisibility cloak and behind it is able to sneak in and he was like listening to the conversation.

So he tries to come in and disrupt the conversation right when they’re about to prove or tell Harry or whatever why Sirius is actually not a murderer. So, in the book, Harry, Ron, and Hermione all shout the disarming spell at the same time, which knocks Snape out because it is a triple, like, power spell.

And they kind of look at each other in shock that they’ve done this, but all, it’s after like a conversation with Snape. Nate that makes it clear that he’s going to call a dementor and have serious, get the dementors kiss. They’re like right away, he’s literally going to basically take his life. And so this is their only way to find out the truth, whatever.

And Hermione does go, Oh, we just, we just cursed a teacher. Like, and she does freak out a little bit, but they’re kind of together on this in the film, Harry shouts, Expelliarmus. Shocking the other two children, which I mean, yes, it’s shocking. Also, though, Expelliarmus, which is a disarming spell, knocks Snape out, but there’s no reason for him to be knocked out at this point.

And so, that is one of the other, like When you see it 

[00:46:14] Donna: used 

[00:46:14] Rebekah: in other times 

[00:46:15] Donna: in the film, it does nothing like that, anytime they ever 

[00:46:18] Rebekah: use it. No. It doesn’t even really push you back much. 

[00:46:21] Tim: So, the film does end with Harry riding his new firebolt from Sirius, he rides it up into the sky, and that’s the ending of the film.

However, in the book, the story concludes on the train, where Harry gets a letter of permission slip from Sirius, and Ron gets his owl, and they end at King’s Cross. Um, and the very ending is Harry tells Vernon that he has a godfather who is a murderer who will be checking up on him, um, basically to tell him, you need to treat me properly.

I have to live here, but I don’t have to You know, put up with all of your which I appreciate it. That made me very happy. 

[00:47:03] Rebekah: And just I love the scene on the train. I understand like again, they just redid so much of the conflict and things to fit everything in. But I love the book scene on the train where, you know, Ron gets pig widget and it’s like there’s this little letter that says since I’m the reason you don’t have a rat or something like he wanted to replace it and pig widget is this really sweet little like pet for the rest of the films.

Or the rest of the books rather. Um, but also I love that Hermione goes, you know, I do want to point out that I was right. And it’s like, well, what were you right about? And she’s like, serious did buy you the broom. And he was like, yeah, but not to curse me. And she’s like, but he did buy it. And I was right about that.

I loved that on the book in the book. And I, you know, it was a little sad that it was gone in my opinion. 

[00:47:46] Josiah: I’m pretty, uh, positive on this director, Alfonso Caron. I think he’s great. at the aesthetic of the movie especially, and the cinematography, but I will say I cannot figure out the justification for ending the movie on a freeze frame like it’s a movie from the 80s.

[00:48:07] Rebekah: Yeah, it was very 80s like. Let’s move into some of the changes to setting. 

[00:48:12] Josiah: Hey, the filmmakers made some retroactive changes in Prisoner of Azkaban, including Hogwarts is more hilly with a clock tower in the back of the castle and a long wooden bridge connecting it to a nearby hill. I guess they did some renovations.

[00:48:26] Tim: My, my understanding from one of the, from one of the producers of, of the films, and I can’t remember who it was now, but in an interview he said we didn’t really like the way that Hogwarts looked as a silhouette in the first film, and, but we eventually got it changed to where it was more impressive. 

[00:48:47] Josiah: Uh, Haggard’s hut is also moved down a slope.

Also, the Whomping Willow is farther away from the castle than it was. in the previous movie when the flying car crashed into it. It’s de incentivizes people remembering and memorizing what your world is like. 

[00:49:05] All: Yeah. It 

[00:49:06] Josiah: makes you think, Oh, are the characters in trouble? Or are the filmmakers just going to change something completely randomly at the last second?

Because they’ve done that in the past. 

[00:49:17] Rebekah: So I have a little trivia question that has to relate to Hogwarts Legacy. Now, I don’t think anybody has played it. TJ, have you played it? 

[00:49:23] Josiah: I have not played Hogwarts Legacy video game. 

[00:49:28] Rebekah: I would recommend you do because it’s fun. Which of the films, the exterior of Hogwarts, which of the films exterior of Hogwarts matches the closest to the Hogwarts legacy layout of the grounds?

Okay, you want to say it out loud since this is an audio podcast? Number four. 

[00:49:47] Tim: I thought you were asking TJ the question. 

[00:49:49] Rebekah: No, I just, since none of you have played it, just guess. Because you mentioned that this one obviously is very different. Okay. You say seven. Okay. 

[00:49:56] Josiah: Um, should you say three? 

[00:49:57] Donna: I mean, four and seven have, well, if I want to pick another one, I’ll say six.

[00:50:03] Josiah: I’ll say three then. Six 

[00:50:04] Donna: is, six is the correct answer. Oh. Oh. It is. 

[00:50:08] Rebekah: It’s the closest to the half blood prince. So they kept 

[00:50:11] Tim: building. Hogwarts till they got it where they wanted it. They 

[00:50:15] Rebekah: shifted it. I think that this was the most major difference. In the very last film, there was also like a weird viaduct added that’s not in other ones, but like it’s mostly similar.

[00:50:26] Josiah: So the big bridge where like, I think in important, especially to the last movie, 

[00:50:33] Rebekah: was 

[00:50:33] Josiah: that bridge added in three? 

[00:50:35] Rebekah: In this one. I believe so. Okay. Because that’s where he’s He and Hermione and Ron talk about, talk on it in the end of the fourth movie, but in this film, where he and Lupin meet. That’s 

[00:50:48] Tim: the wooden 

[00:50:48] Rebekah: bridge, right?

I feel like one other thing happens. 

[00:50:51] Josiah: Isn’t that what we’re talking about? That’s the wooden bridge, right? It’s the wooden bridge on the way to the stone bridge. Yeah, and that’s where he talked with Lupin. 

[00:50:57] Rebekah: Yeah. Um, I’ve been trying to keep track of like how they use the spells in the books and films differently.

Um, this also is kind of a related to Hogwarts legacy. Um, there is a spell that they add for the films, the bombard a spell. Um, one thing that I appreciated about the way that this was written is that all of the words used are just Latin terms. And so I can literally Google the Latin for whatever word that I’m curious about and their Latin terms that means something close to what they are.

So. They’re not made up words, um, in that way. Spill words. So, yes. They invent this spell, Bombarda, which is kind of like for causing a small explosion. That is invented only for the film. So it’s not used in any of the books, which I think is interesting. Now there’s obviously, they have like books where you can like read through all of the ones that used in the books and all the ones they’ve said after are accurate and everything used in Fantastic Beasts.

Um, but in the book, the way that Hermione rescues Sirius out of the top tower room where he was, was just by using Alohomora to unlock the door. Bombarda was more interesting. Uh, I say it relates to Hogwarts Legacy 2, though, because that is one of the primary early attack spells that you get, that you can use.

[00:52:11] Josiah: LOL. What was, um, I feel like in Order of the Phoenix, Dolores, I mean the lady in pink, Finds a little hole in the wall when she’s looking for Dumbledore’s army, and she explodes the wall. Isn’t that like Bombarda Maxima or something? 

[00:52:28] Rebekah: Bombarda Maxima? You remembered that correctly. I’m so proud! I’m very impressed.

That’s so good. And yeah, again, it was only used in the films. This is not a spell that was ever mentioned in the book. 

[00:52:41] Donna: Yeah, we, we had mentioned some changes to the, to the visual, but this whole film getting into this book takes like a darker tone. In this book, he has the conversation about, he realizes he’s hearing his mother scream and he thinks he can hear his dad and the, Oh, I can’t talk about that anyway.

A choice 

[00:53:04] Tim: that I think I’m glad that they didn’t use in the films. 

[00:53:08] Donna: That is just so dark and just so jarring to think of a young person because there are Children who have witnessed or been small when their parents were murdered. That’s real life that happens in life. It may not happen at the hands of a dark wizard, but it happens.

You know, you’ve got to decide how far do we want to go with this emotional train wreck that you’re, that’s happened in the books. And it’s a 

[00:53:36] Rebekah: stark departure from the second book. Like there’s a lot in the second book that’s a little scary and stuff like that. But this one kind of ramps it up to a very high degree.

Yeah. For sure. One of the darker things that was in the book was something that I noticed they didn’t pull over for the film when we get into kind of more characterization differences. Um, obviously Aunt Marge is still awful and says something in the movie I think still about like, I won’t have this namby pamby business about not hitting people who deserve it, you know, which is ridiculous.

But Um, I forgot that she said this when I was re listening to audio book recently in the beginning when she’s talking about her dogs and like leaving, uh, leaving them with Colonel flubster at home, she talks about how she had him drown a puppy because he was like a runt. And it’s like, I heard that and I thought, Oh my gosh, like you can’t say that.

And so I think in the book, it was like a quick passing line and you don’t like sit on it. But I think in the film it would have been like, again, a little too much to say. So, 

[00:54:44] Tim: yeah. Well, we have another listener question. dealing with characterization. Um, the question is from My Own Sweet Chaos. Uh, did you Or nachos, if you will.

I keep seeing nachos. I think you just got food on the brain. She is 

[00:55:02] Donna: gonna love us so much. No, no. 

[00:55:05] Tim: The question, did you feel like the characters introduced in this film, especially the marauders, matched with the descriptions in the book? I Do 

[00:55:17] Rebekah: I think that is the, you know, we’re talking about Lupin, Sirius and Wormtail were like the two big one or the three big ones.

And then the other people introduced in this film were Trelawney and I’m looking through the list to make sure I don’t forget anyone. And well, yeah, Buckbeak does, it’s not a person, so he doesn’t have much of a personality, but I think that they all did, because I was actually, when I was thinking about what we wanted to discuss, change wise with characters, none of the majorly new introduced characters were even on the list, because I feel like they’re pretty close.

I think that Wormtail was very, He did a great, I love, I love the casting for that. Timothy Spall, like, I hate the character because he’s awful, but like, he acted so well in that. I thought that once they kind of developed Sirius into, oh, we actually can trust him. Like totally worked. I really liked loop.

And I know Josiah felt like he was more forgettable. I would say I don’t really agree with that. And then I thought Trelawney was like weird and spooky, but in like a, in an obviously dumb way, like that not spooky in a way that you should be afraid of her, but spooky in a way that she’s an idiot a little bit.

So I thought that they were really good. They, yeah, I thought it was good. Is Wormtail supposed to be 

[00:56:37] Tim: scrawnier in the book? 

[00:56:39] Josiah: Well, the, 

[00:56:39] Tim: the 

[00:56:40] Rebekah: rat is. McGonagall, 

[00:56:41] Tim: McGonagall talks about him as the scrawny little kid. He’s shorter and scrawny when he’s a student. Short, 

[00:56:46] Rebekah: round, watery eyes and balding is what Chad GPT put in our little table that I have at Make.

[00:56:51] All: So, um, 

[00:56:53] Donna: Are you going to ask why is he big and fat when he turns into Peter Pettigrew? Yeah, 

[00:56:59] Josiah: why is he a big boy whenever he’s been eating a rat diet for years and years? And 

[00:57:05] Rebekah: barely eating. Well, and he’s scrawny because he’s lost weight ever since he’s been afraid since the whole summer. So it’s been like nine or ten months since he’s been consistently losing weight, even as a rat.

That is a good point. That’s probably one thing that was inconsistent was he should have been like Thinner, maybe. Yeah. One of the very minor characters they introduced that was very, very, only briefly in the film was Sir Cadogan, the painting of the knight riding a pony. Um, I wish that they would have used him more.

I would say that was one of the ones that did stick out as a little different in a way that I was like, why? Because it’s so dark in the books, he offers like really silly comic relief a lot. And he comes back up. In book five when they are meeting in the room of requirement because they meet very close to his normal paintings location.

Um, so I was a little bummed that they kind of just, he was very briefly used and mentioned. But again, it’s like you only have so much time. 

[00:58:05] Donna: And I loved his line, Scurvy Kerr. Same to you. Iconic. Yeah, I really thought that was pretty cool. But I would never have spelled his name like that. When I look at his name, I see Sir Cartagin.

[00:58:19] Tim: Part again. And I thought, I thought that the, uh, the fat lady did a really good job of being scared. That gave Dawn French 

[00:58:27] All:

[00:58:28] Tim: little more depth to that minor character. Oh, yeah. 

[00:58:33] Josiah: Another minor character in the book that became more major in the future that was left out of the film is Cho Chang. She was not introduced into the fourth film, although she is in the third book.

I believe she is the Quidditch Hufflepuff seeker, 

[00:58:50] Tim: is that right? She was also the girlfriend of Cedric Diggory, who also was not introduced in this film, but he was in the book. He is the captain for the Hufflepuff Quidditch team. 

[00:59:04] Rebekah: It’s the only one Harry’s ever not caught the snitch. Any game he was playing, Harry caught the snitch.

And so it was a big deal that, um, I lost to Hufflepuff. 

[00:59:13] Donna: And in the film, there is a person flying beside Harry that’s assumed to be Cedric when he’s at one point when he’s chasing The, the snitch. Um, but he’s not, he’s not credited or named different 

[00:59:27] Tim: actor. 

[00:59:27] Donna: Yeah. 

[00:59:28] Rebekah: Oh my gosh. You guys were idiots. Show is also a seeker.

She’s in Ravenclaw. That’s why they were on a different team. So there we go. I mean, I kind of get why they hadn’t cast Edward Cullen. I mean, whatever his real name is. Um, Robert, I think it’s interesting that who cares? No one cares. He’s the man. He’s 

[00:59:50] Josiah: the best Batman there is. 

[00:59:53] Rebekah: Yes. Travis Yarborough. They chose to show a single Quidditch match with a book that was out.

They knew that there were, like, there were clear connections from this to that. And for some reason, the one Quidditch match they show is the one that Diggory should have been in, but somebody else is in his place, but then he’s not credited to Cedric Diggory. It was so weird. so weird. That to me is a really weird thing.

[01:00:16] Josiah: In movies, you can’t set things up that pay off in a future movie like in a book. 

[01:00:22] Rebekah: You could, but you don’t. I don’t know if you 

[01:00:24] Josiah: could. Yeah, you can’t. Audiences 

[01:00:25] Rebekah: are stupid then because I think that it’s great if you can. So they do fail to introduce these two characters, this book, like that were in this book.

They don’t introduce them in the film, but they do introduce a random, uh, random Gryffindor student whose name is listed as BEM. He is a character just in this film. He’s not in any of the other films, and he has memorable lines, very briefly explaining what the grim is to Seamus Finnegan, and he expresses his concerns that the Dementors have not been able to find Black.

I thought that they were trying to say that that was, um, oh my gosh, what’s Seamus’s best friend’s name? I thought they were trying to say that that was Dean Thomas and then somehow they changed the actor and I thought, no, they use the same actor for that. I don’t understand. Nope. It’s just a random dude that they made up and never use 

[01:01:18] Donna: again.

Um, the last characterization change and in the last episode, if you notice, if you heard it, I did write kind of a weird thing about Richard Harris, you know, being old and, you know, And I’m not trying to be rude, but to be fair, none of Richard Harris’s family is going to ever hear this and he’s dead. He won’t hear it.

So I’m going to say this. Dumbledore, unlike Fox, looks very different in this new iteration. They don’t try to do anything to hide the fact that it’s a different actor, except Nothing. I mean, he still has the white beard and all that. He’s got the Dumbledore look. But it’s a whole new person. And that’s completely understood.

Since Dumbledore from Chamber of Secrets died. I mean. Yeah, the original actor was dead. So they could 

[01:02:10] Tim: not look the same. The TV show Bewitched from many, many, many years ago. 

[01:02:13] Donna: for doing one season 

[01:02:15] Tim: together. We just changed the husband and other than putting his name in the credits, there was no mention of the fact that he looked different.

[01:02:21] Donna: I’m telling you completely different. Okay. No. So nothing together. 

[01:02:26] Rebekah: Controversial question. 

[01:02:29] Tim: Oh no. Who’s 

[01:02:30] Rebekah: the better Dumbledore? 

[01:02:31] Tim: Hmm. 

[01:02:32] Donna: I had issues with both of them. 

[01:02:34] Tim: Okay. Here again, I listened to a person do a review and I agreed with what he said. He said that the two Dumbledores filled out The whole book character of Dumbledore 

[01:02:48] All: that the first 

[01:02:48] Tim: one had these qualities showed these qualities as he acted in the second one showed these qualities.

They were all qualities of Dumbledore, so it was kind of like they showed one side of the character by this actor and another side of the character by this actor, and I’m not sure that I would say one’s better than the other, particularly. 

[01:03:08] Donna: Well, I’m sorry, Michael Gambon. was horrible. He was so horrible.

Oh, interesting. Okay. He was so horrible. He has not written to grab Harry and gobble to fire. That is not Dumbledore in the book ever. Seriously. And it drives me nuts because then as I’m going along studying this, I’m going to Michael Gambon. He read none of the books, which I know they weren’t required to read the books, I get that.

He read none of the books because he stated, every part I play is just a variant of my own personality. I get that because it was your doom. You were horrible to Harry and you should have read about Dumbledore and know that this isn’t, this guy loved Harry more than he should ever allowed himself to love a student and be concerned about his welfare.

Again, another beautiful unraveling of this love for someone that’s a pure thing. And even though you know his plight, you know what’s going to happen, all those things. I didn’t like Michael Gambon, so that was my answer. 

[01:04:24] Josiah: I think that Michael Gambon is more entertaining on film, but Richard Harris is probably closer to the book Dumbledore.

Um, but I do agree that there’s, there’s, neither of them really did a perfect job, and I do think that that’s gonna be, I think we mentioned in the first episode of Chamber, er, of Sorcerer’s Stone, um, the HBO Max series, the Dumbledore is probably where they can get maybe the most mileage out of improving on the originals.

[01:04:55] Donna: Yeah. So Richard Harris was a little odd as well. I’m not saying I thought he was spot on with Harry, but it all had to do with the way Gambon treated Harry. The rest of him, I could deal with it. He, he did fine. He like represented the character, but I just felt like he was too removed from Harry. 

[01:05:15] Rebekah: I would say my thoughts on Dumbledore, like who’s the better one, um, similar to some of what you guys have already said.

So I think Richard Harris has more of the magic twinkle of the book Dumbledore. So I appreciate that. But probably due to his age, he was very like. Frail seeming and Dumbledore supposed to be powerful. And I do like that Michael Gambon feels powerful when you get into the later films. It feels like he can like be someone that dump or that Voldemort would really have been afraid of.

And I don’t think that I don’t think Richard would have pulled that off very well. But The unfortunate part of this is that I think there was a perfect person who could have filled both of those roles and acted them both perfectly. And I know this because of something else he acted in, but Ian McKellen would have been a much better Dumbledore than Gambon.

[01:06:12] Josiah: Wait a minute, sir. Ian turned down the part of Dumbledore after Richard Harris died for two reasons. McKellen thought it wouldn’t be right. Knowing that Richard Harris had kind of rudely called him a terrible actor. But also, after having been Gandalf in Lord of the Rings, I mean, at the same time, basically, Yeah, true.

McKellen felt that living up to two legends would be too much. 

[01:06:38] Donna: I’m like, hello, Christopher Plummer, you could do it, Ian. You don’t have to live your whole existence with the man that wears the pink scarf and the funny tennis shoes. I’m just kidding. 

[01:06:48] Rebekah: Listen, if, uh, if, if Matt Damon can pull off acting in two movies as astronauts stranded on random planets, listen, you could have done it.

I’m just saying. I do think that was a missed opportunity to me, but you know, it’s okay. 

[01:07:05] Donna: So let’s get into some stats about this book and movie Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. It was released in book form on July 8th, 1999. The movie release, this time instead of releasing in the UK first, it was released at Radio City Music Hall in New York on May 23rd, 2004.

Been released in the UK on May 31st in 2004, and then in the US on June 4th, 2004. It is rated, the book is rated as 4.58 out of five on Good Reads. A little higher than, a little higher than last one chamber. 

[01:07:47] All: Yep. Mm-Hmm. 

[01:07:48] Donna: Rotten Tomatoes gave it a 90% fresh critics rating. Lter audience score was 86, which I.

It’s interesting that it’s a little below the critics, but that’s okay. It’s close. Uh, IMDB rated it 7. 9 out of 10, which is again a little higher than Chamber. Then let’s get into money. So production cost was 130 million. So they spent 30 million more. On this thing and it’s we’re filming them pretty close together.

So it’s not like years went between film Well, 

[01:08:23] Tim: we added we added the the big wooden bridge to the sets, right? 

[01:08:27] Donna: That’s true. We did change a lot of sets We did also go to some film locations where the first two were Mostly done in the leavesden film studio this one They went into scotland and london to do some filming so I could see where that I would also 

[01:08:43] Josiah: say there’s more CGI with the dementors and the wolves and the rat and the rat.

Yeah, that would make sense. Yeah, 

[01:08:50] Donna: yeah, and oh that’s right and they the time turner stuff Lupin for sure. Um, opening weekend in the U. S. was ninety three million six hundred eighty seven thousand dollars. The USA Canada gross was two hundred and fifty million one hundred thousand one hundred five thousand.

[01:09:11] Josiah: That’s more than the 

[01:09:11] Donna: international gross over twice that 556, 935. So that brings again, Japan contributed 

[01:09:21] Rebekah: greatly to that number. 

[01:09:23] Donna: Yeah, 

[01:09:24] Rebekah: Japan contributed greatly. 121 million was just Japan. 

[01:09:28] Donna: That’s really something. And then the total, uh, Fox Office take worldwide 807, 128, 888. I mean, for a single movie, amazing.

But if you think how this is builds and builds and builds, the money just gets into dollars that I can’t 

[01:09:48] Rebekah: buy them. 

[01:09:48] Donna: Which is the least 

[01:09:50] Rebekah: grossing? worldwide of all eight films, not including Fantastic Beasts. 

[01:09:57] Josiah: The very last one. 

[01:09:59] Rebekah: I’m gonna say 

[01:09:59] Josiah: it’s either the seventh one or this one. 

[01:10:02] Rebekah: The correct answer is this one.

Deathly Hallows part two is the highest, uh, box office. Which I was interested in because it doesn’t line up with like Hunger Games, how that worked out. But Prisoner of Azkaban, actually Prisoner of Azkaban made less money than the first Fantastic Beasts movie. It’s the only one that was under any of the Fantastic Beasts.

[01:10:23] Tim: Which is a little strange because I would imagine part of the reason that it had a bigger budget than the last one was they added some more Um, some more well known actors and actresses into the mix. Um, yeah, like, for instance, when Gary Oldman was offered the part of Sirius Black, he’d been over a year without a film, so he was taking time off to be with his family.

He said he needed the work, but his boys insisted. That he do it. 

[01:10:53] Rebekah: But he was a well known actor before then, obviously. But the other connection there is, this is the only one that doesn’t have a strong Voldemort presence at all. The only thing that, that it’s a, there’s a big plot point obviously in Wormtail escaping because he helps Voldemort get set free.

But it is interesting that this is the only one where Harry doesn’t encounter Voldemort. 

[01:11:16] Tim: Yeah. Couple of last things. The cast was told. That all the food in Honeydukes was covered in lacquer for appearance. However, this wasn’t actually true. They told that fib to keep the candy from disappearing from the set between takes.

Oh my God, no figure. You’ve got a cast full of children and teenagers. The last one I have. Uh, upon the first opening of the Marauders map, you see the name Newt Scamander. This was an easter egg for the expansion of the Harry Potter universe, where we find Newt is a friend to Dumbledore in the Fantastic Beasts film.

The plot is that Newt was visiting the Headmaster. 

[01:12:01] Rebekah: Okay, okay, you can’t do a 90 second thing to show us who the Marauders are for the next five movies. But you can give us an Easter egg for films that aren’t even in this series. Are you serious? Apparently, this, okay. That makes me mad. That really annoys me.

Shut up. You would be 

[01:12:24] Josiah:

[01:12:25] Rebekah: traitor. Okay. So before we give our final verdicts, I had one comment to make. The Harry Potter series has a total of four different directors over 10 years of films. Chris Columbus as discussed directed the first two. This is the first one with a new director. Alfonso Coran did this one to provide that darker tone, but only did this film.

Mike Newell directed Goblet of Fire, and it was stated that they wanted him to bring a more playful feel as the tone continued to darken in other ways. And David Yates was brought in. He ended up directing the final four films in the series, and he directed all three of the really, really bad Fantastic Beasts movies, which I will give to him.

I like his direction. I think that they were poorly written and idealized. Like, I think that the ideation sucked. I don’t think it was the David Yates problem. Well, don’t 

[01:13:15] Tim: you think part of the problem with that was the fact that those films were Were written as films. They were not adapted from books that had a fuller picture.

[01:13:26] Rebekah: Yeah, I think that they didn’t have a good 

[01:13:29] Josiah: rallying is different. A different person now. 

[01:13:32] Rebekah: Yeah, I don’t think that they like were good Because they didn’t have, like, strong backstory, and it, there’s a lot of reasons why. As Prisoners, the first film that would see a different director through this film series, what do you think about how this changed the mood and perspectives?

Like, are you glad that they switched directors? Do you wish they had kept it the same? Is one of them your favorite? 

[01:13:55] Donna: The subject matter is just a, it’s a deep subject matter. And at the same time, you’ve got to make that palatable. to a wide audience of people who haven’t read these books. So, as far as the way the directors did it, um, I agree that David Yates was great in those final four.

There were some changes we’ll get into in those episodes that I liked and didn’t like. But, um, overall, I feel like we’re own did did great with this. He was good to make the change. I’m glad to see that they kept the look of Hogwarts to be bigger and broader. I do do like that. Um, so if I have a, I don’t know if I have a favorite director, but I definitely liked what Quarren did with 

[01:14:43] Tim: this one.

I think I kind of, uh, really liked this movie. Uh, I liked Quarren’s, um, take on this, the way that it got a little darker, but not super, super, super dark. Um, and I also think that I liked. The next film, uh, because of the playfulness, I, I kind of needed that. Yeah. As things got tougher, as things got darker.

Yeah. Um, I think I liked the, I liked his take on it. 

[01:15:10] Rebekah: I would say David Yates is probably the one who I think caught the vision the best. So that he was able to do multiple movies like I will not spoil which one it is, but David Yates directed my favorite movie in the eight film kind of set here. But I would say this, the third one is my second favorite.

So I think Yeah, I think that a lot of them are equal. I think honestly, I like the other three directors probably pretty equally other than Chris Columbus did a bad job and I do not have any problem saying that I think that he did not have, I think that he did not use vision that I would have liked and I think that it wasn’t until the third movie until you kind of caught something.

I think mom said earlier, which was like, it wasn’t until the third movie where I was like, okay, I get it. Like, I see the characters that I expected to see, at least as a book reader. Um, going back and watching them, the first two are just so hard for me to watch, but like three through eight are fine. Like, I don’t have a problem watching them.

So, uh, so for my final verdict, I, like I said a minute ago, I think that this is my second favorite of all the movies. So I really like this movie, but I do think the book is better in You know, in this case as well, um, there’s so much more detail. We’ve kind of discussed it ad nauseam, but the detail that you get in certain interactions and understanding how different characters work together, I think is just unbeatable in the book.

Um, not a surprise based on what I said earlier, the scene in the shrieking shack is definitely my favorite. Um, it’s definitely my favorite. I don’t think that they handled it great because as we’ve discussed, I think there were a lot of missed opportunities. So I think if I had to scale it on like 1 to 10, I give it like a five.

Like it wasn’t terrible, but I felt like that got me into the world so much that I wish that they had done something. similarly to the seventh film where they do kind of the cartoon thing or any like a flashback sequence. Like, I think you could have done a lot with that in, in transitioning it to a visual medium that they did not do that I was disappointed with.

So that’s my verdict. 

[01:17:14] Donna: Well, my verdict on these two works, I do, Like the book. I like the movie in a, in closer proximity than I did book two. I think the book and the movie are closer for me. I definitely enjoyed meeting Sirius and being introduced to him. I enjoyed meeting Lupin, even though I did feel like Gary Oldman is just such a giant, um, kind of takes, he, he really, In the scene in the shack where he and Lupin and Snape comes in, and the three of them are there together.

Lupin plays his part fine, to see Alan Rickman and Gary Oldman there doing this. To me, besides the fact of knowing the characters, knowing the actors, you know. So I enjoyed meeting some of the new characters, but I’m going to say I enjoyed the book better. My favorite scene is kind of a, it’s a sad scene, but the scene in the book where Harry is learning the Patronus charm and he says to Lupin, I think I hear my mother crying and begging Voldemort not to kill me.

Oh, so hard. And seeing, reading this, and thinking about Harry dealing with this incredible pain, and, and understanding what he’s hearing, and then knowing one of the things he struggles with is even though he doesn’t want to hear her scream, he hears her voice, and he wants to hear her voice. And he’s got to be able to separate his emotions.

Because if he really wants to summon a Patronus, he has to get that out of his head. He can’t want to hear his mom and dad. And seeing that fulfilled at the end of the book, when he, they do the time turner, they get there, and Hermione’s like, what are you doing? And he’s like, I get it. It wasn’t my dad. It was me.

She said, What? Harry, how can you? And he said, I knew I could. I know I can do it because I’ve already done it. And seeing all that come together was just magical to me. 

[01:19:29] Tim: I enjoyed the scene in the book where Harry realizes that he he’s going to produce the Patronus there at the side of the lake. And it was him and not his dad.

Um, and It’s the Patronus and it’s the stag and all of that. I didn’t care for the fact that in the film, when he was looking across the lake, it was a stag coming. When he was on the other side producing it, it was just light. And I didn’t like, I didn’t like the way that was portrayed in the film. I just thought that was kind of strange.

You’ve already made it once. I thought a similar thing when I was watching it again. But I did, uh, I did prefer the, the book. Um, I liked the film and I liked the tone, the thing that it took. There were a couple places where I feel like it missed opportunities to give motivations to characters instead of just giving them things to do.

[01:20:27] Josiah: I guess I’ll try and be contrarian. They’re so close. There’s so many good and bad things in the book and film. I’ll just give it to the film. 

[01:20:35] All:

[01:20:36] Josiah: got a few reasons, I guess. Uh, for one, the fact that J. K. Rowling in the book, this is, I don’t think this is the film’s fault. So I’ll blame it on the book. The J. K.

Rowling introduced time travel into her series without caring about the consequences of what that means and doesn’t mean for the future. Um, 

[01:20:55] Donna: and also But they did destroy the time turner. 

[01:20:58] Josiah: Oh, and I wonder why she did that. 

[01:21:01] Donna: Yeah, exactly. 

[01:21:04] Josiah: And then she brought it back in Cursed Child, but anyway. We’ll talk about that for sure.

[01:21:10] Rebekah: Well, actually, this would have been the episode to talk about it, so let’s not talk about it. 

[01:21:15] Josiah: So another thing the book did that I remember reading the first time, and it’s fun to have these big scenes where you solve all the mysteries and you have people yell at each other, but I want to say it’s the Shrieking Shack scene.

In the book, it does go on for a long time where Sirius and Lupin and Peter and I guess Snape are just explaining things that the reader needs to know. And it does go on for a very long time. And it can be very satisfying when you like these characters and you like reading the book, but I feel like It might be JK’s weakest climax in terms of structure.

I can understand 

[01:21:58] Rebekah: that. 

[01:21:58] Josiah: Quirrell does do a lot of monologuing at Harry that really doesn’t really make sense for him to be saying all of these things that, all of these mysteries. That Harry and the Reader didn’t know. So, but that’s the first book. I would say that this one just goes on and on. So, because the film, although it cut out some stuff that I wish weren’t cut out, and it didn’t do Lupin justice, I do think the film’s tone and aesthetic and cinematography were really on a level that you don’t see much from the other films.

So there are a lot of good and bad things. I’m going to give it to the film on this one. 

[01:22:42] Rebekah: Well, folks, I believe that we are done with this episode. If you enjoyed it, please leave us a five star rating or review. Those five star reviews are really exciting. We see you next time. Celebrate them every time. Uh, you can find us on social, on X Instagram, and Facebook at book is better pod to send feedback, ask us questions to answer on future episodes and just, you know, have fun with us.

The hosts join our free Discord server. You can find it at the link in the episode description. And until next time, mischief managed. 

[01:23:17] Donna: Hello am 

[01:23:18] Tim: Aloha Nomura.

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