S02E17 — The Godfather

SPOILER ALERT: This episode and transcript below contains major spoilers for The Godfather.

Apple Podcasts • Spotify • Audible • Amazon Music • iHeart • Pandora

Featuring hosts Timothy Haynes, Donna Haynes, Rebekah Edwards, and T. Josiah Haynes.

This week, we made them an offer they couldn’t refuse—and then debated whether the book or the movie actually delivered. We’re talking horse heads, gender politics, and why Michael might be the least charismatic protagonist of all time. Spoiler: it’s a crime saga, but the real drama is in the pacing.

Final Verdicts

If you haven’t listened to the episode yet, we recommend waiting to read our verdicts. (But you’re probably grown, so do what you want!)

The book is bloated with backstories, side plots, and some wild diversions (looking at you, Lucy’s subplot). The film trims the fat, focuses on the family, and turns a chaotic crime novel into a cinematic masterpiece.

Donna: The movie was better.
– Book Score: 9.2/10
– Movie Score: 10/10

Rebekah: The movie was better.
– Book Score: 5.5/10
– Movie Score: 6.5/10

Josiah: The book was better.
– Book Score: 10/10
– Movie Score 10/10

Other Episodes You’ll Love

Full Episode Transcript

[00:01:41] Rebekah: Hello. Welcome to the book is Better. Podcast. Podcast. 

Whoa. Podcast. 

[00:01:48] Rebekah: We, oh, yes. Wow. I’ll be a member of the audience. Wow. Meow. Meow. Wow. Oh, noow. I can, I can tell how this episode is going to go. There are typically four of us, but the only one who has a brain left is out of the country. So tonight there are three people on this podcast, and then this, it’s fixing to get unhinged, you know, I think it’s, we review book to film adaptations.

I don’t know how much of that we’ll get to today. Spoiler alert, we are going to. Spoil The Godfather. The book was released a long time ago, as was the movie. So, you know, it’s not really my fault if I’m spoiling something here. We’ll probably get into, uh, stuff from later Godfather films as well as a content alert.

We typically have kind of a little disclaimer that’s like, you know, if you wouldn’t let your kid read the book or watch the movie, maybe don’t listen to, just, just don’t listen to this episode with your kids. So, uh, we like to introduce ourselves with a fun fact. And so as you give us your name today, here’s our fun fact name, A childhood Wrong Done to you that you would ask The Godfather to handle.

Like Bon. No need to name the perpetrator so I can go first. My name is Rebecca. I am the daughter slash sister of podcast. No need to podcast names. Uh, well, that’s not exactly what I meant. Um, I think that the wrong done to me was there was a lady who I believe is now passed, so I don’t feel bad mentioning this.

Uh, who once went to, I believe my parents to complain about something I was wearing at church that she felt was inappropriate. What was I wearing that was so inappropriate? A letter shirt. Oh, 

[00:03:34] Donna: well, 

[00:03:34] Rebekah: wow. Rebecca, 

[00:03:35] Donna: I’ll let you wear it out of the house. So it wasn’t too low cut, in my opinion. Well, it’s not MHO.

How’s 

[00:03:42] Rebekah: that? All I’m saying is that I would’ve asked the dawn to take care of it and uh, yeah, yeah. What do 

[00:03:48] TJ: you think the Dawn would’ve done? Um, I don’t, was that I don’t understand nice lady? 

[00:03:53] Rebekah: No. 

[00:03:54] TJ: Okay. 

[00:03:54] Rebekah: He would’ve done to her what she did to me. So he would’ve gone to her boss and complained about her shirts.

[00:04:01] TJ: Okay. 

That’s reasonable. 

[00:04:04] Rebekah: Thank you. So, um, my name’s Donna and 

[00:04:06] Donna: I’m Thena Donna. My parents knew stuff. I am the wife and mom of this family. We’re not a crime family, so. There were two girls in school with me that I genuinely do not ever remember having any issues with them, ever challenging them, ever anything.

And those two girls, like they wanted to like kill me in junior high school. I don’t know why they, they couldn’t stand me. And I, I still don’t know why ever to this day now I could go to the dawn to, to ask him to help me. And I, I don’t know what I would suggest he do, but my mom always said, I know they’re mothers.

They will never bother you. So maybe my mom was her own little 

[00:04:57] TJ: godmother. 

[00:04:57] Donna: Yeah. Yeah. That’s possible. And they never did. But boy, they didn’t like me. 

[00:05:01] TJ: Well, I am Josiah, the brother, son of this syndicate and syndicate. I wonder if you know that, what did that people ever do to me? I’m just, I’ve been trying to think this whole time.

Um, there was this one time in middle school when, and I was, you know, a little middle schooler. I had no self-confidence, no one does in middle school, so I didn’t, it sounds so stupid to say this out loud, but there was this, uh, one person, and I think we would be on much better terms nowadays if, if we saw each other.

But there was this one person and his friend. They were, I don’t know, I was a little dork. I, I think they were playing little pranks on me here and there, and they were like, Hey, you should come to our, you should come to our pool party. And even my dorky little dumb self in middle school knew that there wasn’t a pool party.

It was just like they were making it up. And it wasn’t even a good prank. But I think. And there, and he made fun of my shoes one day. This was in like social studies class. I think I would’ve, uh, I think I would’ve asked the dawn to put him in a pool. 

[00:06:03] Rebekah: All right. Well, as we get started, since this is your favorite movie, mother, would you like to read our plot summary?

[00:06:11] Donna: I 

[00:06:11] Rebekah: can do that. 

[00:06:12] Donna: The Godfather is a sweeping tale of power, family, and moral decay set within the world of the Italian American mafia. At its heart is Michael Corleone. A decorated war hero who wants nothing to do with his family’s criminal empire. But when an attempt on his father veto corion’s life threatens the family’s future, Michael is pulled into a world of violence, betrayal, and strategic brutality as he rises through the ranks to protect the Corleone legacy.

Michael sheds his old identity and embraces a colder, more calculating role, one that ultimately redefines the meaning of loyalty, justice, and sacrifice. It is a chilling portrait of how power corrupts even in the name of love. Ooh, deep. 

[00:07:04] Rebekah: So as we go through differences. In the book to film here, we realize that there’s very little, honestly, that is different in a a lot of ways.

So a lot of what we see that’s changed is more subtle, or the book just has more details about things that we see in the movie. So for that reason, we’re gonna go through characterization first. And therein lies, it’s gonna be like the bulk, bulk of the changes. Mm-hmm. And we’ve got a few separate like setting and plot changes that are broader than a single character’s differences.

But we will start with discussing Vito Corleone, the Godfather himself. The Godfather, also known as the Dawn, is mostly unchanged from book to film, but the book dives much deeper into Vito becoming the formidable head of a powerful crime family, including his killing, the first killing he did by the way of Fanucchi, how he structured and grew the family business and a lot more of his.

Early life, uh, director Coppola did explore more of Vito’s backstory, but not until the second film. 

[00:08:04] TJ: Rebecca, have you seen the second film yet? I don’t think we got to show that to you over the holidays. I have not. So, yes. Um, I did. Did you listen to the preface in this? Book. Yeah. Okay. So I think he mentions that Mario PSO was unconvinced of a, of making a sequel.

Mm-hmm. Maybe it was Francis Ford Coppola even. Mm-hmm. But, uh, when, when Coppola said, well, what if we explore more about Veto’s backstory that’s covered in the first book. Yeah. It, it started to click. And that is, I think, widely considered to be the better part of the second film. It’s, yeah. It, it takes place with Veto’s backstory.

[00:08:38] Donna: A lot of people say they like the second movie more than the first. I’ve heard, I’ve read a lot of that looking up trivia, and I’ve, I’ve heard other people say The first is so classic, but I, but a lot of people feel like the second movie just, it’s, it’s a completely, there are some of the same things and the theme continues, but the tone is different and he kind of goes back and forth in time, like you said, and 

[00:09:02] Rebekah: it, the first movie did win more awards.

Mm-hmm. But the second movie, in a lot of cases, has been cited as the best of the three, 

[00:09:08] TJ: did the first win more awards. That’s interesting because. One of my little piece of trivia is that, that year, I think that ca uh, cabaret won seven Oscars, but not best film. And I think that is tied for the most Oscars a movie wins without getting best film.

I think Gravity interesting in 2013 or 2014 might also have won that many. I’m, I’m not a hundred percent sure without winning. That movie was wild. 

[00:09:37] Rebekah: I like that one anyway. 

[00:09:38] TJ: Yes. But in the second movie, you don’t have Marlon Brando and he really is great. Uh, do you, have you heard of this? He once said, I think it was, um, in Time Magazine, he said that acting is an empty and useless profession.

[00:09:53] Rebekah: Oh well. That’s a weird statement for an actor to make. Probably. Yeah, 

[00:09:58] TJ: he was pretty, he was pretty good at it for it being so empty and useless. 

[00:10:02] Rebekah: Uh, another piece of trivia about Marlon Brando, the head of New York NBC TV makeup department from 1945 to 59, Dick Smith used Plumpers to give the wide Judd jaw to the dawn.

You know that memorable jaw? He had a dentist create a temporary bridge to clamp to brando’s lower teeth with plastic lumps on the outside, and that’s what gave him that just wild, wild jawline. 

[00:10:28] TJ: I thought it was cotton balls. Well, you know that cat, the, the famous image of the dawn mm-hmm. Holding the cat in that first mm-hmm.

Film scene. First of all, there wasn’t a cat in the book, was there? 

[00:10:40] Rebekah: I don’t think so. No. I don’t, you 

[00:10:42] TJ: know, where there was a cat, there was a stray in the old film Ways studio that they apparently captured, literally and forced to act 

[00:10:52] Donna: on Don Cor Leon’s lap. Somebody called Peta, the was wandering around the set.

I know. Is that hilarious? And it’s just him sitting there petting that. And the cat was so docile there in his arms. The cat 

[00:11:03] Rebekah: looked, Welch trained for what was happening. Like he took it off his lap and he said it on the desk. And I noticed when we watched the movie again, the cat like immediately sits down like riely on the corner of the desk where he’s thrown instead of running away.

Yeah. He’s a 

feral cat.

[00:11:24] Donna: Well, that cat held by the famous Marlon Brando could have been sitting with several other actors that were considered for the role. Uh, let’s see. They looked at almost every well known older Italian actor at the time. Um, the two actors in Maine contention besides Brando were, uh, Richard Conte, who played Barini in the movie, Don Barini, and then Johnny Marley who played Waltz, the movie Jack Wa Oh yeah.

Jack Waltz. Yeah. Um, George C. Scott, who had just, uh, done the highly acclaimed Patton, was also high on the list. And they others also directed by Francis Ford Cope. Oh, yes. And or was it just written? There were rumors that even Sinatra wanted the part. Wow. So, what do you think? 

[00:12:19] TJ: Oh, sorry. Patton was written by Francis Ford Colos.

Mm-hmm. It wasn’t directed by him. 

[00:12:23] Donna: Uh, yeah, there’s there’s other fun trivia about that too. It’s interesting. 

[00:12:28] Rebekah: I think that the casting was amazing. I mean, what you talk about it every episode, it’s one of the most important things. You know about anything that is put into a visual medium? I think that Marlon brand, I mean it’s hard ’cause like you can’t imagine somebody else doing it, but then if somebody else did it, you couldn’t have imagined Marlon Brando doing it, I guess.

Yeah. So I understand that, but I think it might 

[00:12:49] TJ: not have been as iconic. Yeah. 

[00:12:49] Rebekah: He made, I think a lot of this feel as iconic as it does. Also, I just wanna kind of say we do have several pieces of trivia throughout as we talk about characters, et cetera, and part of that comes from a really cool, um, thing I got from mom for Christmas this year called wia, and it is not called Wikipedia.

Oh my gosh. Can you imagine your like non-tech, like grandmother being like, I made this website just for you so that you would know anything you needed to know about. I wrote it just for you and thinking that you own Wikipedia 

[00:13:25] Donna: that was, um, that didn’t, um, didn’t like one of the guys do that to Creed in the office.

Series. He set up a Word document for him and told Creed he was doing, um, yeah, Ryan made, Ryan did it. And it was 

[00:13:39] TJ: Creed’s thoughts? Creed’s. It was Creed’s thoughts. It was a blog. It was going out on, 

[00:13:43] Donna: he thought it was going out online. Yeah. Wow. And he said, creed, thoughts, 

[00:13:47] TJ: www.creedthoughts.gov, dot www thoughts.

[00:13:55] Donna: And then he, I remember his face in the little thing ’cause he looked at this camera and was like, can you, can you imagine if his thoughts were actually out on online? So anyways, well I 

[00:14:04] Rebekah: just wanted to mention this ’cause I thought it was a cool gift. Amazing. I found an annotated screenplay of The Godfather and so when we watched the movie this weekend, mom actually had it sitting out writing down things that were like noted.

And she followed the whole screenplay through the entire movie, which was very cool. And hard not to talk, as they were saying. Yeah. She, she made a comment as it went on, as like the movie started and Josh goes, are you gonna talk the whole time? 

[00:14:35] TJ: Well, Michael Corleone, he is kind of the second main character.

Uh, Vito takes a back seat in the last third of the book, and Michael is already the fish out of water at the beginning, sort of, he’s not been in the family business even though he knows about it. Mm-hmm. And so he already serves as a little bit of an audience avatar, which is usually a main character role.

And as he moves into the Godfather position, I think he, he’s a co main character with Vito. He’s pretty unchanged from book to film. The the biggest kind of expansion of his story, I would say, is a deeper retelling of his time in Sicily. His relationship with Apollonia and her family. In the book Apollonia was pregnant at the time of the car bombing, which Michael finds out after her death and deepens his grief in the film.

It’s unclear how long he’s away, though. The novel defines that a couple of years. Has passed. Mm-hmm. I think that it’s fun with him and Apollonia. There’s not like a lot of events added in the book or taken away in the film, but there’s just so much more detail. Yeah. Like when they, they keep harping on Michael that, oh, he’s got the Thunderbolt.

That’s what they kept calling it. Right? Oh, we, yeah, we know that Thunderbolt. We know what that Thunderbolt means. That’s what they kept calling it. I think that maybe even, uh, and maybe we’ll talk about it with when we talk about Kay, but I think that Michael’s relationship to Kay Adams is slightly different in the film as well.

[00:16:01] Donna: Then we have Sonny Corleone. His lusty personality and backstory are explored in much more detail in the book, such as. A lot of comments on his physical endowment and his rampant womanizing. The book does outline his first foray into the life of a criminal when he saw his father kill a rival, saw him kill Don Fucci, uh, and he joined a 1930s gang war to prove himself as a general who was unafraid of brutality.

[00:16:33] TJ: I, I, I think Mario PSO makes an interesting comment about that brutality. I th the narrator of the Godfather book, which it’s an Omnisci narrator. Mm-hmm. It’s not from one perspective, but, uh, he mentions that Sonny’s brutality is the o is ruthlessness perhaps is the only thing that Vito is the only weakness that Vito had, but Sonny made up for it.

[00:16:55] Rebekah: I do think it was interesting too, to hear them describe the other sons. Because there’s three of them. Yeah. Is is Fredo one of the kids? I literally still, he’s the disappointment. It’s so hard for me to like accept him as one of the kids ’cause Michael and Sonny are so different. But I did think it was interesting to hear like Michael was the rule follower.

Fredo was just kind of an idiot. And then Sonny was just the one that was always in trouble. And I think it was that he was 16 when he start, when he did the first crime that, that they outlined, I think was an armed robbery. And the Don got so mad and, and then kind of calls out like, what were you trying to accomplish here?

And so I thought it was, it was very interesting to have them lay it out that way. I, I think Michael transitioning into someone who was like more of who the, the Don wanted Sonny to be, that was actually something I had a hard time suspending my disbelief for. Like he does a great job of portraying it as an actor, but it wasn’t until my second time through the movie that I believed it.

And I don’t know 

[00:17:54] TJ: if that’s 

[00:17:54] Rebekah: just ’cause I don’t watch a lot of older films or with 

[00:17:56] TJ: vi Vito trying to get. Michael to do? 

[00:17:59] Rebekah: No, like, well, the, his transition, like, ’cause Sonny’s like Michael’s transition. Yes. Sonny’s clearly like mm-hmm. Kind of like this from the start. But the problem was that he was too hotheaded and things like that.

But like, it was so crazy to me, like who Michael became, and I don’t, I had a hard time believing it, but I don’t know if that was just me or 

[00:18:19] TJ: mm-hmm. Well, it’s pretty sudden, but I, I think it’s a, a mixture. Mm-hmm. I think the book Yeah. Does a pretty good job of like explaining it, but also leaving.

Something up to your imagination where it’s like when his father’s life is threatened. Yeah. He’s like, oh, well I don’t want my father to die, so I have to do what’s necessary to keep my father alive Is like what he tells himself while at the same time, McCluskey having broken his jaw. Mm-hmm. Even if he doesn’t want to admit it and he tells Sonny, I’m not doing this to get revenge on McCluskey.

I think we as readers are supposed to think, 

[00:18:53] Donna: yeah, 

[00:18:53] TJ: but you are a little bit. 

[00:18:55] Donna: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think too, you notice that he’s up to the point he goes to the hospital. He’s Michael, the civilian vet. They call him a civilian to the 

[00:19:06] Rebekah: family, which is crazy, but yes. Yeah, I 

[00:19:08] Donna: mean, he, it, it’s funny because he’s a civilian, but he just came out of the, the service and so he’s come back, he’s got plans, he’s got a college education.

He’s, you know, he’s with Kay. He’s distanced himself, but as soon as he goes into the hospital and sees no one there, immediately, he doesn’t have to think about what he’s doing. And I thought it was interesting that they even contrasted that with Enzo who came in to visit unexpectedly. He didn’t know what was happening.

He was terrified. He didn’t know what to, he just knew he was willing to stay there to help Don Corleone. But he was, other than that, he was petrified. But Michael was re resolute. No questions. And so you see the immediate likeness to his father. Yeah. And how the dawn would act, as opposed to Sonny who just jumps at every opportunity to beat up something or, you know, kill somebody or whatever.

So 

[00:20:04] TJ: I think that Sonny is a really interesting character of, I, I think the whole book, the whole story serves as an interesting case study on hereditary rule. Mm-hmm. On trying to pass down your empire to your kids. Mm-hmm. But your kids are simply not equipped. And how long would it take Vito to accept that?

As long as Michael still remains a civilian, quote unquote, who doesn’t want to be part of the family business? Vito has to find another solution Besides Sonny or Fredo or, or Connie, I guess. Yeah. Connie 

[00:20:40] Donna: and, and I thought this was interesting at this point, it didn’t dawn on me until we watch it this weekend.

I thought, wow. The Dawn and Michael are never shown being unfaithful to their significant other. Like when he went to Sicily, he assumed, and the the book makes these even more clear. Yeah. He assumes that he’s done with Kay. So him, that she’s read with abalone, going to abalone is really not being unfaithful to her because even his mother would say, find yourself another mind.

You know, Michael, he’s a, as he’s done, he’s over whatever, but he and the Godfather both are portrayed very clearly as faithful to their wives. But the other three children are all basically, they’re so promiscuous. All three of them are, and so I thought that was Yeah, they’re, yeah. So, but, but it’s also, I very acceptable.

I wanna 

[00:21:33] TJ: talk so much, but, and can liken it, but Mom, you see like a couple episodes and Rebecca, you’ve not seen any of it. Yeah. 

[00:21:39] Donna: But you could liken it to a lot of what goes on though. Yeah. But I just think it’s interesting because the men, especially in the book, they make a very clear statement that it’s kind of expected that men are gonna be, Italian men are gonna be with a bunch of women, and the wife’s just supposed to go with that 

[00:21:54] TJ: in, in Sopranos, there’s a word for it.

I don’t think they use it in the Godfather, but GMA is the Italian Laso Nostra term for, it’s your side piece. And it’s just 

[00:22:05] Donna: an, it’s just what it is. Yeah. 

[00:22:07] TJ: Sonny’s Omaha is Lucy Mancini. Do you wanna talk about her Mancini? I think the, uh, the bridesmaid that Sonny gets with during Connie’s wedding? At the beginning, just a briefly seen character in the film, but in the book, I would go so far as to say she is annoyingly ongoing.

Yeah. She has a side character with multiple chapters that cover her post Sonny Life, and Sonny Dies after the halfway point of the book. Mm-hmm. And there are multiple chapters given to what Lucy does. After Sonny’s Sonny’s death, the Corley owns Take Care of Lucy, which isn’t, it’s nice. I, I understand a little bit of showing Lucy to show what effect the Corleone have on just normal people that are outside the family.

They move her to Las Vegas with a stipend and a job. She falls in love with a book only character, Dr. Jules Siegel. I don’t really like that name because the only Jules I know is a lady and I kept getting JUULs and loose

views. 

[00:23:07] TJ: The Dr. Jules Siegel is the same doctor who not only addresses Lucy’s private medical issues that I don’t think we’ll discuss in a very much detail, but also performs surgery to restore Johnny Fontaine’s voice.

Johnny Fontaine, we’ll talk about more in a second. But Johnny, Dr. Jules, Lucy, and Johnny’s friend Nico all kind of have their own side plots that coalesce in a plot cul-de-sac that is vaguely interesting for sure, but does not have much to do with the climax of the, it 

[00:23:41] Rebekah: definitely seems like a no payoff moment.

Yeah, I moment 

[00:23:43] Donna: I wonder, is Mario Puzo? Yeah. I wondered if Puzo had thought about writing a follow up into Las Vegas and he was introducing them or something, but 

[00:23:53] TJ: I don’t think that’s what the intent was. The things I’ve read online, ’cause I, it, it stumps me. It’s, it’s not the worst thing in the world. Like, it’s not horribly written.

It just, it’s so much of it. It’s just so unnecessary. And so from what I’ve read online, people think that maybe it was because people, at the time of the book’s publishing, it was calmly held gossip that Frank Sinatra was where he was because of the mafia. And so Mario Puzo wanted to insert a, an obvious Frank Sinatra insert because people, although they might not in theory, know people like the Dawn, they would know of people like Frank Sinatra.

And so that POV would be more relatable, more interesting to audiences. I don’t think that that holds up. Mm-hmm. Today, and I don’t know how it was 60, 70 years ago either, but it, it seems to be mostly a distraction. Lucy and Johnny’s side plots that come together. But Lucy, yes. Her private medical issues, um, they concern something.

One of the main reasons why we warned you at the beginning not to listen to this with your kids. We’re not gonna talk about it, but boy oh boy, does the book get anatomical? 

[00:25:07] Rebekah: Oh my goodness. I just thought, you know, in the movie. Mm-hmm. Because I had seen the movie before we started the book in the movie.

It’s like, okay, it’s a lot, but it’s like, it’s fast, but they’re brief. There’s a lot of, 

[00:25:22] Donna: but they’re brief. 

[00:25:23] Rebekah: There’s a lot of comments. That’s what I was gonna say, but there’s like brief scenes to skip over. Holy cannoli. Actually, I literally was like, alright, well here we go again. Leave the sex. It just, it’s funny, funny.

So this was something I noticed, I commented this to mom earlier today. Not about the sexual content, but this book is written, like you said, it’s an omniscient narrator. It feels very biographical. Like it reminded me, which I kinda liked, it was, I honestly didn’t hate it. Like I, because of the, the way the story is.

Like, I didn’t hate it. I didn’t hate it. Um, but it was very biographical. And so it was interesting because a lot of the ways that the narrator explained some of the stuff, even the stuff that’s like incredibly graphic, like whether it gets into the sex stuff or the anatomical sex stuff, whatever. And even some of the, the killing and violent things and whatever.

It was weird ’cause it felt so clinical in certain ways where there were a lot of times where even the like s muddy stuff, it didn’t feel like emotion. Yeah, it felt emotionless. It wasn’t all. Now there were definitely some things I skipped over that felt like they were definitely more on the smut side, but some of it just felt like it was trying to describe a thing that happened, you know?

[00:26:33] Donna: Well, uh, also this is kind of a, a tell, a telling thing of how society has come along, good or bad, whatever you think about this. But I didn’t know until last night when I was following along with the, with the annotative screenplay. That the, the actress that PA played Apollonia, who is the only nudity, shows the only nudity in the film.

The only, that actress was 16 years old. And I was like, I knew, she was like, I knew she was a young girl that Michael had met or whatever. And they don’t, they don’t make her look 16 in the movie. So it’s not something where you go, oh, it’s, he’s marrying a teenager. But I thought it was interesting that the actress now young actresses have played in, you know, r rated films and all, I mean, they’ve done those things.

It’s why, why not just find somebody of age? But I thought that was interesting. 

[00:27:27] TJ: I don’t know yet, but is Francis Ford Coppola not a good director? Hmm. Does he simply choose good source material? 

[00:27:41] Donna: And he was very close to Puzo. He, they became very good friends through this. Mm-hmm. So Puzo had a lot of input into, into the thing.

He didn’t do it all. I mean, whatever. But I 

[00:27:52] TJ: liked the preface in the afterward it. Mm-hmm. It was very good information to know about the background of the making of the book and of the film. 

[00:28:00] Rebekah: So, moving on to our next, uh, character change. Is Tom Hagen the Conci? Is that how you say that? Conci? I’m gonna ask that.

Conci Conci. I’m going to ask that a lot. There are so many words that I’m, like, I, all of the names and words are definitely us need to tell our best Italian going together a little bit. So, 

[00:28:19] TJ: did you know that Godfather, the, the Godfather novel? Mm-hmm. I’ll put this trivia in right here. Conci, uh, is noteworthy for multiple reasons, but including introducing Italian words.

To an English speaking audience, including Conci, capo, Erta and la. 

[00:28:39] Rebekah: Oh, interesting. Mm-hmm. I mean, I 

[00:28:41] TJ: do 

[00:28:41] Rebekah: enjoy that, 

[00:28:42] TJ: Rebecca. Pretty fun. What do any of those Well, conci 

[00:28:45] Rebekah: means counselor, I think. 

[00:28:48] TJ: Wonderful. Capo, 

[00:28:50] Rebekah: uh, family, business, somebody’s hat,

[00:28:53] TJ: cap, capo, you know, from music. Oh, 

[00:28:55] Rebekah: like a cap O 

[00:28:57] TJ: dc Koda coda, or 

[00:28:59] Rebekah: Cap O is the thing you put on your, your guitar.

[00:29:01] TJ: D dc dc Kota, uh, the sea. Oh, okay. 

[00:29:05] Rebekah: Which is head 

[00:29:06] TJ: or top. And regime is just regime. So the God godfather 

[00:29:09] Rebekah: is that person, and the little regimes are, 

[00:29:11] TJ: oh, it’s the person underneath the Godfather, Tessio. And. Got it. Have their own little regimes, uh, Erta as the code of silence or code of honor. Laso Nostra is the word that the mafia would use for the mafia.

It literally means our thing. Wow. 

[00:29:29] Rebekah: That’s so funny. Our interesting. All right. I love it. So, back to our book, Hagan’s pretty similar to the film counterpart he plays, uh, but in the book, Hagan has a pretty compassionate moment towards an old friend. Uh, he asks Michael if Michael will spare seo. We don’t see that in the film.

Um, in the film, which is, yeah, I don’t know. In the film, he just. Says that he’ll do it right? It’s just like very, 

[00:29:56] Donna: no, he’s like, he, he’s like selling Tess, I can’t, I can’t save you. I can’t save you. We’ll also talk 

[00:30:03] Rebekah: about Kay Adams, uh, Michael’s girlfriend who becomes his wife. Um, we’ll talk about her a little bit later, but Hagan mediates like Michael and Kay getting back together after he returns from Sicily.

Um, and as the story comes to a close, he’s the one explaining to Kay in the book Why Michael, quote, unquote, had to kill Connie’s husband, Carlo. 

[00:30:21] TJ: Yes. Yeah. And Tom says that if she tells him. If she tells Michael that Tom told her that. Yeah, that he’d be a dead man. I was like, mm-hmm. Oh, very interesting.

Yeah, I think that that was one of the things that the movie changed, I thought was good. Yeah. I thought the movie made some weird changes, but that one was a good show. Don’t tell change. Mm-hmm. Whereas in the book, maybe that’s how it had to be told to the audience in book format. 

[00:30:47] Rebekah: In the movie Hagens just basically, he’s stoic.

He’s really faithful. He’s not a wartime conser, but he’s there. I did think it was like an interesting thing that he was Irish, right? He’s not Italian and that was this. 

[00:31:00] TJ: He is German. German Irish, so this is an ongoing thing that he’s like kind of an outsider, but 

[00:31:04] Rebekah: somehow in this very all important role, which is also interesting.

[00:31:09] TJ: I felt like his point of view was what we were getting the most of at the beginning of the novel. 

[00:31:14] Donna: Yeah, that’s true. And also at this point, you mentioned he was German Irish. The movie is so full of racial slur. I’m almost surprised. I’m kind of surprised. Streaming services and stuff, they use it, they’ll play it and play it Uncut because Tom says, I watched Good 

[00:31:32] TJ: Fells on YouTube premium, uh mm-hmm.

Over Christmas time or like before Christmas. Yeah. And they bleeped all of it out. There was not an option for me to un bleep the foul. Yeah. Which is really weird 

[00:31:43] Rebekah: because that’s like a big deal thing that studios have pushed against in terms of profanity. But then apparently it’s not the same when it’s slurs.

[00:31:52] Donna: Yeah. The, the slurs they use, you know, you hear those and it’s almost just, you almost pass it over. Maybe in the context of what they’re talking about or whatever, but in the, the, um, the, the section where they’re around the table and talking with all the dawns and they come together to make this truce, and they’re like talking about drugs, and one of them says, you know, give it to the dark, the colored, you know, they’re whatever.

And it, every time I hear that, it’s like, it’s jarring to me because it’s so, you know, it, it, it’s so unfortunate. But let’s be clear. Like you said, Rebecca, you’ve said before people feel these ways. People say these things. Now, does that mean we need to say them all the time or entertain the conversation?

No, but um, when you’re portraying it like this in something where you are trying to. Create an a, an atmosphere, you know, it, it is reality. 

[00:32:48] Rebekah: Yeah. 

[00:32:49] Donna: Um, and, and as Anthony that is, yeah. Well Anthony, I love Anthony 

[00:32:52] Rebekah: Gola said this to me ’cause I was talking about, I personally avoid movies with lots of sexual content for the most part.

Like, that’s just a thing Josh and I have been doing for a really long time. And we were talking about whether he does that. ’cause sometimes he’ll watch movies that I know. Some people will be like, oh, that’s questionable. And he’s like, look, even the Bible talks about some really intense, or you know. Some topics that are like, things that are not celebrated or talked about as like, oh, this is good.

You should do this, he said, so I kind of use it like I listen to the Holy Spirit, but he’s like, I use it as, okay, like something being portrayed, even if it’s despicable or deplorable, like it doesn’t mean that I should ignore it and like not watch something just because it is a disagreeable thing that I don’t want as part of my life, which I thought was an interesting perspective.

Yeah. I’m probably butchering the way he said that. Yeah. 

[00:33:41] Donna: So as we, as we continue on talking about our, our folks in the, in the movie, I. Um, there’s a little trivia there around Tom Hagen’s role. You know, Tom’s one of the non, one of the, the small number of non Italian, non Italian people in in, and, um, Rudy Val.

Now, I would not expect either of you to know Rudy Val, and that is perfectly okay. He was born in 1901. Uh, he was a famous singer. He was a saxophonist. And, uh, my mother and brother could have both, just told you all kinds of things about Rudy B. Um, but he wanted the role of Tom Hagen, but he was like 70, almost 70, so they couldn’t consider him.

Um, but there was some specifically other, he used to 

[00:34:23] TJ: be about Sonny’s age. Yeah, 

[00:34:25] Donna: you’re looking at, you’re looking at. Boys that are in like young men, really you, you have to keep it in that age just to work it out with the godfather’s age and everything that’s gone on. But there were some other well-known actors that you will recognize.

Uh, Martin Sheen, Jack Nicholson, who we think of them. I think of both of them as, yeah. Older adults. Right. But this was in the seventies. And Peter Falk, who portrayed Colombo in the movies and television, and even James Conn, who my annotated screenplay said, uh, notes said apparently auditioned for every male role.

Um, they all sought out the role of Tom Hagan as well, but Coppola didn’t, he didn’t, he wanted no one else besides Duval. And so they tried, but he was, he was sold on him. And um, interestingly enough, he received $36,000 for the role in the first Godfather movie. And he was in the second Godfather movie.

They got to the third, the making of the third one, which personally I don’t consider a movie. But, um, they got to the third one and wanted, Tom, wanted Robert Duvall to come back as Tom, and he said, Nope, you’ve paid me a third of Pacino salary. Wow. Wow. I’m not gonna keep doing that. And because, you know, Tom has a prominent Yeah.

Role in not, obviously he’s not the Godfather. Um, but to think of a third of the salary, that’s just, just, it’s hard to even con uh, wrap your head around that. Especially in this day, we’re supporting, uh, um, main roles and supporting roles. Are paid so highly. Yeah. For big names. It’s just, and Robert Duvall was, um, it wasn’t like this established role or anything at this point.

He hadn’t, no, I don’t think so. No. 

[00:36:11] TJ: Coppola himself seems to have said that without Robert Duvall’s participation, the third movie felt incomplete. Well then don’t make it or just pay him 

[00:36:22] Donna: or pay him more with, I think would make, which make some money on these. So, 

[00:36:26] TJ: my gosh. So, you know, who got cut from this film?

At least the second half. Mm-hmm. Johnny Fontain. So features a pretty heavily, in the beginning of the film is one of the three people who asks The Godfather for a favor at Connie’s wedding. Mm-hmm. This, uh, Hollywood singer is the godson of Vita Corleone in both, uh, book and film, much expanded role in the book.

We, uh, he is at the center of the early film and book plot line with the. Offer that CHT be refused and the Horsehead. Mm-hmm. And Jack Waltz, the book however, describes his life, his personal struggles, uh, in great detail, including significant problems with his voice. Yeah. Uh, in a vocal surgery. Thank you, Dr.

Jules, to repair it. Similarly, we learn more about Fontaine’s ongoing antagonist, Jack Waltz, the vile Hollywood movie mogul, as well as Johnny’s drunken friend Nina Valenti. Now Nino is another of Vito’s Godchildren, right? Godsons. 

[00:37:31] Rebekah: He and Johnny came up together, I’m not sure. And they sang a lot together before Johnny made it big, but I don’t remember.

Valenti is also 

[00:37:38] TJ: one of Veto’s godson. Yes. I think that Johnny, whenever his luck was starting to turn around, he brought his friend Nino into Hollywood because he thought it would please the dawn. I. To help one of his godson, which is taken out of the film 

[00:37:54] Donna: trivia on this a little bit about the horse head scene.

In an interview with NPR Mario Puzo said the horse’s head scene was like from Sicilian folklore, but instead of a horse. A dog’s head was nailed to the door as punishment for not paying a debt. 

[00:38:12] TJ: He better not have been a good boy. 

[00:38:16] Donna: Yeah. Um, but Coppola hated the scene. Um, and, and just was so reticent about it.

But he knew after he, between conferring with Puzo and talking to some other people, he knew there was no way he could delete it because the fans would go crazy if, if you didn’t put it in there. And so he, it had to be done. Right. Well, you know, we just talked about having a 16-year-old actress in a kind of promiscuous.

Role. Um, this gets even more fun. Uh, despite the protests from animal rights activists, they went forward with the plan. They tried a stuffed head that looked fake and dusty, and they, uh, so they decided to procure one from a pet food slaughterhouse in New Jersey. 

[00:39:01] TJ: Yes, I, I know plenty of pet food slaughterhouses.

Oh, they’re 

[00:39:06] Donna: all over. We just never hear about them from anyone. Um, Coppola later stated in a variety interview. That there were many people killed in that movie, but everyone, this is a quote, but everyone worries about the horse. When the header Rod it, it, it upset crew members who are animal lovers who like little doggies.

What they didn’t know is that we just, this is, that is still a quote, right? This is like little doggies who like little doggies. What they didn’t know is that we got the head from a pet food manufacturer who slaughters 200 horses a day just to feed those little doggies. 

[00:39:46] TJ: What is happening right now?

[00:39:50] Donna: Do dogs eat horse horse meat is, yeah. 

[00:39:53] Rebekah: Why 

[00:39:54] Donna: couldn’t they? I don’t know. Is that, I mean, we’re in the 1970s, so Rebecca, do dogs, dogs eat horse 

[00:40:00] Rebekah: meat? I, 

[00:40:01] Donna: I’m, it’s mean dogs 

[00:40:03] Rebekah: probably would eat any kind of meat in front of them, I guess. 

[00:40:06] Donna: Yeah. So I was reading the, I was reading that quote from Kala. Yes. So TJ’s like what’s happening right now?

Well, but they had, they had, um, animal rights activists all over the place, but they, um, but they coppola just, I mean, he, he had no choice but to do the scene. 

[00:40:26] TJ: He had no choice. Interesting. 

[00:40:28] Donna: Yeah. I mean, that’s the way, honestly, the trivia, the stuff that I researched said that they basically, people just said to him, fans of this book, which was wildly popular mm-hmm.

The book was wildly popular. Fans of this book would, would just have, would never rest movie. I mean, it is an excellent in the 

[00:40:45] Rebekah: movie, wild, but Excellent, like portrayal of what they’re portraying. Yeah. So I don’t, I’m, I get that. Another, uh, Johnny Fontaine. Fun trivia fact. His character was actually seemingly inspired by Frank Sinatra, which Josiah mentioned a little bit earlier.

Um, but Frank Sinatra’s career had been revived by his role in from here to Eternity in 1953, after the Godfather was published as a novel, Mario Puzo, the author, attended someone’s birthday party not related to this book at Chasins, a famous restaurant in West Hollywood that was open from 36 to 1995 with Frank Sinatra.

The host introduced the two men, and Sinatra began shouting insults at Puzo, chronicled in Puzo’s, the Godfather Papers and other confessions. He said the most hurtful part was a northern Italian Sinatra threatening him puzo a Southern Italian like quote, Einstein pulling a gun on Al Capone. It just wasn’t done.

End quote. It was reported that John Wayne, who was also at the party, offered to punch Sinatra if needed. It’s so just like what It’s happening. What is happening? 

[00:41:56] Donna: It’s, yeah. It’s insanity. 

[00:41:58] Rebekah: It’s funny. I agree with you. We forget, 

[00:42:00] Donna: I don’t know. We forget how small the world was. 

[00:42:03] Rebekah: We have, yeah. It’s not so small as much like, you know, population’s been grown for a while and it’s, it is so funny.

But you forget how small these circles were in terms of these household names and there’s so much like gatekeeping that’s not exactly the same. Like we know a lot of celebrities. Mm-hmm. You know of a lot more celebrities now because of the internet and social media and stuff like that. But before it was like it was this relatively small group of people.

[00:42:27] Donna: Then we move on to Kay Adams, who is Michael’s girlfriend, who then becomes his wife in the film. Kay, who was an outsider to the mafia world, grows increasingly uneasy about Michael’s criminal life by the final scene of part one, she’s left in like doubt, fear. She’s like freaking out a little bit the door.

You know, kind of closes on her questioning of Michael’s honesty in the novel. However, Kay is eventually far more accepting of his new role. After Michael’s exile in Sicily, she remains in contact with his family and mama. You know, Corleone secretly corresponds with her and she still loves him. Um, and I love my mama Corion continuing to say.

And it’s funny ’cause Joe Montia read the audio book I listened to and hit him saying in Mama Corion’s voice, oh, you just need to forget about a Michael. You need to go. Yeah, no, you need to go on. Find you a good boy. It’s, uh, I think that’s interesting when Michael returns and resolves family wars. Uh, Kay marries him, and though she briefly leaves in shock on learning the truth of his crimes, she comes back in an added final chapter.

Kay converts the Catholicism and goes to church to pray for Michael’s soul imitating mama’s devotion to. Dawn. In other words, the novels, Kay becomes the classic Dawn’s wife who accepts the grim reality. But in the film, she’s portrayed as more skeptical. She’s left distressed by Michael’s lies. You know, she and, and, uh, TJ had said something earlier, uh, we talked a little bit, just she and Kay or Kay and Tom have an interesting conversation at the end about.

Tom basically justifying what they do. I mean, that’s what he did. It, it, it makes sense to him that’s, this is the way things have to be, to be, to care for a family, to protect the family, to keep a family together. And I, I, I think it’s just a fascinating take on what we choose to believe and how passionate we become about it.

Um, and we have to be careful that we, we don’t fall into the trap of believing things that are so far out just to, you know, to make our craziness make sense. I guess. 

[00:44:49] TJ: I think that Kay is portrayed a little more feminist in the movie. 

[00:44:56] Rebekah: Hmm. Yeah. How so? I agree. Definitely. Yes. Yeah. 

[00:44:59] TJ: I think that she believes I.

Well, in the book, Michael says, we will not be equals, and Kay accepts that. And I don’t think Diane Keaton’s Kay Adams would’ve accepted that. Mm-hmm. If it were so bluntly put to her. She seems like she’s, 

[00:45:15] Rebekah: yeah. 

[00:45:15] TJ: A little bit of a go-getter, little bit of a, you know, I don’t need a man. I’m just, but I love this man and I would, I would like to marry this man, but we are going to be equal.

Yeah. So it’s kind of the vibe I get from her in the movie, but not in, in the book. It does seem like she’s a little more willing to be subservient. And, you know, it’s a little, uh, I don’t know, but it, it’s a little non feminist. Her description, while Michael is in Italy of her, you know, still being devoted and not believing 

[00:45:47] Donna: Kay in the film, she would never have gone and prayed for Michael every day.

She would never have given confession for him like that. I, I just don’t believe that. And I would have to wonder if that was. Zos choice. I mean, if that, sorry, if that was Coppola’s choice, or if he and Keaton had a conversation, because Diane Keaton has been a feminist, her adult life that I know of her, she’s always, you know, champion feminist causes.

So I wonder if, if that was kind of a decision they made to, to portray her a little differently. So who knows? But she was surprised by meeting Luca at the wedding, wasn’t she? 

[00:46:22] TJ: Yes. She was very surprised by Luca. You know, he’s similarly portrayed from book to film. I thought that he made a lot more sense to me in the book.

I keep getting confused over the course of my life since the first time I saw Godfather. I keep recognizing the name. Mm-hmm. Luca Braze. Luca Braze. Luca Braze. And then I see the Godfather movie, and I think, why do I know his name? He’s barely a part of this at all. So he, he has this superhuman, murderous ability that’s described more in the book.

For instance, Luca once murdered. His own newborn child and the infant’s mother in a fit of rage as told by the midwife. The dawn once acknowledges that he may have feared his enforcer, but um, Luca was unendingly loyal to Don Vito. And that’s, that’s how it goes. And I think that it was still questionable in the modern storyline of the book.

Why, why is there so much emphasis on Luca Brazy, but the fact that he’s given more backstory? Yes. When Michael goes to Italy and in Vito’s backstory and mm-hmm. The thing that actually makes it work for me. Is that the book establishes just enough that Dawn Vito was only able to succeed as much as she was with a man like Luca Broey.

And then Michael gets a o basically. Mm-hmm. Book only, not quite, but basically book only character Al Neary, who we’ll talk about in a second. Mm-hmm. So Michael and Al Neri is like Veto and Luca Brai as chief enforcer. I think that’s a, that’s an interesting payoff. That does work better in the book than in the movie.

[00:48:00] Donna: Yeah. And I, I think in this instance, you know, we bring up, I bring up casting, casting, casting all the time. Um, I felt like Lenny Montana is the actor who, who portrayed Luca. And I always thought, uh, I, I don’t remember seeing him in anything else. I, I don’t know if he acted in anything else, but I could, I remember from the beginning of, of watching the film, I just thought, wow, what a good kind of enforcer guy.

He doesn’t come across as super intelligent or anything like that, but at the same time you see his like fierce loyalty kind of fear of the Godfather. But Lenny Montana was a world champion wrestler named, and who came up with this, we will never know. I don’t wanna know because I would have to tell him, this is a dumb name, but his champion wrestler name was the Zebra kid.

Yeah. I don’t know. 

[00:48:52] TJ: Surely it was his out, 

[00:48:54] Donna: it had, it had to be. What would you put on him? I mean, look at the guy. I can’t 

[00:48:58] Rebekah: believe you’d be so mean. Or Lenny. Oh, yeah. So you’ve mentioned it a couple times, but, uh, Carmela Mama Corleone is one of the side characters. Again, not a whole lot different, but we lose a little bit of like, the depth of her from the book to film, which totally made sense.

She’s more present in the book throughout. And there’s one notable scene, uh, in the novel that is cut from the film that I think gives you just a lot more depth about her. So after Michael Fleece, the Country, mama invites Kay for lunch. She’s the one that it’s all secret, like it’s not supposed to be a big deal.

Invites her for lunch. And she says the mom’s quoted the line several times, but it’s not in a way that’s like, you gotta forget my son. It’s like. Sweet girl, like, go find yourself a good man. Right? Not that she thinks Michael’s a bad man necessarily, but she’s just trying to encourage her, you don’t have to get involved in this family.

You know, hay was not part of the Italian families. Like this wasn’t, she didn’t have to do this. And so essentially, other than that, she, I think you mentioned like. You know, pray for the dawn and, and she’s just a lot more of like a, uh, supportive and caring character. And she’s a sweet person in the film, but she’s kind of like a background character.

You just see her as like the fun mom who sings at the wedding and we like goof off. Like it was more of that kind of thing where she’s just in the background, uh, in the film, which I think was fine. Like for the record, I think that that was just a change that made sense. Yeah. You know? 

[00:50:29] TJ: Yeah. I really liked how we could go into more detail between her and Kay in the book, but you need to cut some things.

I think it was worse in the movie, but it was understandable. Oh, a fun little trivia. Guess what other Mafia Matriarch is named Carmela? Is it 

[00:50:46] Rebekah: from the, the one you keep mentioning? I’ve forgotten the name of the Sopranos. 

[00:50:50] TJ: Tony Soprano’s wife is named Carmela 

[00:50:54] Rebekah: Old Choice Cotton. Hmm. It is 

[00:50:57] TJ: very Dr. And they say, car 

[00:51:01] Donna: Carm come over here.

Calm. Yeah. Calls are calm. Yeah. 

[00:51:04] TJ: Well, I mentioned Alanie, which is symbolically Michael’s, Luca Brai. This is Michael’s chief enforcer in the final act. Barely introduced in the movie the novel provides him with a backstory. This is, this is all in the last oh to 15% of the novel, but the, uh, the novel provides him with a backstory.

We learned that Neri was an NYPD police officer. He was known for, you know, brutal street vigilante justice. He murdered a pimp in anger. He was facing a long prison term. The Corleone actually pulled strings to have him released and then they recruit him effectively giving Michael a loyal hitman akin to Luke Lei.

In the film, Al Neri does appear, I don’t even know if they name him out loud, but he’s the one who I don’t think so. Assassinates Barini at the end, but uh, casual viewers wouldn’t even catch you. That is the detailed origin and the idea that Michael now has his own Luca Brai is only in the novel. The film streamlines this by showing Neri carry out orders without explanation.

I think Al Neri kills Mo Green in the novel as well as Bartini.

[00:52:14] Donna: Yeah, I think, uh, that sounds right. The famous I shoot scene. Right. Another interesting character that we do get a little bit of, get his name several times I should say, um, is Fabrizio. He was a bodyguard for Michael in Sicily and during that time he ends up portraying Michael by planning the bomb that would kill Apollonia.

A bomb sadly meant for Michael. Uh, the novel explicitly shows Fabrizio getting his come up, his come up in. Later on, however, Michael tracks him down in the States, he shot to death in a pizza parlor for revenge. Uh, the first film shows Fios. Betrayal, but does not address him being killed. So they leave his story where he runs out of the compound just before the bomb.

That’s all you see of him. They did film that assassination in a scene for the Godfather part two, but it was not included in the final cut of the movie. I guess just bringing him back into it, I guess. I think enough went on in the, in the second movie that, that makes sense to me. 

[00:53:24] Rebekah: We only had one setting change and honestly, it’s a broad one.

It’s not really one, it’s a lot. But um, again, as we’ve kind of stated, they don’t make huge, massive changes to most things in the film. Oh, no. 

[00:53:38] TJ: Yeah. I mean, it’s a good novel in the first place. Yeah. But the novel is broader in both, uh, place and time. More extensively exploring events in Hollywood, Los Angeles, uh, Las Vegas get a lot more biographical retelling of darn Corleone origin story.

Although that is explored in the sequel film and Vita’s experience in an early 1930s Mafia War. Both telling from kind of his point of view, but also a little from Sonny’s point of view at another time in the novel. The film concludes in 1955 with Michael’s rise as the new godfather ending before the family moves their business operations to Las Vegas, Nevada, which, uh, to, to be quote unquote completely legitimate a, a move that was foreshadowed and discussed in great detail.

I think that the novel just has more detail and it has the room to go into more of these nitty gritty facts than the film does, and I think that’s 

[00:54:32] Donna: fine. Yeah, I, I think Coppola captures what he needs to capture. There were a few things that I had to pick it apart. I could, but 

[00:54:39] Rebekah: I think the film, if I’m not mistaken, covers 1945 to 1955 was what I had read, and then the book starts in the twenties.

Technically, I, I think it like, takes off when Don Corleone is, I’m, I’m trying to, that makes sense. But I think it starts off in the twenties and it ends. What, maybe a couple of years after the film does. So, all right. What about a few different plot and timeline changes not related to the characters we mentioned?

[00:55:08] Donna: Uh, I’ll start the beginning. At the beginning of the film, undertaker America, Bon Erra asks Don Corleone to punish the boys who attacked his daughter in the film. Vito agrees and we cut away. The next we hear of it, uh, is Vito later saying to Bama, Sarah, that I cannot, that I cannot do, implying that he did.

Have them beaten. The book actually depicts his revenge, um, poorly owned dispatches as men to track down the two men. They’re savagely beaten to a pulp, quote unquote, by professional thugs as a punishment. The aftermath is described. Their faces are left under recognizable and monastery satisfied until he’s called on to perform his reciprocal favor, which I thought was interesting in the novel, that they made this a very, he was afraid.

He, he knew he’d agreed to the favor. He couldn’t get out of it. But I thought it was interesting in the novel that it was very clear he was kind of scared because then he didn’t want the other families coming after him.

[00:56:14] TJ: I mean, and I loved, I don’t know if this is what you’re about to say, but I, I loved that the favor they eventually asked of him was not illegal, and it wasn’t something Yeah.

Scary him doing his, they’re asking him. For, I think Vito says multiple times, I’m not gonna ask you to do something that you would, that you don’t wanna do. Yeah. Which sometimes he does not mean that. But sometimes he does mean that. 

[00:56:36] Donna: Well, what stuck out to me for Bon Erra is that he goes on and on at the beginning when he is pleading for his daughter, and he, it drives me crazy, this line where he is.

He’s like, she was beautiful. She will never be beautiful again. Like that’s all that he cared about, that his daughter was beautiful and it, it’s so off it again, it’s another off putting comment. To the fact that everything was based around her beauty. Not that he, his daughter was still alive. Thank God she’s alive, you know, but it was more, oh no, she’s not beautiful.

I just, that it was very, um, that was very frustrating for me. And maybe it was there to make you a little more aggravated with him and kind of building on his weakness versus the Dawn’s strength or something like that. Um, I don’t know, but 

[00:57:26] Rebekah: I think it was interesting, it threw me off just a slight amount as at the beginning of the film, or sorry, at the beginning of the book where they talked about the boys going to court and all the stuff that happens.

Like, I literally was so confused. I was like, what’s going on? And then I remembered, oh, it’s this Bonno Air thing. Like that’s why. So they also actually discuss the, the boys more, um, a little bit in what they do. So. Um, another change in the film, Michael returns from his exile to si Sicily without an explanation.

You know, the fact that he is implicated in the murder of a police captain all of a sudden no longer matters. He like fled the country and then comes back and no one explains how that worked. So, um, they do actually explain it in the novel, answering the question. So the dawn pulled some political.

Strings and he got a fall guy, um, a Sicilian gangster to confess to Michael’s crimes to deflect attention away from his son. And that’s what allows Michael to return back to the States, um, after he loses his new wife. And then he, he’s, you know, widow where widowed, I don’t know if that’s a word. And then comes back, um, and reconnects with Kay and, you know, obviously takes over the family biz.

[00:58:38] TJ: Yes. This is one of the strongest points from the book for me that I fully understood and trusted that Vito Corleone knew exactly what he was doing at all time, even if he was backed into a corner. He always had a plan. He always saw everything that was going on, everything that needed to happen. Uh, I got, I got chills.

When he negotiated for Michael’s return, and he basically says to all the families, Hey, I will bow to you all. I will accept defeat if no one goes after my son, Michael. And at the end of the chapter he basically says, I don’t know if it’s to Tom or to his internal monologue. He basically says, yeah, he knew at that point what needed to happen.

And me knowing the end of the film, I’m like, did he know at that point that he needed to plan for Michael to become the boss? And after Veto’s death to kill the heads of their enemies in this grand scheme? And I’m like, oh, 

[00:59:40] Donna: interesting. 

[00:59:40] TJ: That is several steps away. That’s impressive. That, and it’s even cooler.

I mean, it gave me chills in so many ways. And one of them being that Vito could have done that and just gone back on his word, but he couldn’t have, he would never have gone back on his word. And he gave his word that he would not seek retaliation for Sonny and for the attempt on his own life. And because he gave his word, even though it wasn’t good for business, he was gonna keep his word.

But the unsaid part was after I’m gone, I will train up Michael to get the revenge. It is time for me to fade away and me to strengthen up my son. Wow. Well, talking of that ultimate plan, the, uh, probably the most famous difference, uh, is how the film handles the elimination of the rival mafia head. Versus how he does it in the novel.

In the movie’s Climax, Michael arranges for all his enemies to be killed in one masterful sweep. During the baptism of Connie’s baby, a cross cut montage showing the heads of the other New York families, Barzini, Talia Raki, and Mo Green shot almost simultaneously in the oh and also Carlo Rizzi, which is also in the novel.

The same kind of vendetta occurs, but with important differences. Mo Green is killed. Earlier in Nevada book, Michael directly ordered the murders of only two rival Dawns, not four, who directly opposed him, Barini and Talia. The others fell in line. I think the novel pretty explicitly shows that Talia, the Talia’s, explicitly backed sozo and the hit on Don Corleone, but only with the backing of the more cunning and dangerous barini.

So Talia, uh, was basically the front, the face. To say yes, we’re the ones doing this stuff. Whether it’s because they were in a worse position or they wanted to look tougher. While the barzini, I suppose, were more intelligent or cunning in the novel, Connie’s baby is not baptized at a church. Michael specifically arranges it with all of the costs incurred to take place at the mall in his, in his house, or in the that cul-de-sac of houses.

The films baptism sequence at the church explicitly portrays Michael as utterly ruthless while hypocritically blaspheming his vow as godfather to Connie’s newborn because part of that se whole sequence is Michael knowingly swearing to protect the newborn while killing the newborn’s. Wow. Father, 

[01:02:10] Donna: ugh, insanity.

[01:02:11] TJ: I think that Francis Ford Copel, ’cause I’ve also seen his Dracula and it, it, it does not shy away from demonic feeling. Tone. I wonder if Francis Ford Coppola is just willing to go dark and gothic in a way that others don’t typically go. Yeah, I really don’t know that he’s a consistently good director.

’cause I’ve also seen some of his other works, like his most recent magnum opus he released last year, megalopolis, have you heard about this? Mm-hmm. It was supposed to be Francis Ford Coppola’s Big Farewell to movies. Oh wow. And it was the, it was farewell, silliest movie. I haven’t seen it. I wanna see it ’cause it sounds really bad.

So I would not be against seeing some of his other films. I preferred the book ending. Uh, I still, there’s still problems with it in by today’s standards, I think. But him taking out all of the other heads of the New York families, I just feel like is unjustified. Something that, okay. In the book, he takes out Barzini and Talia, the heads of those two families and a couple people who are already infringing on his territory or something like that.

Every person he murders, there is a direct provocation that he is getting back at them for, 

[01:03:31] Rebekah: which is more like the dawn is described. Mm-hmm. When Veto’s in charge. Mm-hmm. 

[01:03:36] TJ: In the film with the information we are given, it seems simply like it is a power play to say, I am in charge, which is not what Don Vita would’ve done, first of all.

Second of all, that would be a provocation that would deserve people coming after Michael. The, the book plot also has the following flaw, but something that Game of Thrones goes into deeply is the cycle of revenge never stopping. And whereas the book climax within the context of La Casa Nostra and Business, it could be said that Michael was simply doing, getting, I don’t wanna say revenge, but he was getting back at people for doing bad things to him and his family.

And it was very targeted to only, only the people who did him dirty, not Kyo and Straie, for instance. Whereas, uh, in the movie, I think it would just lend itself more towards the, there’s always a, it’s, it’s the kymera where you cut off the head of a New York family and then someone’s gotta take over that family.

Is it gonna be like the head kae? Is it gonna be their son? Is it gonna be their brother or something? Who will they want revenge probably, you know? So I think that the book is more believable and more in line with. What Don Vito would’ve done. And I think it’s overall better. And I think the film, having the scene at the church is darkly beautiful.

But other than that, I am much more impressed with the, uh, books climax. 

[01:05:12] Rebekah: I think it would’ve made, I know this is not actually the plot. I think it would’ve made more sense if Sonny had originally ended up as the dawn and he would’ve done that power play. Like I could have seen him doing it more. It felt a little more outta character because Michael seemed to be more like his dad and more like reasonable, yeah, very pinpoint 

[01:05:34] TJ: accuracy.

Exactly what needs to be done. Yeah. And only that, 

[01:05:38] Donna: I think it’s his dive into madness. I think it’s the beginning of his devolving. Into madness because I don’t know that I, I’ve always just kind of seen it that way. Like he just Yeah. Like he’s not finds a blood lust or something that, that Yeah. 

[01:05:54] TJ: I think that’s an interesting point, mom, that whereas the book is telling us Michael is the new Don Vito, whereas you’re saying maybe the film is saying Michael is worse.

Yeah. Michael is crazy and there is no Don Vito. Yeah. Michael is the new dawn and he is, he has Don, Vito and Sonny combined. Yeah. And 

[01:06:18] Donna: Sonny’s Sonny is, he flies off the handle quickly. He, he can’t reign in his anger. Michael can reign in the compulsiveness, he can reign that in. But when he executes something it is swift and.

Definite and deep and you know, that kind of thing, so, mm. Yeah. 

[01:06:39] TJ: Well, did you know that in the role of Mo Green, Alex Rocco said The Godfather is what made me go from hamburgers to steak. 

[01:06:48] Donna: Alex Rocco had done some things, but the role vaulted him. I mean, it just exploded his career. Oh, I see, I see. Yeah, and I thought another thing about putting it here, I would say that his death, it was that of all the deaths, you weren’t really, really, I.

Involved with the other people that got killed. You knew them and you knew how, where they fit in the story. But Mo, you had seen he and Michael kind of clash. You’d seen that he’d beat Fredo around a little bit. Mm-hmm. Smacked him around a little bit. So I wondered if his Yeah, I wondered if his death was kind of like that.

Oh yeah, he got it too. They got him too. I don’t, um mm-hmm. Yeah. But, uh, the last little change is, is kind of a, not necessarily a change as much as kind of a recognition that the line leave the gun. Take The Cannolis was not in the book, but I think he says Canlis. I don’t remember it yet. It is Cani individual.

Is it cannoli? He doesn’t. That might be the plural. Yeah. The line is not in the book, but it became one of the most memorable lines in movie history. Throw out a couple other lines real quick. Mm-hmm. Before we go on, 

[01:08:00] TJ: offeree Can’t refuse. That was in the original novel. Okay. Uh, revenge is a dish that is best served cold.

Is that the first time that 

[01:08:08] Rebekah: was said? Was this movie? ’cause I noticed that line. I think 

[01:08:10] TJ: in the preface he mentions that. 

[01:08:13] Rebekah: Also, this is not in any way a super well-known thing, ne in the same way. But we are, I’m rewatching Grey’s Anatomy right now, and we just watched, oh gosh, how can I say this without spoilers.

We just watched a memorable episode from early in the show where a person was discussing what happens when someone is the victim of a bomb. And they say, they call them pink mist. Like that’s all that’s there. And I noticed in the book specifically, I don’t remember if they say it in the movie, but um, I believe in the book, I think so they mentioned Pink Mist, but I believe it was in the context of when they like shot someone in the head.

And so I was like, that’s an interesting phrase to then crop back up in modern whatever. But 

[01:08:56] Donna: uh, another one that comes up in, well, it comes up in, you’ve got mail when Tom. Hank’s and me, Ryan are, oh, it’s not business. It’s personal. It’s not, it’s not personal. It’s business. Sorry. That’s right. It’s not personal.

It’s business. And then she’s like, what is everybody’s reference to the Godfather? What is that? And he was like, and he goes through a few of ’em and he goes, going to the mattresses Monday month going to the mattress. Yep. Month to Thursday, Wednesday, Friday, Sunday, Saturday when he’s trying to teach her English and just like, I know.

I know. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, there’s s Sleeping with the Fishes. 

[01:09:28] TJ: So Fish. Oh yes. Sleeping with, that’s right. 

[01:09:31] Rebekah: Okay. So it says, Mario told me that all of the great dialogue, those quotable lines he put into the mouth of Don Corleone were actually spoken by Mario’s mother. Yes. An offer he can’t refuse. Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer that was there.

Mm-hmm. Revenge is a dish that tastes best when it is cold. That’s how the line in the book is delivered. And a man who doesn’t spend time with his family can never be a real man. Among many others were sayings he heard from his own mother slips. 

[01:09:58] Donna: Oh, that’s awesome. 

[01:09:59] Rebekah: Mario later wrote, whenever The Godfather opened his mouth.

Yeah. In my own mind I heard the voice of my mother. I heard her wisdom, her ruthlessness and her unconquerable love for her family and life itself. Don Corion’s courage and loyalty came from her. His humanity came from her. 

[01:10:12] Donna: Interesting. So The Godfather book was released on March 10th, 1969. Uh, the novel remained a little trivia here on the New York Times Bestseller list for 67 weeks over a year.

That’s really cool. It doesn’t say it was taught like number one, but on the list it was selling. It sold over 9 million copies in two years, making it the best selling published work in history for several years. To follow, which I thought was pretty cool. I didn’t look farther into that. I should have.

That would’ve been interesting to know. But, um, uh, then the movie released three years later on, uh, March 14th at the Lows State Theater in 1972, and then on March 24th of 72, just 10 days later, released in the rest of the us. The book rating on Good Reads is 4.4 out of five, which I feel is good. So movie ratings, the Rotten Tomatoes rating for CRI from critics is a 97% still holds that.

The IMDB rating is 9.2 out of 10. And I, I thought about that a lot of, we haven’t done a whole lot of episodes where the IMDB was that high, which whatever that means for IMDB, but mm-hmm. Flixter audience scores 98. So it’s holding, it’s, it’s holding its status. 

[01:11:36] Rebekah: Although Josiah has said before ratings of stuff that’s this old on the websites, like these are usually going to be really high or really low.

There’s not really a middle. Yeah. Because they weren’t being reviewed. Like the books or the films reviews rather are not the ones that were happening at the time. So, you know, 

[01:11:55] Donna: uh, the production costs, this is amazing. This is crazy to me. Six to $7 million. Uh, that’s, 

[01:12:02] TJ: which I believe Al Pacino was paid 6 million to be in the second 

[01:12:06] Donna: film.

Yeah. Hmm. Well, not surprising, uh, now an opening weekend in the, in the US the film only made $302,000, so that could be a little scary. I don’t know how they judge their profitability at this point in 72, but, but the USA Canada gross. Was 136 million. So it picked up popularity from the first weekend and then the international gross was 114 million at, for a worldwide total of $250 million.

Um, so I can see why they could offer Pacino the 6 million for the second movie. And think about that. Robert Duval making 36,000 for the first movie. That’s kind of insane, bizarre. Um, mm-hmm. The film is rated r I’m gonna move on into some interesting trivia. Um, we’ve talked about some, you know, fascinating things so far and we’re not gonna stop there.

So, some practical jokes or many practical jokes I should say. We’re frequent, they were calm on the set during filming and most noted, some would say the most legendary prank that they pulled was mooning. Oh my. I, I have to say, before I go on into detail, Hmm. I wonder if it was such a male heavy cast that this was a thing.

’cause this is a guy that mooning iss. A guy prank. Mm-hmm. Not that girls don’t do it, but it is kind of a stupid guy prank Anyway. Just throw that out there. Uh, James Kahn and Robert Duvall were the first to Moon Coppola, Brando, and Cato, who was another, I think he was in crew trying to break some tension during a rehearsal.

For the first scene in the film, these antics were mostly met with stairs and some uncomfortable silence as stuff I read. There were some of the, the cast and crew that were not crazy about this, uh, but still they, the pranks continued like they caught on. And so different people, different actors were trying to do stuff to, to kind of best each other.

James Conn said in a 1972 Time Magazine interview, my best Moon was on Second Avenue. Bob Duval and I were in one car and Brando was in another, and we drove up beside him, and I pulled down my pants and stuck my behind out of the window. Brando fell down in the car with laughter. End quote. Now, I mean, you gotta think about this.

They’re driving down the street on Second Avenue in New York City. Oh my. Just today. Can you imagine every camera phone on Second Avenue would be out catching James Khan’s butt stuck out a window. 

[01:14:48] TJ: Oh 

[01:14:49] Donna: goodness. That was, uh, it’s so, let’s see what else I remember 

[01:14:52] Rebekah: in Greece. Like what in the movie Grease, they made all these jokes about like mooning and all this stuff.

And I remember even thinking as a kid, like, why would you show your butt? Like I, it just wasn’t a thing. By the time I was a kid when 

[01:15:05] Donna: I was, when I was growing up, that was one of the most crazy naughty things you would do. And yeah, and I agree with you. The scene in Greece, you’re like, what? Um, a little more on that.

The most surprising cheek show was from the usually uptight Pacino between takes while wardrobe was getting a smaller collared shirt for him. He’s sitting behind the desk during the scene, right? And he gets up from the desk. So while they’re off looking for a, a shirt that fit better, he took his pants down.

They call action. He steps out from behind the desk to a roar of laughter. But according to my amazing annotated screenplay, the Winning Moon came from Brando and Duval, who dropped their shorts in front of 400 cast and crew members during the wedding photo shoot. This earned Brando, the award for Moon Champion, a title that was engraved on a heavyweight belt and given to him near the end of film.

Oh my gosh. I can just imagine this film full of these very famous actors that people hold in such our regard, but we have to keep in mind that they are just guys. That’s wild. They’re just a bunch of silly grownup boys who were having fun. 

[01:16:18] TJ: Oh, goodie. Hey, was the Oscar statue sitting on Waltz’s bedside table?

Coppola’s best screenplay Oscar for Patton received a month before the scene was shot. What. Merely a prop. No one will ever know 

[01:16:33] Donna: the stupid thing. It left it up in the air and I watched the scene. When I saw this following along the copy, I watched it. And then there’s pictures in the book of him, uh, of the, and the Oscars prominently sitting there, but I never saw, I never saw it.

I’m not observant like that. So I guess a bloody horse head in the bed from 

[01:16:52] Rebekah: a slaughterhouse in Jersey. See, okay. The thing that kills me, sorry, I need to go back to that. It was a real head of a horse. Yes. You from a slaughterhouse in New New Jersey. I just, I like pet food slaughterhouse. No, like I get it.

And I, I’ve read, I’ve read it before and then you said it, and now I’m like sitting here and I’m like, that wasn’t, that wasn’t a prop. They freaking, I remember like the first time and second time. Watching that and being like, that looks so real. Like, how did it was, it was real the whole time. Anyway. Uh, during the shooting of Vito Corleone in the film, he was shot with a camera in, you know, in the movie he was shot with a gun, but in, in the film it was just, okay.

The enormous crowd that it gathered couldn’t keep their composure and they kept clapping or shouting with every take and like cheering that he was being shot when they finally achieved the perfect take. Marlon Brando bowed to his cheering fans. How many coats 

[01:17:56] Donna: did they have to shoot on? I don’t know.

Hmm. I mean, I guess they wouldn’t have to change his under clo, his undershirt, his, like his dress shirt or whatever. But he had a coat on, like, did you just have coats waiting in the wings? Grab another coat. So that was a 

[01:18:09] TJ: fake injury that they applauded. Here is a real injury. Pacinos jump into the getaway car at the restaurant.

After shooting McCluskey, the, uh, the shot resulted in a sprang to ankle ligament. Oh. The driver was not instructed to stop, to let Pacino jump in the accident. Put Pacino out of work for a few days, forced him to keep crutches in a wheelchair nearby for rest. 

[01:18:36] Donna: Did you have to tell the driver to stop when a guy’s jumping in the car?

Would it just not make sense that you would stop? It’s, and of course, I’ve, I, this of course makes me think of Tom Cruise smashing his ankle on the side of the building, that he jumped from another building, not quite as. I mean, Pacino’s, his stunt was a little tamer. He is just jumping into a car from a street that the car’s sitting on.

He wasn’t jumping across the top of a building, but still, you know, it’s the price of fame, I guess. Um, so I found this one to be very, a very interesting. Kind of cruel trivia, but, uh, casting had to find two strong men to take veto upstairs at his home when he came from the hospital after he is recovered from these gunshot wounds.

So they, they found, they actually had to go and look for two guys. ’cause act, you know, you’d want it to be like nurses, but they couldn’t do that. It had to be men to be able to carry him, right? So the guys had to stop midway up the dec up the steps. And I want to explain this a little better. They, Coppola had said to them, you can’t stop going up the steps.

Okay, that’s very important. We just wanna make a straight shoot. You’re just gonna walk him up there. They got partway up in a shoot in a, in one of the takes, and they had to put him down. And so they actually went off. Found two guys in the crew that were like beefier, beefier guys because the first two had trouble carrying him up.

And, I mean, Brando’s a normal sized guy, right? Mm-hmm. Where, what’s he gonna weigh somewhere between 175 and pounds or whatever. You’re carrying no steps. So then they bring two other guys in while they’re off the set. Getting these found, these two other guys, everybody had kind of cleared out for a minute.

Brando had somebody help him put a bunch of sandbags under him in the gurney underneath it. So then they bring to the guy, uh, in, and they carry him up the top. They make it all the way up to the top. They put him down and they’re complaining and huffing and puffing, and then they all laugh and they’re like, you know, like, aha.

And then, you know, they, oh, look what I did. But then Brenda did not realize this, but when they weighed the, took the sandbags off, counted what he put on, plus his weight, it was like 500 pounds that the two men had to carry up the up the steps. I thought that was very interesting. And it’s kinda weird, like again, like TJ said, two or three times what is going on right now.

Yeah. I mean, did he not think about what he was putting on there in addition to himself? But 

[01:21:08] Rebekah: speaking of things he put on in addition to himself. Uh, to make himself cry more effectively. Brando held a container of spicy squid out from the camera’s view while leaning over Sonny’s body at the funeral home.

So that happened. Wow. Marlon Brando did that. 

[01:21:25] TJ: A really empty, useless profession. Yeah. 

[01:21:29] Donna: Uh, so they’re, um, aficionados of the film think that all the oranges in the film, and I’ve never heard of this, never thought of this before, but they felt like it symbolized or foreshadowed death. I guess this is kind of fan fiction or supposition.

So there’s a couple just, they’re like one line things that are in the book. And so I’m gonna read a couple of ’em to you. Tessio, who ends up being a traitor by the end. Right. He’s introduced to the film as, uh, as he throws oranges an orange into the air at the wedding, at the wedding when, uh, wife, son mentions Sonny’s Unmentionables.

A bowl of oranges is on the table in front of her. Sonny gets killed. Uh, a bowl of oranges is prominently displayed on Waltz’s dinner table in California. Don Corleone buys a bag of oranges before he shot, and then he knocks over oranges as he falls down. Fredo stands next to a bag of oranges when he visits his father on his sick bed.

At the meeting of the five families, there’s oranges in the balls in front of Lia and Barzini, and then Vito has an orange peel in his mouth when he scares his grandson just before he has a heart attack and dies. So either there was a secret death thing with connected to oranges, or there happened to be oranges in season when they filmed, so they ended up being the easy thing.

Keep in mind the flowers at the funeral scene. The flowers for the funeral cost over 10,000. I think I’d find the best cheapest fruit that’s in season. I’d put it on all the table. 

[01:23:09] Rebekah: I think, uh, also, speaking of oranges though, first of all, I love, this is another thing they say in graze a lot, but if you hear hoof beets don’t suspect zebras.

It’s like, well, maybe they were just in season, like maybe calm down. However, yeah. Our former podcast guest, Nathan, is like obsessed with oranges and their symbolism in his life. So like, if you ever wanna just like make Nathan like cry at you, you should buy him an orange and just hand it to him. Just don’t say anything.

Just like hand him an orange, like with both of your hands. 

[01:23:42] Donna: And don’t mention the Godfather in Death 

[01:23:44] Rebekah: thing. No, probably not. Mm-hmm. No. Okay. Won’t. Okay. 

[01:23:48] TJ: Well, you know, Mari PSO said in an NPR interview, have you heard about this before? I used it. No Mafia man ever used the word godfather in that sense. 

[01:24:00] Donna: It’s really hard to think about that not being a term, right?

Mm-hmm. It’s, it’s very, it’s, I ev every, I’ve read that once or twice and just thought that’s all we’ve really known. That term is just, that’s what it means. Um, anyway, so in the last little section of our trivia. Um, there were questions about whether the Dawn’s death since an elaborate funeral scene was already planned, should go on, and just it costs more money when you’re kind of restating that he died, which, like for me, I would not have even ever thought of that because it’s another different scene.

But then when I read it in that perspective, I could see, okay, why would you do it like that when you’re gonna show? He clearly died, he’s in a coffin, but Coppola had planted some tomatoes. Why doesn’t say, why, didn’t say why in the same area as the wedding scene set. So in a very unplanned event, he pulled man, uh, he pulled Brando in.

Onto the set. He got some cameramen, took it and just said, let’s just go for it. Let’s take the shot. So the gag with Brando, putting the orange peel in his mouth like a monster was all impromptu. None of that was written, it wasn’t planned. The little boy, the child was totally unaware and reacted just perfectly.

Um. And after, you know, after it’s in the film and, um, the, the details I was reading said that Coppola was like, cut, just get it, save it. ’cause we, and uh, but a lot of fans cite that scene of one of their favorites in the whole film. And, um, Coppola liked it because it gave you that sense of this hard man who had been involved in so much criminal activity and so much violence in his life.

You see a juxtaposition of him being a loving grandfather that just could play with the child and enjoy, enjoy just the banter with him and, and teasing and all those things. So 

[01:26:03] TJ: I’m so glad that they filmed the scene of him dying and at the funeral, if they were gonna film one or the other. 

[01:26:10] Donna: Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. 

[01:26:11] TJ: I had a suspicion before finishing the novel and now seeing you say this, that I assume it’s from your annotated uhhuh godfather book. I a few, like a week or two ago, I was trying to Google, it was kind of hard to Google actually, but I think I asked Rebecca and we weren’t clear is whether the wedding and the Vito death scene took place in the same property and it did.

Wow. Which I never noticed. I never noticed until, you know, this, this read through, uh, thinking about it, how that full circle, the vetoes story Yeah. Comes full circle. Uh, by the, by the location that he is, he comes alive to the audience and when he dies to the audience, 

[01:26:56] Rebekah: it’s pretty amazing. All right. So before we wrap it up and give our verdicts, uh, I have a little mini game for us.

I wanna know. Easy. Easy. I don’t think it’s easy. I wanna know how we would rank ourselves in the four main roles of the Godfather. So you’ve got, who would be Don Vito, the godfather? Who would be Sonny? The violent general Michael, the reluctant heir, apparent, or Tom, the loyal enforcer. You seem to have a quick answer.

Josiah. Why don’t you just tell us what it 

[01:27:28] TJ: is? Yeah. Well, I don’t want to influence other people’s decisions, other people’s classifications. 

[01:27:33] Rebekah: Mom, you go first. I’ve thought about this, so I do have answers too. 

[01:27:36] Donna: So, um. Because I am a good submissive wife, which now I am. That’s not a joke. Uh, I’m gonna, I mean, I think your dad would be the godfather.

He’s, he’s my protector. Um, he stood up for me when other people have opposed me and stood up for you all. And you know, he’s very, he’s a very loyal person. If you, if you are in, if you are important to him, if he’s someone that, uh, if you’re someone that he has gone, gotten close to or found relationship, uh, to, he is very loyal.

You did kind of just describe Tom Hagan. 

[01:28:20] Rebekah: Huh? You did just kind of describe Tom Hagan. 

[01:28:23] Donna: Yeah. But dad would not have carried out the horse head thing. He couldn’t have done that. So that’s sad. Uh, somebody would’ve had to, but he couldn’t have done it. Um, so I mean, to me, I, I would think that Sonny, oh, I just don’t wanna say this, but Rebecca, you know, you’re the violent general.

I’m just gonna throw it out there. I mean, you, you have, right. Um, so that leaves me and Josiah see, I mean, he’s the heir apparent. In so much that he would carry on the Haynes name. Mm-hmm. But then, I don’t know, would I actually, I kind of think I might do the horse head thing. Okay. I’ll be Tom. So tj, you’re, you’re, you’re gonna be Michael.

I, I think that’s the only way it could go because I do, I don’t like to say this out loud ’cause I hate to say it about myself, but, um, I can have some vicious road rage and dad will get on me sometimes and be like, why can I ever let you drive alone? But you know, so, okay. That will be my, that’s gonna be my take on it.

[01:29:31] TJ: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dad, veto mom, Tom, Rebecca, Sonny, me, Michael. 

[01:29:37] Rebekah: How is it my, that’s that all of us think that I am Sonny, the womanizing, slutty, terrible person who hurt people unnecessarily. He really 

[01:29:48] TJ: has all of those vices. If Sonny might have your same Enneagram Mm, he might be the enthusiast. 

[01:29:55] Donna: Oh, I heard you on the phone with UPS.

Okay. That lady was rude, wrong. Wow. 

[01:30:04] Rebekah: She was wrong. I’ve heard, I’m very rude. What you say about me, everybody that you all think that I’m the violent one. 

[01:30:09] TJ: No, you’re loud 

[01:30:11] Donna: and that’s okay. 

[01:30:12] Rebekah: No. You all think I’m the violent one? 

[01:30:14] Donna: No. Rebecca, you, I have seen you debate and argue point that you passionate about to I would not if I didn’t.

I tell people. I will tell you, don’t ever cross her. Josh, you see something online? She says, 

[01:30:29] TJ: Josh, if you’re fiery, he’s sleeping. 

[01:30:32] Rebekah: Yeah. Am I fiery? Am I violent? Am I the most violent member of my immediate family?

[01:30:42] TJ: What were you, what character did you think was Sunny? Oh no. 

[01:30:46] Rebekah: I’m in charge of the podcast. I’m Don Vito. I’m the godfather. Wow. Who’s sunny? I don’t care. Mom. I’m concerned

mom. You’re sunny. Mom’s. Exactly like Sonny. I hate her.

[01:31:06] Donna: Oh, that’s me. Call me Sonny. Yeah, whatever. I’m gonna go cry. What would you afraid it? Where was your ranking? Beautiful. It was the same thing mom said. And me and the same thing Josiah said. Hmm, I wish I’d texted dad. Now we, Hey, no 

[01:31:20] TJ: one’s Fredo. 

[01:31:24] Rebekah: Josh is Fredo. No. Nathaniel’s. Fredo. Who’s Josh? Nathaniel is Fredo for sure.

[01:31:31] TJ: Josh is Josh. Tom. If mom gets to be Carmella 

[01:31:36] Rebekah: mom would be Carmella and Josh would be Tom. Oh, Josh, would you carry out the horse head? Yeah, he said he would. I think he’s lying. I think he’d do it. Did Tom 

[01:31:44] TJ: physically carry out the horse head or did he just get someone to do it? He saw to 

[01:31:48] Donna: it. I don’t think he did it.

He was gone to the airport. He saw to it. So. All right, 

[01:31:53] Rebekah: well, 

[01:31:54] Donna: what are your final 

[01:31:55] Rebekah: verdicts?

[01:31:59] Donna: So, um, I’ll start. This is my favorite. I’ll start. Uh, one, I genuinely appreciate you all agreeing for us to do this because. I know it’s not, you know, probably even like our most devoted listeners, are they gonna go, oh, what The Godfather? I don’t know. I hope they listen. I hope they get something from it, you know, enjoy our banter or whatever.

Um, I have not read the book before now. So this was the first time I’ve read the book. Uh, I think I would read the book again. I liked some of the things that were fleshed out in the book. I enjoyed getting a little more perspective and even on characters like Lucy Mancini, who it was kind of odd that there was so much more detail about her in the book, little parts of the description, like how she really, she didn’t marry again after Sonny.

She, but it also didn’t describe her as like a trashy girl either. And I thought that was very interesting in the backstory they gave us on, um, even, even the backstory of Luca, like that made his portrayal even more. Effective to me. Um, scary and sad, but, but effective. So, uh, I’m really glad that I had the opportunity to read the book.

Um, 

[01:33:23] Rebekah: give us ratings at a 10 for both, and then tell us, was the book better in the movie better? 

[01:33:27] Donna: Oh, the, the book I, I, I would go definitely go 9.2 out of 10, if that’s right. I think it’s right. Um, def I, yeah, I’m, I’m good there. And the movie, I mean, for me, it’s, this is my favorite movie. There’s a few other movies that come close, but there is something about the world building and the character development of this story that hits all the good, good spots for me, the, the understanding of why people think the way they do.

That’s another thing. The book did it, it. It helped you see even more of how this, whether it’s Italian, I mean in this case it would be Sicilians, but this incredible commitment to their family and their determination and all that. It just, so, I mean, it’s, it’s a 10 for me and the movie does went out over the book, um, just for the reasons I’ve said and, um.

Yeah, it’s cool. No, no. Uh, apologies for liking it. So yeah, for all the haters out there. Well, 

[01:34:37] Rebekah: you’re very welcome. I’m glad we did it too. And I, I mean, I know you were doubtful of me. I honestly don’t think, I think that I really enjoyed it more than you probably expected me to. The movie was hard for me to connect with.

It was actually a little easier when I started thinking about it as something that was trying to imitate a biography, because I think that there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of things that, especially in the book, don’t feel like they have much of a payoff or they’re like, why am I learning about this thing?

But then it reminded me, I know this is gonna sound bad, but like it reminded me of American Prometheus and how we’d get it introduced to a character and all of a sudden it’s like we have to go and get their whole like life story, but not like American Prometheus. Everybody’s weird life stories that were chosen because this is fiction.

Were really interesting and weird and strange. Um, yeah, I can’t rate the book super high, just it’s a, it’s not the type of thing that I particularly enjoy, I think. Sure. Technically it’s. So well written. Like I wouldn’t deny that. And it wasn’t like, oh, this is garbage. I hate it. So I’d probably rate it like a five and a half out of 10 personally and honestly, if it was in a genre that I enjoyed, it would get closer to like an eight or a nine.

’cause it was really well done. Like object on the objective points. Um, yeah, I can’t, part of object or subjectively why I don’t rate it high is also that like, I don’t read stuff with this much sexual content. Like Right. If it wasn’t something that we had chosen to cover for the podcast, I wouldn’t have ever read it.

Just ’cause it’s a, the type of thing I avoid. But like I said before, gone Girl. Yeah. Gone Girl. And there’s one book that I’ve read that has very, very brief sexual content that I didn’t know was in the book. Other than that, I’ve been really good at avoiding it, except for some of these podcast choices.

It’s actually from the two of you. What does that say about the two of you? Speaking is the violent one. How should I feel? What are you, how should I feel? What should I do about this? 

[01:36:34] TJ: You, you’re gonna break my bees. That stands for bones. 

[01:36:41] Rebekah: Oh, I’m reading a thing that has a thing about bees. Anyway. Uh, so I think for me, this is an objectively decent book that is not my taste of book, but it was good.

Um, I would give it, like I said, five and a half, and then for the movie like. I probably won’t watch it again ’cause it’s not my taste in movie other than if mom puts it on, like, I’d, I’d watch it again. I, again, it’s like so objectively good, but it’s just not my thing. It’s like if I asked one of you guys to, you know, read and love a, I don’t know, romantic that I, well I don’t like romantic either, but anyway, that’s not my point.

My point is it’s just not my thing, but it was really good. So I would personally rate it like a six and a half outta 10 as the movie. And I think the movie was better than the book in that it, it became a more enduring classic. Um, and I think that they made some really smart changes and maybe a couple of things that I didn’t really get, um, but really good all the way around.

And I don’t, I mean, it’s honestly, I don’t mind. Getting outta my norm every once in a while and reading something that, you know, wouldn’t have otherwise been on my list. So, 

[01:37:49] TJ: well, I was very pleasantly surprised by the book. I felt a bit like Rebecca in that almost every piece of the book. Well, I, I’ll say the parts that I didn’t like about the book compared to the movie were the expansion of Johnny Fontaine and Lucy Mancini’s stories.

They, you know, if I’m being charitable, they help portray the effect that the Corleone have on non corleone. But there’s just so much time spent, like a lot, you know, a lot. There are several hour long chapters spent to these side plots. They have unnecessary content that makes it uncomfortable to listen to.

There is, as far as I can tell, the four. Well, Lucy, Dr. Jules and Johnny Fontaine are, their lives are all made better by one another. Therefore by Don Vito. Yeah. And the Corleone. So I think that the ultimate point of their inclusion has to be to show Don Vito care genuinely makes sure that people who are on his side are taken care of, which I think is a little hypocritical.

Yep. You know, Don Vito seems to be a guy who follows his own code of honor consistently. So, you know, that’s a good thing. But it’s so hard for me not to see this through the lens of, you know, Goodfellas to an extent, but especially Sopranos. The, the entire point of the Sopranos is that these guys in the mafia are narcissists and hypocrites.

They talk about family and how family is the most important thing. And, and, you know, you hear in The Godfather how if you don’t talk to the police, your family is taken care of. But, and then in the Sopranos. It shows how, you know, if you don’t talk to the police and you serve your time, there are multiple characters who get out of prison after a long sentence.

They didn’t talk, they kept erta, but then they come out and it’s things are different and they’re not really given a fair shake. When they come back multiple times, it just blows up in their face and it’s like, eh, you don’t fit in in this world anymore. Yeah. And instead of taking care of you because you kept your mouth shut and kept our code of honor, it’s like, eh, you’re just inconvenient and you affect my ability to make money, so actually I’m gonna kill you or send you back to prison.

Something like that. So in the context of Sopranos now having happened. There, there’s a glorification of the mafia. There’s an idealism in the Godfather that I did not mind, but it’s certainly, I don’t think you could write it today for multiple, but, uh, I think the Sopranos had deconstructed and therefore killed the traditional mafia story.

It kind of godfather to Sopranos is a very interesting character arc to follow in a, in the same same way how Westerns died. Uh, Lindsay Ellis, I, I’m sure I mention her all the time. Uh, she talked about how Blazing saddles, Mel Gibson’s, blazing Saddles Yeah. Was one of the things that killed the Western because it was, it was such a deconstruction of what westerns if they were honest about their subject material.

Yeah. What it would actually be like. All these cowboys are fluctuating around a fire and it’s, it is an absurd scene. It’s like, yeah, that probably is what, yeah. Met those boys would’ve done around the fire. And that isn’t so it, that’s not so mythical an American story. So I think that The Godfather book did something amazing.

I think the movie did something amazing. Movie is more widely regarded, just ’cause it’s a movie. Movies reach wider audiences. Uh, but you know, I said earlier that I felt a little bit like Rebecca while reading this book. That’s because I was just reading. I was listening and thinking I. Oh my gosh, that makes so much more sense with all that detail.

I see. Oh, that’s why that happened. Oh, that’s why he makes that face. Oh, that’s why this happens. I mean, every single chapter I’m thinking, oh, that’s why they did it that way. In the movie, I didn’t quite understand the subtext and the acting in the movie. It just kind of felt like, oh, yeah, there’s, there is an explanation for that.

But for the book to actually say, this is the explanation, uh, out of 10, I suppose the book and movie probably both get in the upper nines to basically a 10 in both regards, say book and movie near enough, a 10 to make a 10. A good number to say. But, um, there’s a, uh, if you take out Lucy and Johnny Fontaine’s side plots, I’d say the book is definitely better with their side plots.

And I, I will have to add in my ability to skip those chapters in order to say I do believe the book is better. 

[01:42:37] Rebekah: All right. Well, that is what we got. And if you enjoyed this episode, please give us a rating or review on your favorite podcast app. Uh, we’re live on Patreon, so if you are willing to join as a free subscriber or part of a paid tier, we would love that.

You can also find us online. We’re getting more active on Instagram lately. Uh, we’re also on X Facebook as well. Um, and if you wanna send feedback, you can ask us questions, request us cover specific things, or just have fun with us. We have a free discord, and the link to that server is in the episode description.

Until next time, uh, we’re gonna make you a podcast. You can’t. It’s the wrong movie. 

[01:43:17] TJ: It’s the wrong movie, baby Spanish cia. 

[01:43:21] Donna: Uh, it’s Arnold Schwartzenegger. 

[01:43:25] TJ: Wait, is that Scarface? 

[01:43:29] Rebekah: And on that note, goodbye.