S02E07 — The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring

SPOILER ALERT: This episode and transcript below contains major spoilers for The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring.

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Featuring hosts Timothy Haynes, Donna Haynes, Rebekah Edwards, and T. Josiah Haynes.

Three of us LOVE this book and its film adaptation. One of us is… shall we say… ambivalent? But you’ll have to listen to find out who it is!

Our family of four discusses our feelings about one of the most major book-to-film adaptations in history, plus a bit of fun trivia.

Final Verdicts

If you haven’t listened to the episode yet, we recommend waiting to read our verdicts. (But you’re probably grown, so do what you want!)

The book is a slow burn, packed with songs, lore, and enough walking to make your feet hurt, while the movie trims the fat and cranks up the urgency. Peter Jackson took Tolkien’s sprawling epic and turned it into a breathtaking adventure that keeps you hooked from start to finish.

Tim: 50/50 split (the movie and book are equally amazing)

Donna: The movie was better

Rebekah: The movie was better

Josiah: The movie was better

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Full Episode Transcript

Prefer reading? Check out the full episode transcript below. It’s AI-generated from our audio, and if we’re being honest… no one sat to read the entire thing for accuracy. (After all, we were there the whole time.) 😉 We’re sorry in advance for any typos or transcription errors.

TJ: Here’s the, here’s the musical introduction. Follow my lead, da.

I don’t 

Tim: know the rest. It’s Lord of the Rings, the Fellowship of the Rings. You just changed keys. I probably did. Book versus movie. I’m terrible at keeping in one key. Sorry. 

TJ: Ding.

Rebekah: Hey, welcome to the Book Is Better podcast. We are a family of four and we review book to film adaptations. Yay, we are [00:01:00] back. Today, we are Starting off with something I know everybody’s been looking forward to a lot. We are going to be reviewing the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Yes, everyone. Oh, everyone.

Spoiler warning, we are going to potentially, obviously, we’re going to spoil Fellowship of the Ring because that’s what this episode is about. We may mention some things from the end of the story. There’s an outside possibility we’ll spoil something from Rings of Power, but that’s less, less, less likely, if you will.

Possible, Bahamut. 

Tim: Yes. Just in case. The Hobbit. 

Rebekah: Uh, so spoiler warning for all of those. So you have been spoiler warned. Um, you’ve had 

Tim: 24 years to watch them. 

Rebekah: Very true. 

TJ: And 25 years to read them at least. 

Rebekah: Oh, at least 25, 70 

TJ: years. Wow. What a legacy. They’re almost as old as dad. That doesn’t seem that old, though, actually.

Donna: I’m just kidding. That’ll get Travis in. [00:02:00]

TJ: Feels like it’s older than 70 years, though. Doesn’t it? 

Rebekah: Uh, it was 54. In 

Donna: the 50s? Yeah.

Rebekah: As we get started, we like to introduce ourselves and give a little fun fact, uh, related in some way to our episode. So today’s fun fact question is, Which of the character races in Fellowship of the Ring would you most like to be?

So, Elf. Hobbit and so on 

TJ: and so race or which like named character 

Rebekah: which kind of being 

TJ: What 

Donna: I was what I 

Rebekah: what I was so I am Rebecca I am the daughter slash sister of the family and I have not given this a ton of thought but my First thought is I think I’d like to be an elf cuz like they live forever They’re really hot They sound really pretty and they can sing a lot and they’re very like mysterious.

I have played a half elf in D& D, but not a full elf yet. But yeah, I think of these [00:03:00] character races, I’d probably pick elves. 

TJ: I’m Josiah. I’m the brother son of this fellowship family. And I would probably, I mean, there, there are benefits to everything. Elves seems like the obvious option, but Hobbits is kind of like the Hufflepuff where it’s kind of like, yeah, the normal people can just chill out and have an easy, normal life as a Hobbit.

You like, uh, eating and lazing around, maybe gossiping a little bit. 

Rebekah: Or a lot. 

Tim: My name is Tim. I’m the dad of this fellowship. I was thinking, I was thinking hobbits because it’s, it’s the most normal kind of, you’re unconcerned about the outside world. Life goes on day by day. You love family. You love flowers and, you know, plants and things.

That sounds fun. 

TJ: Dad, would you not want to be one of the Maiar? What? Oh, wow. Are 

Rebekah: you even a fan? 

TJ: Yes. [00:04:00] I don’t 

Rebekah: know what he’s talking about, so I just jumped on the train. 

TJ: That’s the race that includes all the wizards. 

Tim: Oh, is that what they are? I did. I don’t remember the word. There are 

TJ: some in this. And there’s also men, yes.

They’re 

Rebekah: human. We could technically just stay the same. Hey, hey, maybe mom 

TJ: wants to be a man. She’s about to say she’s going to be of the race of men. 

Donna: That is a plot twist. That would be a big ole plot twist right there. Uh, so my name’s Donna. I’m the wife and mom of this little quad fellowship. And I think, um, my, my current life status is a little scattered cause there’s a lot of stuff’s going on in my life right now, professionally.

And, uh, so I think I would like to be an int wife and I know we don’t get into the ints until book [00:05:00] two, but just to let you know, int wives 

Tim: ran away, are not 

Donna: really. Discovered because, or they’re not, they’re lost and Mary says, Oh no, did they, he said they’re gone. And Mary says, Oh, did they die? And he was like, no, they just disappeared.

Tim: And we weren’t paying attention. We weren’t 

Donna: paying attention. So 

Tim: we don’t know where they went. I wouldn’t mind 

Donna: to be able just to get away a little bit. I could be somewhere else. Well, you guys said somebody said hobbit and I wanted to be a little hobbit kid because they have short really curly hair and they look happy and fun all the time.

Well, 

Rebekah: I’ll just be one of the Numenoreans then. Yeah, I think it’s funny that three of you initially went with hobbit. Like that’s really, are we a family of hobbits? Is that a thing that we are? I mean, Josh would be a hobbit too. And he likes seeds. He’s the only one not here. That’s right. 

Tim: I’ve always told him that he had hobbit feet.

Donna: I’m sure he would pick being a hobbit. Yeah, but I was thinking, I just thought Aunt Wife [00:06:00] sounded interesting because they’re somewhere. They still exist, just nobody knows where. 

Rebekah: Alright, well, Dad slash Tim, would you like to give us a summary of what happens in this first book of the trilogy? 

Tim: Sure, I will give us the plot summary.

Well, it’s Bilbo Baggins eleventy first birthday. But he has a plan. To leave the Shire for good, and will all of his possessions to his beloved nephew, Frodo. The unsuspecting Frodo doesn’t know it at first, but one of these possessions is the One Ring. A powerful artifact forged in the fires of Mount Doom that has been at the center of epic wars on Middle Earth over the past two millennia.

Sauron? The Dark Lord now seeks to retrieve that ring. So Gandalf the Grey, a wizard and old friend of the Baggins family, encourages Frodo to leave his home and begin the harrowing journey to keep the ring from Sauron’s hands. Frodo departs the Shire with his closest friend, Sam Gamgee. [00:07:00] And two other brave hobbits, Merry and Pippin.

They narrowly escape death at the hands of the evil Ringwraiths, servants of the Dark Lord, and are joined by Aragorn, first introduced as Strider, who accompanies and protects them on their way to the elven village of Rivendell. There they finally reunite with Gandalf and meet Elrond, the Elf Lord, before gathering in what would come to be known as the Council of Elrond.

In addition to the four hobbits, Aragorn and Gandalf There are three others who commit to joining the Fellowship of the Ring to accompany Frodo to Mordor where the Ring can be destroyed or unmade. The human Boromir, the elf Legolas, and the dwarf Gimli complete. this fellowship. Together, these nine try to traverse the misty mountains but are forced to enter the mines of Moria, where they meet orcs, trolls, and a balrog before losing their wizard companion just before [00:08:00] exiting the mines.

The remaining fellowship members despondently make their way to the fantastical elf city of Lothlorien, where they are sheltered by the elf queen Galadriel. She offers them gifts and counsel before they continue their journey. As they travel down the river Anduin, the fellowship begins to splinter under the ring’s corrupting influence.

Boromir, succumbing to its temptation, tries to take the ring from Frodo. Realizing the danger he poses to his companions, Frodo then decides to continue the quest alone. Sam, however, refuses to leave Frodo and joins him. The fellowship is broken. Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli set out to rescue Merry and Pippin, who are captured by orcs, while Frodo and Sam begin their journey to Mordor.

Rebekah: So I do want to make a note, um, of the plot summary. That very last bit, the orc capture of the two hobbits and Boromir’s parting, uh, those don’t actually happen until the first few pages [00:09:00] of the second book in the series, but they are included as part of the first film’s conclusion, and I I think that that makes a lot of sense, like, as they part.

That all made sense to me, and it’s, like, the first or second page of the next book. So, we include that. Technically, in the book, we see Frodo and Sam leave, but it’s right before, um, the other members of the Fellowship fight the orcs, the two other hobbits are kidnapped, and Boromir’s killed. 

Tim: I think it made sense for the visual medium to end with that, as opposed to ending exactly where the book did.

TJ: Do you approve of the conclusion inclusion? 

Tim: The conclusion inclusion is perfect, I think. 

Rebekah: I do. Um, so if you are joining us for the first time or just like to know how we organize each episode, we like to talk about the major differences in three different ways. Number one, the characterization. Number two, changes to the setting.

And then number three is changes to the plot and timeline. So we’re going to do them in that order and start with some differences in the characters. 

Tim: Well, let’s start with a [00:10:00] character who runs through all three books. As a matter of fact He’s introduced in The Hobbit. Gollum is featured earlier in the film than he is in the book.

In fact, his introduction during the opening montage retelling the events of the Forging of the Rings and the wars that resulted. In the book, we don’t learn about Gollum until later, when he is assumed to be following the Fellowship on their journey. 

Donna: You all listen to The audio book read by, um, Andy Serkis.

Rebekah: Andy Serkis. Yes. I listened to about half the book and read the physical book for the second half. 

Donna: He, I was so impressed and he got to the point of started reading Gollum and I was literally losing it. Yeah. 

Rebekah: It is kind of crazy that he, as the actor who played Gollum, like when he talks as Gollum, It’s like, it’s so weird, because we all saw the movies before listening to that version of the audiobook.

Obviously, that version is very new, so it is kind of trippy that he’s the, he’s the reader. 

Tim: I [00:11:00] don’t know if it jumps in any other place, but, um, what we see of Gollum in the film, um, he’s actually very, very dark. Skinned because they weren’t exactly sure yet what he was going to look like and later in in the later films He has a very pale skin looks almost dead.

So interesting it is I thought it was interesting because even though they filmed the film so close together and Uh, and all of that, they still hadn’t quite made that determination. 

TJ: Another characterization, Sam, Mary, and Pippin, the other hobbits, are younger than Frodo in the book, but in the film they all kind of seem to be the same age.

Rebekah: Yeah, I think they were like 15 or 20 years younger. If I remember correctly, does that sound about right? Like Sam’s like 10 maybe years younger and the other two are 15 or 20 years younger. 

Donna: I found it interesting once I realized, you know, we know we open with Bilbo, you know, celebrating this [00:12:00] big birthday and he’s over a hundred.

And so then Frodo is 33. 

Tim: It’s also Frodo’s birthday. Yeah. 

Donna: Right. And Frodo and the other. Three main hobbits, you just don’t see them as young adults. Like you don’t see them as children either. 

Tim: Well, they’re almost teenagers in the way that they act and respond. 

Donna: Yeah. I think making them that so carefree and making them so youthful, I felt like made what they chose to do even more meaningful, like it made it even more.

Impressive. 

Rebekah: Another big character change that I actually was really interested in in the books was Tom Bombadil. Tom is a mysterious and powerful character the Hobbits meet on their way to the town of Bree. He is omitted entirely from the films. He never shows back up. In the book, he seems to be the only person.

Who’s not under the powerful pull of the one ring, but I think Frodo offers him the opportunity to [00:13:00] take it and he’s super disinterested, which is very different than the other people Frodo offers the ring to. Tom Bombadil also rescues the hobbits from certain death three times during their short stay with him.

He’s incredibly powerful. So I actually, this led me a little bit to. Like, trying to read a little bit of backstory about what Tom Bombadil is, what race is he, what, like, does he do? Um, and he’s very mysterious, but he’s, he’s quite a, an enigma. 

TJ: Makes me think that J. R. R. Tolkien didn’t have a good editor. Oh, really?

Rebekah: He’s great, what do you mean? 

Tim: That Bombadil 

TJ: is in it? Oh, goodness. I was thinking about asking Rebecca if she liked Tom Bombadil. 

Rebekah: You don’t like Tom Bombadil? He’s one of the only interesting people. 

Tim: When Frodo and Gandalf are discussing the ring and, and Frodo says it could, maybe it could stay here in, in the elves, with the elves and no, it can’t stay there.

And well, maybe Tom Bombadil would take it. And he said, one, he wouldn’t be interested. And two, his power [00:14:00] seems to be power over things of the earth, plants and, and things like that. Maybe he’s a 

Rebekah: druid. Well, I’m 

Tim: not sure. That’s about all the information we really get. He’s just considered a very mysterious being.

TJ: You know, Rebecca, maybe you’d like Rings of Power because Tom Bombadil is a recurring character in Rings of Power on Amazon Prime. 

Rebekah: I did come across that little tidbit. I have not seen Rings of Power. 

Tim: The parts of it I’ve watched, I haven’t come across Tom Belm Bedell yet. No, I think I saw I 

TJ: believe it’s the second season.

I think I watched everything from the first season except the last episode. And I literally just couldn’t bring myself to I might turn it on in the background sometime, but it’s just so boring. I think this makes my minigame, uh, 

Rebekah: I think this makes my minigame slightly more, uh, timely. We could just talk about it now.

Have you seen Rings of Power? And if so, what did you think? 

Tim: I’ve seen a few episodes. Um, I was trying [00:15:00] very hard to get into it. I am not impressed. With the characterization of Galadriel, who is one of the characters introduced at the beginning, um, she’s, she just doesn’t come across as a person that That I want to know, that I want to share in their story.

So, for me, she’s probably the primary miss, um, then the rest of the story doesn’t, doesn’t interest me enough to get over that. 

TJ: For me, nothing happens. It’s so boring, and there’s nothing magical happening. Although, I like the aesthetics of the Harfoot scene. The Harfoot? They’re like proto hobbits. Oh, okay.

So you’re 

Rebekah: saying it’s the rest of the 

TJ: story? It’s what Rebecca thinks, incorrectly, Lord of the Rings is. 

Donna: I felt like they took so much effort in the visual aspect of the film to make, you know, to make it [00:16:00] visually, it is visually lovely, like scenes and, and the backdrops and, and all those things, but we just.

We couldn’t grab, we couldn’t grab hold of any of the characters and really want to cheer for them or really want to, you know, whatever. Yeah. Um, 

Tim: and that introduction with the, with the ring and the, in the gold, that was actually the subject of one of the other podcast, uh, YouTube videos that I watch, uh, special effects fellas that, uh, that like to watch things like that.

They were extremely impressed with that, especially before the rest of the show was introduced. You know, that was kind of. In the in the preview things Interesting. 

Rebekah: Well, I have not seen it. I’m not a big Lord of the Rings fan, so I don’t know any of the lore or didn’t know any of the lore. Um, I know Josh has watched it and we have some friends that are like really into it and they know a lot of people have been not big fans of it, but they think that people are just misinterpreting things that make them not like it.

So I don’t know what any of that means or what they think [00:17:00] is being misinterpreted. So I just know they like it and watch it religiously. 

Donna: So Sarm on the white. Is depicted on screen in the movie where he’s mentioned, but not directly portrayed in the book. I did like this. I was glad that they introduced him.

I felt like other than just a couple of main characters by the whole, by the end of the trilogy. I felt like it was smart to introduce the majority of them in, in the first movie. Um, one just to kind of bring in the person who hasn’t read the book or hasn’t read it. You know, some people are like avid repeat readers of the trilogy and things like that.

Like, so I thought that 

Rebekah: was smart. I agree with what you just said. I think it was good to bring him in. Partly because I still I have to remind myself who Sauron versus Saruman is because their names are so similar. So for me, I think if you had brought in Saruman in the second [00:18:00] book, I would not have remembered him if Gandalf had just said like he does in the book, Oh, this is what happened with Saruman.

I would not have placed that person. So I think this was a really, really good win, like for the movies. 

Tim: And I think the fact that their names are very similar was very intentional. I don’t think that was a that was an editor mistake or whatever, that he couldn’t think of it. Sir, Sir Christopher Lee, who was born in 1922 and played.

Saruman, uh, passed away in 2015, uh, about 14 years after the first movie. He read Lord of the Rings once a year from the year it was published until his death. He was the only member of the cast or crew. to have actually met J. R. R. Tolkien, he was the first actor to be cast, and since he had such extensive knowledge of the books, he often spent time with the makeup artists giving tips about the facial design of the monsters.

A real fan. That’s [00:19:00] crazy. I love 

Rebekah: that. I think that I, you know, I’ve never really wanted to get into acting, but I do think it is fun to think about. playing in something that is like a dear series to you, you know, I think that that would be such an exciting thing. So like what a dream come true 

Donna: that must have been.

And interestingly enough, kind of related to that is Peter Jackson. Would only direct if he could do what he wanted to do with it, which was be as true to this as he could be. 

Rebekah: I wonder if Sir Christopher Lee chose Saruman as the part he wanted to play. Like if he was, if he was very desired for it, do you think that they would have given him the option to choose?

Like, hey, do you want to audition for the part of Gandalf or whatever? You know what I mean? I would imagine they 

Tim: probably did since he was the first actor cast that it was probably, this is what we think. What do you think? What would you like to do? I think it says something about Peter Jackson though, that he was, he was really, [00:20:00] is really a fan of the Lord of the Rings, that he was so very picky about so many things.

Rebekah: And I think that as a reader that wants books to be brought to life on screen in a very honoring way I think that means a lot to me like it matters to me that you’d be a big fan of the work that you’re Producing I was talking to somebody last night who said they were I think it was you guys Are you familiar with avatar the last airbender?

It’s an animated show Josiah has seen it but so it’s really popular Josh loves that. I’ve seen it. It’s really good And there was like a Comic Con where most of the original voice acting cast got together and they did their very first panel. But this was like years after the show, so they were children when they started doing this, but like, these people were adults, some of whom are not in voice acting, they don’t do any of this stuff.

And our friend was talking about how it’s so hard because people were like, You changed my life, like your character and the way that you played this thing like, like it was in a really hard time and they were like, [00:21:00] Oh yeah, I watched the series for the first time last year. It was pretty interesting and they weren’t fans of the show.

They didn’t watch it like they just showed up to a job. And it like is so heart wrenching when you hear stuff like that. And so the contrast of Peter Jackson caring about it a lot, I think is awesome. 

Donna: Yeah. Yeah. And then to think about, you know, movies like Galaxy Quest, where they parody that and they’re at a comic con and people are like, Oh, you wrote the romance.

What was the rest? And they’re looking at each other going, they suck. 

Tim: Yeah, 

Donna: exactly. So Rebecca, you said you’d seen this one movie before. Have you seen all three movies? Oh, yeah, 

Rebekah: I’ve seen them. I think I saw all of them or most of them in theaters. Okay. And I’ve, I’ve seen the extended editions multiple times.

Cool. I’m gonna be honest. It’s hard for me to like sit and focus on all of them. Mm hmm. So a lot of times I’ve seen them, it’s like they’re on while I’m doing another thing. Right. So. 

TJ: You know, I know there’s another character, but I think we should talk about Aragorn and Arwen. Their [00:22:00] encounters in the book.

Are in the appendices, they’re not even in the main story, which the appendices, by the way, aren’t in the audio book, so I didn’t get to 

Rebekah: They’re not in my physical book either. I wondered if you have to find them separately, because I was looking for them yesterday. After I finished the book, the only thing in the back of this book is maps.

Oh, 

TJ: interesting. 

Rebekah: A bunch of maps of Middle Earth. 

Tim: I think the books that I have, have them. 

Rebekah: Oh, interesting. 

TJ: Mmm. I put my maps at the beginning and my appendices at the end. 

Rebekah: Which I think makes logical sense. 

TJ: I was flabbergasted in the book when Aragorn offhandedly mentioned, yes, the love of my life. Dwells in Rivendell, and then it’s never brought up again.

He doesn’t even, he doesn’t even name drop Arwen. It did throw me off. Yeah, so, uh, in the film, Arwen saves Frodo when he is stabbed by the Black Rider. She and Aragorn spend time [00:23:00] together in Rivendell. She’s mentioned in more detail than in the book when Aragorn talks to Galadriel. But in the book, not Arwen who saves Frodo, it’s Glorfindel who He’s a male elf, you could tell by his name that he’s a male elf who helps rescue Frodo from the Ringwraiths.

Rebekah: To me it was like interesting that they replaced him with Arwen to like work her into the story. Yeah. But it was actually a dude like that showed up in the first place, so it was never a romantic thing in the book. 

TJ: There is technically a Glorfindel in the film, but the actor who plays Glorfindel has no lines in the film.

I think it was a good change to give Arwen that part of saving Frodo. I think Lindsay Ellis might have said this, so I might be parroting Lindsay Ellis, but It was kind of a half baked idea. It kind of set up, well, I know we’re just talking about Fellowship of the Ring, but Her saving Frodo kind of set up [00:24:00] Arwen, warrior princess.

Which they filmed more Arwen warrior princess in for the second film, and they cut it. 

Donna: Oh, I think too. I think it was wise for Jackson to use this romantic trope, which ends up being a little bit of a triangle that really isn’t focused on the book at all. There was a lot of smart marketing from Jackson there because really the book series is not about romantic escapades or anything like that.

So I thought he handled it well. There wasn’t anything skeevier, weird about it. It was just a beautiful love story between two very noble people. 

Tim: But the changing characters. 

Donna: Gimli the dwarf in the book was an honorable, but mostly serious dwarf in the film. Jackson gives him a little more of a comedic role, [00:25:00] too, which grows throughout the series.

And I think, again, casting Davies is, is, I think he’s kind of masterful at this because you don’t see him as a comedic, like a goof. Also, regarding 

Rebekah: Gimli, he and Legolas in the book are pretty hostile towards one another throughout most of the Fellowship book. In the film, they start out hostile but quickly develop a friendship, and I love the way their friendship grows.

Throughout the films, um, I think that that was a really nice change. It gave you kind of a fun little, you know, bromance on the side. So I enjoyed that a lot. 

TJ: Rebecca, did you know that the actor who plays Gimli, John Rhys Davies, is the tallest actor in the cast? He’s the largest. I 

Tim: was gonna say that. He is the largest actor in the cast.

Donna: I did not know that. Not only the tallest. That seems like an odd choice. He’s just 

Tim: like big. As well. And what’s another weird thing about him being the tallest, he’s only 

Donna: 6’1 Oh, so a lot of them are like [00:26:00] below average height. Yeah, cause I was thinking Gandalf and Christopher Lee are shorter than 6’1 I would say, I would, in my head I see them as taller.

They’re like 6’4 Yeah. They must 

Tim: just be thin. In my head. Plus there’s so, there’s so much, um, perspective stuff that goes on. in the movie to make normal sized people look like hobbits and normal sized characters look much, much larger sitting in the same room. Well, there are also some setting changes that take place.

Um, there are several locations between the Shire and the town of Bree. that are featured in the book that are shown only in passing or not actually at all in the film, such as Tom Bombadil’s residence, Farmer Maggot’s home, we do see his field, um, but not his home, and the Crick Hollow detour. which accounted for because they’ve compressed the time so much, so these are just [00:27:00] Passover things.

Rebekah: I thought all of those were good changes because in the book, that the time between leaving the Shire and going to Bree, I was like reading every page going, Oh, 

TJ: It’s Tom Bombadil, but you love Tom Bombadil. How much 

Rebekah: longer? Until, like, that was like the one little reprieve, but it was like, then they kept, then they went, they were at Maggots first, and then it was, then, it just like felt like so much, I’m like, we haven’t even met Aragorn?

Like, what is happening? So, I thought that these were good. They definitely moved the movie along to the things that mattered more. Also, you don’t like Tom Bombadil, so you also think this was a good change. 

Donna: But, so we agree. But again, for the, for the, where the romance would hit one particular part of the audience that might not be interested otherwise.

That gave a little nod to the history of the books for the true readers, the true followers, but it didn’t take the time to develop them. 

Rebekah: All right. Lothlorien of the film, which is [00:28:00] the second elf location that the party goes to, is portrayed as very mysterious. It’s kind of scary and foreboding. In the book, though, it’s described as a realm of timeless beauty and refuge.

I was confused by this because I expected what I thought it was going to be like from the movie when I was reading the book. So I was a little bit thrown off by the fact that Lothlorien was, like, just beautiful. Galadriel, even, didn’t come across as super scary. But in the film, I remember, like, they went out of their way to make her very spooky.

So I think it was an interesting change. I don’t know if I like or didn’t like it, but it did, uh, it took me a second to process that when I was reading 

Tim: Gimli mentions that people come under her spell, um, in the film. And I think that was to give us a precursor to how they wanted it to feel. One of the things before, before we move past these things, I think it’s a, another nod to Peter Jackson, who is a big [00:29:00] fan of the books.

But he changed a lot of things, but even the changes that he made, fans say we still love it. Because it’s the, it’s the essence of the books that he brings in. 

Donna: Oh, I got that. The other essence that we get is, from the movie, is the visual depiction of Saruman’s Orc forging and deforestation, which are only mentioned in passing in the book.

Now you connect this in the second book as we get into the four, as they get into the forest and Mary and Pippin meet the Ents. But, um, this, as grotesque as it is to watch the orc, Uruk Hai, get birthed out of that odd thing. It is so disgusting, but it’s so effective. And you hate this guy, and you know he’s this [00:30:00] soulless, lifeless thing that was just created for Saruman’s bidding.

And I mean, it, The attention to detail just has gotten me for this. That’s what’s really drawn me into these and kept me watching them. There’s so much attention to little things that enhance your experience that, you know, even the gross stuff is really cool. 

Rebekah: Well, let’s talk about how the plot and timeline are changed.

We do these in Roughly, chronological order. 

Donna: The film begins with Galadriel describing the lore of the Rings of Power, rather than an introduction to the Hobbits. In the movie, it seems like it’s important to meet, to immediately emphasize how powerful the One Ring is. as is the urgency of destroying the ring rather than the slow paced world building.

A little bit of trivia, they initially recorded both Elijah Wood and Sir Ian McKellen reading this, [00:31:00] uh, this I guess, is it, would it be considered it’s, yeah, the opening scene. Yeah. Um, they, they recorded them reading it, and then Jackson settled on Galadriel to pull in like the ethereal feel, feel, and set, set, that sets his tone for the movie.

I have a question. So, 

Tim: yeah. Was that in the first theatrical release, or was that redone for the extended release? It 

Rebekah: was 

Donna: her. 

Rebekah: I think the introduction like that was really, really solid. I watched a couple of YouTube videos just about what people thought about how they changed the books to the film. I think this was probably one of the strongest things that they did because most people that went to see the movie likely hadn’t read the book or if they’d read it, it was probably a long time ago.

So it was really good to like ground ourselves in that world. And the other thing I loved about it was the fact that it adds this [00:32:00] urgency. There is no urgency in the book at all. Like, it’s literally like, Oh, okay. Somebody’s after the ring. I guess I’ll wait two decades. I will wait two decades and go.

Like, there’s no urgency. And so in the film, it was just really well done that I, you immediately are drawn in. And then you care about what happens because it matters that you do this really quickly. 

TJ: You know who I think we should talk more about? Frodo. The Sackville Bagginses. 

Tim: Me too. Well, unfortunately for Peter Jackson, he said he loved the work of the Sackville Bagginses actors, but he really couldn’t use them very much in the film.

Frodo sells his hobbit hole to the Sackville Bagginses in the book, but it’s unclear in the film who the house would go to, but This sale is not mentioned and Frodo eventually returns to the same home at the very end of the series. So, the Sackville Bagginses are just angry that Bilbo lived so long and [00:33:00]they haven’t inherited the Hobbit hole.

So. 

Rebekah: Okay, the next thing I want to talk about is actually something that bothers me quite a bit about the film. It’s one of the only changes that I’m genuinely confused by. So, in the book, Merry and Pippin. Intentionally join Frodo and Sam to go and meet Gandalf, like, on their way to Bree. Like, they go with them on purpose.

The end, like that’s just how it works in the film. It seems if they run into the others by happenstance while they’re stealing food from farmer maggot and suddenly go, you know what? We’re going to take this long and dangerous journey and not tell anyone from our large families that we’re even going anywhere.

We don’t know why we’re going or what is happening, but why not? Like, it just feels like the most random thing. 

Tim: There is a big part of the plot in the book where they are. Co conspirators. Um, Sam has been listening in and they’ve been [00:34:00] trying to get as much information as possible, but it helps for the conspiracy that it takes so much time between Bilbo and Frodo’s birthday, Bilbo’s eleventy first, and the time he actually leaves, what did we say, seventeen years later?

So that big time gap, something is happening when you take the time gap out. It’s hard to make that happen in that short period of time. So he chose, he chose not to do that. I think it’s a little bit strange. Cause I like the fact that they were co conspirators and all that kind of stuff, but they’re not in the movie, just in the book.

TJ: I think that’s a good point, that the pacing of the movie, I believe they run into them on Farmer Maggot’s Farm and then immediately are together running from the Ringwraiths correct and because they have a shared enemy in the scary horse rider. They’re like, okay. Well, I guess we’re [00:35:00]partners now 

Tim: Yeah, 

TJ: and they do show up in the film.

That’s an interest a weird change. 

Tim: They do show up before that in the film They’re at Bilbo’s party birthday party, but they weren’t part of see them. You know that they’re there You know that they’re mischievous and things like that, so you do get a taste for them before you find them in Farmer Maggot’s Farm.

Frodo spends two weeks in the book suffering from the Morgul blade shard from the Witch King before being healed by the elves in Rivendell. He was unwell, but able to continue the journey with the party for a period of time in the book, even limping his way into Rivendell. In the film, this wound is far more dire, urgent, and short lived, when Arwen, Not Glorfindel, as in the book, retrieves him to rush to Rivendell.

He is essentially bedridden, or horse ridden, I guess, before being healed. So we have a very different kind of quickness to the [00:36:00] movie, to the film, than we do in the book. There again, the pace is changed for a film. 

TJ: In the book, was the Witch King’s blade, like a shard of it, stuck in his shoulder? 

Tim: Yes.

TJ: Goodness. 

Tim: Yes, it stayed in his shoulder. For two weeks? Uh, yes, in the book. Uh, they, they were able to remove the rest of it once they got to Rivendell. So he was good, and then he was bad, and he, some days he was better than others, but he, his shoulder and arm were getting colder and colder. 

Donna: Something in the book that was a little bit longer and making it Shortening it, but, but you still get the urgency of it.

Frodo got so sick, so quickly. And was there, was there a part in the book where, uh, Aragorn said, Oh, Sam, do you know such and such a plant go, go get that? Because it might, I don’t remember reading that. He 

Tim: talks about, I think he talks in the [00:37:00] book about using the plant. 

Donna: Yeah. But I thought that was clever in the movie.

You know, you’re, you’re showing Sam’s concern and his. You know, his knowledge, but also his knowledge. Yeah, that he could be he could be useful and a 

TJ: lot of good stuff in the film. I think, um, clearly a lot of the inspiration for Dungeons and Dragons. That was taken from Lord of the Rings. Yeah. Might be even clearer in the books, me reading them.

Yeah. Than it was, than it would be just watching the movie. I think it’s funny that Aragorn is mentioned constantly as a ranger. You know, he’s mentioned as a ranger in the movie, but I feel like every chapter it’s like, Yes, the ranger, the strider. Right. Yes, he’s been, he’s been in the wilderness and he’s an expert.

Tracker and Hunter and all these things. 

Rebekah: Yeah, well, it’s very, there’s a lot of like, you know, races and classes in D& D is very like you can see the influence of that from things like Lord of the Rings. Uh, like [00:38:00] you can like very easily race and class everyone in the cast and all of the main characters and stuff like some of those are interesting.

There’s lots of interesting like combat and adventuring. I think the difficult part for me and the reason why it still didn’t totally click. Was because My least favorite part of D& D are when you have like long travel sequences, when you’re just kind of on the road and chatting and getting to know each other and talking about what you’re going to do next.

Like, those are literally like my least favorite times. And I feel like the book is 80 

TJ: percent of 

Rebekah: that. Yes, I don’t like character development pieces. Yeah, that goes along. 

TJ: you don’t like friends, you don’t like having friends. 

Rebekah: That’s a comedy. Oh, the show Friends? Or have, I like having friends in real life.

TJ: Having friends is a comedy. It’s a farce. No, I thought 

Rebekah: you meant the show. But like, I don’t, I don’t like stuff that’s just like, here, learn about how these people grew as people. It’s like, I don’t care. [00:39:00] Are they cutting people’s heads off? Are they shooting them? So when they ride through the artifacts?

Donna: When they’re on the river and the two kings are standing on the side that are like a hundred thousand feet tall or whatever. So that scene is just really, it just is meaningless to you because, and Aragorn’s like, oh, I’ve always wanted to see the kings of old and my family and he’s, they’re looking up.

Tim: Boromir says that I think. 

Donna: Boromir says it? 

Tim: I think it is because he hasn’t seen, he hasn’t come this far. Aragorn is the one that’s traveled so far. I think. 

Donna: I thought it was him talking to, I thought it was Aragorn talking to Frodo. 

Tim: It could be. But either way, yeah, 

Donna: I did. It doesn’t matter. 

Tim: We watched the same movie at the same time last night.

Donna: But the point of the scene would be for Rebecca, that’s just kind of this. Okay. It’s, they’re riding through the river. It’s majestic at whatever. Let’s go on to something, you know, 

Rebekah: I mean, then I get it. Foreshadowing is fine. I, foreshadowing is fine. I think I’m talking about [00:40:00] like, like, there’s so much where the hobbits just talk about.

Missing the Shire. Okay, that, I don’t know, that, that kind of stuff, like, it just, it’s just not something that interests me because I, it’s just, I don’t know. I don’t mean to say like, I’m not, I’m not trying to be shallow. I just don’t like stuff like that. I don’t like poetry. I don’t like. Like, I’m not even, like, those kinds of things, like, having, I literally skipped reading all the songs in the book because I was like, this is just filler.

Like, I just could not, I don’t get it. It doesn’t resonate with me at all. 

TJ: You should apologize to Nathan. Probably. 

Rebekah: Mistborn, I like poetry, Brandon Sanderson stuff is probably the slowest moving fantasy that I will tolerate, but I’m learning, I like sci fi fantasy, but in the fantasy stuff I read, I need it to be really fast paced, because like the, the world building and lore, like that’s the thing that I And just the most bored [00:41:00] by in D and D, in addition to stories like I’ll do some world building and I know what’s happening for my D and D campaigns, but like Nathan’s writing a D and D campaign where he’s got pages and pages of world building about the, the planet we’re on and the country we’re in and all of these things that will.

almost likely never come up in the campaign, but he wants to know all of these things about it. And I am sure Josiah has all of that done for his world. And that kind of like, I remember, I don’t like history in real life either. Like I’m just interested in what’s going to happen next that I find interesting.

TJ: What about after reuniting with Frodo and his friends? Do you remember when Gandalf shares a bit of his story of being trapped by Saruman on his tower? It affected, you know, his ability to travel back to the Shire. That kind of explains everything in the book as to why Gandalf took all that time. Now, that was at the Council of Elrond, right?

No, no, no, he briefly mentioned he said it at the Council of Elrond. 

Tim: He said, I’m sorry, I’ve taken too long, but I needed to tell that whole story. I think [00:42:00] that’s part of that at the Council. Yeah. 

TJ: I was shook when he was telling everyone that at the Council of Elrond. In the film, it happens on screen, including a fight scene between the two powerful wizards and including a later scene of Gandalf’s escape.

I could not comprehend J. R. R. Tolkien writing that as like, Yeah, this thing happened in the film. You think he put less 

Tim: importance on it? Less oomph in it? Oh yeah, Saruman 

TJ: never appears. In the book. 

Donna: Yeah. 

TJ: I thought, I, I guess, I, I guess I expected there to be some chapters from Gandalf’s point of view. 

Rebekah: I realized there were a couple of different changes where, like with Arwen and Aragorn, the thing that happened was like in the appendices.

And so I was surprised that all we got from Gandalf about his Fight with Saruman was also like not expanded in the [00:43:00] appendices. It’s not like they went to his point of view because the point is in the main book, we’re seeing everything from the Hobbit’s perspective. We’re not seeing anything outside of their experiences.

And so this seems like an interesting one to me that you wouldn’t have at least put in the appendices, but I think it was obviously a really good choice to put this in the movie. 

TJ: Did you realize the moth that Gandalf whispers to in the film on Mann’s Tower was born just before filming the scene and died soon after the film was finished?

Donna: Did he breed a moth for it?

I mean, that’s, I wonder if much wrote that down. 

Rebekah: His trivia, knowing like the lifespan of moths and was just like, you know what? I can use this useless trivia to make you more useless trivia. 

TJ: Okay. On the fandom, this says the moths. is the name given to the non canonical small moth that comes to Ganondorf occasionally forewarning the eagles are coming or used by him to summon [00:44:00] them.

Controversy, the moth does not appear in the books, although it is possible that it indirectly appears as Radagast the Brown sends to Ganondorf that he would send any messengers for help. I can’t find any behind the scenes.

Donna: Um, another thing I got from that is they’re special, which this is so funny because you’re going to find out at the end of this, it’s not special about, nothing special about this.

Moths are special because they appear when Gandalf needs them, but it, it’s unclear if they’re truly magical. Hmm. But in the lifespan, in what we know about the lifespan of moths, the trivia is probably true. Wait, what is the lifespan of moths? Well, let me tell you. 

TJ: Yeah, I mean, the lifespan of moths is like 42 to 56 days.

Donna: But that’s the lifespan of a silk moth. This was how long do house moths 

TJ: live? Well, let me, let me tell you. The species, on the, on the wiki [00:45:00] page. I just want you to know, I 

Rebekah: am not paying any attention to this conversation anymore. I’m just waiting for you to get 

TJ: through it. Rebecca, listen to this, listen to this.

The moth? Was previously believed by fans to be an Anthuraea polyphemus However, as the species is a North American native And filming took place in New Zealand Fans now believe it to be a male Opidiphthura eucalypti A eucalyptus moth. 

Donna: So if moths really only live for maybe 

TJ: a couple weeks, 

Donna: maybe a couple weeks, you know, if this took a whole day of filming, maybe it was stressful to the moth and he had heart issues.

We don’t know. So, are we done talking about moths? 

Rebekah: We’re still talking about moths? I just looked up the availability of the second book at my Barnes and Noble, and then I got bored because you were still talking about moths, so I looked up the availability of the third book, and both of them are now available at my Barnes and Noble, which is where I’m going to go to decompress after this.

TJ: Would it make you [00:46:00] more interested if I said the moths were involved in an extensive action scene? 

Rebekah: Yes. Yeah. It would definitely make it more interesting. Another plot change. The council of Elrond in the book doesn’t end with a bunch of commitments to accompany Frodo. Instead, Frodo said he himself should go to have the ring destroyed.

Then the hobbits. Spend over two months in Rivendale before departing. Uh, during the council. Elrond himself seems to choose who will be in the fellowship. The film, in contrast, features a moving scene where the fellowship members, these new three people, essentially other, and the Hobbits who’ve already committed to be with Frodo, uh, stand up valiantly to volunteer their lives.

Mm. I think this was way better in the movie. He has my sword and my ax like, and my bow like, I thought that was really well done. Parodied 

Tim: in the IT crowd later when, when Roy says, and you have my bunny bracelet. 

Donna: Yes. [00:47:00] It’s hard not to hear that. Yeah. Eiffel Tower. I think it made it mean more, like it was significant that these were the only ones and all of the people in the council were brave men.

There’s not no thought that they wouldn’t be, but. 

Tim: There’s one tiny correction. Um, they’re very, very careful to say. Uh, that the ring can’t be destroyed. It has to be unmade. That’s why it has to go to Mount Doom. 

Donna: Yeah. They’re not going 

Tim: to destroy the ring. They’re going to unmake it. 

Donna: When the Fellowship departs from Rivendell, the film shows a scene in which Elrond and Aragorn briefly discuss Aragorn’s vital role as the heir to the throne of Gondor.

While the two have a positive but mostly off screen relationship throughout the books, this conversation is added. to the movie, most likely to foreshadow this important subplot. So, uh, again, good [00:48:00]addition. Gives you a little more meat to the story, meat to the characters. 

Rebekah: You handhold the movie audience a little bit, making sure that they understand what’s happening.

Tim: This next change is something that I think is important and it takes a great lot of narrative stuff from the book and turns it into a visual, a small visual moment. In the book, Bilbo doesn’t freak out on seeing the ring when Frodo dons his armor. The film shows Bilbo very briefly, Hissing at his nephew when he sees the ring before apologizing to Frodo for his outburst.

When Bilbo exposes a horrific face as he covets the ring in Rivendell, it was a rubber puppet that was superimposed over Sir Ian Holm’s face. Holm was so impressed with it, the design team had a cast iron version made and presented it to Holm when he shot his final scene. I think this was a really good way to take all of the narrative about Bilbo missing the ring and it was [00:49:00] You know, it kept a hold on him and a lot of narrative stuff throughout the book that talks about that and kind of putting it in this one moment.

He is still consumed by the ring and it is still evil. 

TJ: Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was a really good addition for sure. Yeah. Keeping the stakes high. 

Donna: And it enhances the, the evil nature of the ring to see Bilbo transform in that moment and then realize what he’s done and, and. Become so repentant over it. And I think that 

TJ: it’s a great while also allowing Bilbo to remain a good guy who withstands the ring for, I guess, love of his nephew and love of, and hatred of evil.

Yeah. Yes. The book also, uh, there’s a book line that you’ll recognize. Well, you’ll recognize the movie line. You shall not pass very memorable. But Gandalf says before defeating the Balrog being drawn down to his death. Uh, in the book, I thought it was funny, he repeats, You [00:50:00] cannot pass. Which I believe Gandalf says once in the film, And then he says, You shall not pass.

But he repeats, You cannot pass. You cannot pass. And I thought that was very notable, because it’s so famous, I think people who have never seen Lord of the Rings know that that’s a line. When I saw the 

Tim: film and I heard him say, you cannot pass, I thought, have I misquoted that all this time? And then the second time he says, you shall not pass, you know, and I thought, that’s the line.

It’s cute. 

Rebekah: I really, that’s so good. Like, it is probably one of the best delivered movie lines like in an epic like this. It’s, it’s excellent. 

Tim: And in our family, there are two lines that I have oft repeated when speaking to, to you guys. One is when you say, I have an idea or whatever. And my response is keep a secret, keep it safe, just like the ring.

And the other one. You know, you shall not pass. 

Rebekah: When approaching Lothlorien in the book, the elves that are accompanying the, the [00:51:00] fellowship say that Gimli must wear a blindfold because they mistrust the dwarves and it’s in their law because he’s not supposed to know how to get to Lothlorien. He obviously gets really angry.

Gimli does not like this. So to assuage his anger, Aragorn insists that the entire party wear blindfolds as they approach. So in the book, they, for multiple days, are traveling blindfold, being led by the elves, and then finally, before they arrive, Galadriel sends word to the elves taking them in that she knows of the visitors.

I believe she says that she gets the information from Elrond about who’s coming, but she does not require this. So none of this is in the movie. Their trip to Lothlorien is much shorter, um, I think it took like a week or two weeks, um, in the, in the book after, you know. 

TJ: Oh, you don’t say, it didn’t take three years?

I wouldn’t put it past the book. Yeah, 

Rebekah: true. 

Tim: I think Middle Earth is, I think Middle Earth is smaller in the [00:52:00] films. 

Rebekah: Oh, yeah. 

Tim: Because, because physically it doesn’t take as long to get to places as it does in the book. 

Rebekah: Well, did you, I think, I looked this up, but I don’t remember the exact number. I looked up, though, what somebody said was the total number of days between Gandalf telling Frodo that he has to protect the ring or whatever in the films and it actually being unmade in the fires of Mount Doom.

Do you remember? 

Tim: I would say six months to a year. 

Rebekah: I think 

Donna: it’s longer. 

Rebekah: So, not including those 17 years, it says that it takes between one to three years in the books for them to get from the beginning to the end. Some places, oh yeah, and that, there’s like a, one thing that says nine months, not accounting for time jumps between Gandalf leaving Bag End and Gollum, something or other.

But if I remember the thing that I had found, and maybe this was just on screen days and didn’t count the times that people were passed out or whatever, [00:53:00] but there was one thing I saw that there were like 39 days. on screen. 

TJ: That’s it. 

Rebekah: Like that’s all. Everything happened on screen in 39 days, but there might have been some like breaks and stuff.

Anyway, I don’t know if that’s true, but 

Tim: I think it was a different season when they got back when they do the final ending. So I don’t think it was a year. I 

Rebekah: don’t think they intended it to be. Anyway. So I think Tolkien did a really good job in the book of telling you who Aragorn is. Like developing him as a leader slowly.

Yeah, and I think this was one of those where I was like, Oh, he’s a good leader. Like he’s a, he’s a thoughtful, humble leader. And I really liked that. 

TJ: I would agree with Aragorn being a good leader. Um, as far as, um, the time goes of things. I thought it was interesting. Oh gosh. Well, it’s the beginning of the second book.

That Gimli, Aragorn, and Legolas cross, I want to say 30 leagues in four days, which is like 90 miles, [00:54:00] isn’t it? Oh my. Yeah, so it’s like, uh, that would be 28, 27, 28 miles a day. 

Tim: Mm 

TJ: hmm. And, uh, you know, if you’re Which 

Tim: kind of makes sense. 

TJ: Yeah, I mean, 100 miles, that’s, is that the height of Tennessee? 

Tim: I don’t know, but when you run a marathon, it’s a, it’s 20 miles, right?

26. 26 miles. 

TJ: 26. 

Tim: So, I mean, it’s, it’s humanly possible. 

Rebekah: 120 miles tall on a map is how long Tennessee is. 

TJ: You know, in four days, they were very impressively crossing the height of Tennessee. Those would be small countries, but you know, that’s, that’s a distance that could conceivably be a different, especially in Europe, a different country.

Well, also about Galadriel, I have another thought. In the, in the book, she passes the test of declining the ring. Very introspectively, it’s very Somber, I found it. Frodo kind of offers the [00:55:00] One Ring to Galadriel, but in the film, when she’s processing this offer, it is very dramatic. Much more intense and external.

She becomes This CGI witch and with a CGI voice and all will, all will love me. The 

Tim: queen and all will love me 

TJ: in fear. Yeah, well, yeah, whatever. She’s terrifying. Terrifying. Very spooky in the movie. And I think that it works. I think in the book, I think in the book, it just decreases the urgency. And I think in the film, her being spooky.

It increases the tension of, wait, wait, is she, she’s a good guy, right? Or is there a risk here? And then you’re not really at ease. I don’t, I think Peter Jackson knew to not let you be at ease from the moment you realized the ring was dangerous. 

Tim: I think you used the correct word. Between the book and the film, there is [00:56:00] the addition of urgency.

Hmm. And it, everything is urgent. Mm-hmm . They’re right on our tail. They’re, they’re coming. It has to be done now. It has to be. Yeah. So there’s that urgency. I, I think that’s the word. And that’s probably what Peter Jackson did that Tolkien did not do. There was not as much urgency, uh, it was necessary.

Urgency wasn’t part of it. It didn’t seem to be right. 

Rebekah: Well, and it’s interesting, I mean, in the book, the way he structures it, I understand why it doesn’t feel as urgent because it’s like, it’s been 1, 500 years since the last war, Saruman’s been here, what you said, 2, 000 years. Like, everything is on this, like, really long time scale.

And so, a hobbit that lives a hundred years, it’s like, yeah, who cares if I wait 17 to leave? Like, it’s not a big deal because there wasn’t some active threat going. It’s just, like, this eventually needs to happen, but Gandalf needed to gather information and all those things. So, but Gandalf, too, would [00:57:00] be just as old as Saruman, I assume, right?

And so, it makes sense that he writes it without as much urgency, but it also makes sense to do a movie. 

Tim: Yeah. I wonder if, if the timing of when, when the novels were written, if that had a lot to do with it as well, because if you’re going to keep that kind of urgency in a book, for instance, it’s going to keep people, um, in an agitated state, they’re going You know, keep pushing through because you’ve, I’ve got the read to the next page.

You got to read to the next page. And I’ve heard some or seen some reviews of books where people said it’s a page turner. You just, I just couldn’t put it down until I was done. And I’m not sure that’s how people read books. Previously in previous generations, they would have read it as a every evening or, you know, and pick up tomorrow and that, that sort of thing.

I wonder if there’s, there’s a difference in the way [00:58:00] people read and what they expect from books. I mean, what are some of the biggest, most important classics over the last hundred years? And do you think? The type of book they are kind of has changed over time. They’re less fast paced. 

TJ: Well, a quick Google AI search implies that Stephen King and Let me just check that this is not insane.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Google AI says that’s Agatha Christie and then to a greater extent Stephen King were some of the earliest pioneers of the page turner. Gotcha. Sort of commercial fiction genre. 

Tim: That fits, that fits with what I was thinking. 

Donna: And the fact that you look that up on Google AI definitely proves dad’s point that reading and researching and taking in information has changed over the generations.

Tim: We are very, we’re very fast paced. Yeah, we no longer sit around the dinner table and [00:59:00]wonder if that actor is still alive. By the time he finished asking the question, somebody’s already Googled it. 

Donna: Yeah. So the, so from the movie’s perspective. Like you were saying that that sense of urgency I think is critical to the to the success of the movies 

Rebekah: Yeah And I mean I think some of the the classics of the last so this book is 70 years old some of the classics of The last say 25 years you could probably consider in the fantasy genre Harry Potter Although that’s obviously starts as middle grade kind of ends as a young adult Hunger Games is in that like dystopian side of things Game of Thrones, which Game of Thrones would be an example of one that’s not quite as much of a page turner, right?

It’s like more drawn out and like it’s a slower pace on purpose. 

TJ: I suppose, I mean, there’s probably more action. There’s probably more action in Game of Thrones than there is in in Lord of the Rings, even though it’s like three times longer. Mm hmm. I, I think that George Martin when he wrote Game of Thrones was coming [01:00:00] right off of writing for TV.

Where you had to finish every 11 minutes with a cliffhanger commercial break. And he seems to have taken that format and really mastered the cliffhanger, in my opinion. 

Rebekah: I was also, the same friend I was talking to about the avatar thing last night mentioned he’s a, he’s an author as well. And he said that one of the things he kind of hates about all of the author education stuff online is that, The way they tell you to write chapters is every chapter has to end with a, even a little bit of a cliffhanger.

It’s like everything has to have a cliffhanger. Everything has to have a, Oh, I got to turn the page. I got to do this next. Whereas I think in Tolkien’s time, like he wrote this for an audience that was used to reading things. They were used to long drawn. I mean, it was what, like a hundred years ago that people used to memorize.

The entire Declaration of Independence, the entire constitution and entire massive swaths of things. Yeah, as part of elementary school. It’s like we’ve [01:01:00] changed the way we consume things to a degree that I don’t think anybody even really comprehends even at this point. Billie 

TJ: Eilish should make a Declaration of Independence song, then we can get it back in the curriculum.

Nice. And, 

Donna: and think about, um, it’s not a, it’s not fantasy genre, but you know, Gone with the Wind. Was the book is what a 48 hour, 48 hours with like audio read 

Tim: the amount of read. And 

Donna: so, you know, if you look at that thought, it’s not that there aren’t long reads that are, that are more current than that, but, but I think that to the point, I think it’s reading could become a lost art.

And I think that I don’t think it is becoming that. I think more people are actually finding more. Growth and depth in it, but 

Tim: yeah, one of the last things is a little little interesting tidbit Galadriel gives Sam Elven rope as they leave in the film in the book However, she gives him [01:02:00] soil to plant when he returns home Yeah, Marian Pippin’s gifts aren’t even in our aren’t even included in the film The well they they are in the film The extended version of the film, um, which I like that edition, especially in the extended version, because I, I just think there’s, I don’t know.

It just seems like it builds, builds more character, but it doesn’t take a lot of time. But apparently, you know, when they were doing the theatrical version, they decided that was time they could cut. 

Rebekah: There’s like a lot of, I, as I was looking stuff up, um, a couple of videos I watched, I looked at like the comments on videos and people, hate on the soil gift.

By the way, I thought it was so sweet in the book. I was like, this is like, I thought that was so sweet. It’s like so good for him. And people were like, it makes me think that’s the dumbest thing ever. Like, and it was just so funny. People hated it. There’s 

TJ: hope. It makes me think how nice it will be at [01:03:00] the end.

The hope. Yeah. Yeah. There’s hope he’ll get home because 

Donna: they really don’t know if they’ll ever see home again. They have no idea. Would it 

Tim: interest you to know that it took Tolkien Between 11 and 12 years to write this trilogy. That’s a lot of time to, a lot length of time to write it. Mm-hmm . So just shortly after World War ii, if he published in 54, 

Donna: uh, the Fellowships fight with the Orcs and Bora Me’s death are both added to the end of this film, fellowship of the Ring.

Although the events don’t take place until the very beginning of the two towers book and just. Let me tell you that having already read these and seen the movies, that was a good choice because there’s a lot of dark in the two towers. And I think it’s still good. I think I love it in the whole scope of the trilogy.

I’m okay with, with that and what goes on, but I think it was smart [01:04:00] to. Put this, put this at the end of the first film and you know, Sean Bean, he’s going to die anyway, so you need to get him 

Tim: out of it. He doesn’t want pain for a second movie. You know, there’s stuff that’s in the Two Towers film that comes from the third book as well.

So the Two Towers is adjusted at either end to make the story fit a little better for movies. 

TJ: Mm hmm. 

Donna: Let’s move on into a little bit of basic information and some numbers trivia. Um, the book release, as we had mentioned before, it was 1954 on July 29th. The movie release was released on December 10th, 2001 in Odeon, Leicester Square, where else, what other movies were?

Very good. Pastor Tim. Um, Odeon. 

Rebekah: These came out. Near the same time, like that’s 

Donna: OD and Chester Square, I guess is [01:05:00] that famous place like we have in la. Oh yeah. And yeah. Yeah. Um, and then it was released nine days later on December 19th and the. U. S. and December 20th in New Zealand. 

Rebekah: This is like a side note just because you mentioned like Harry Potter and stuff being released.

I was listening to my favorite podcast today and they were just talking, somebody asked a question for them about what movie in the last like 20 years or in the last 15 years, what movie or movies have been released that you think will change the course of Like moviemaking, you know how there’s kind of these like phases where things change.

And all of these people who, by the way, are like writers, like that work, they have been working on an indie movie. Like they are in the film industry. They were like, none, like movies suck now. And I thought it was really interesting in the last 10 to 15. Yeah. 

Tim: But if you expand that, you’ve got things that actually did change, like.

Star Wars, and [01:06:00] The Lord of the Rings. Now, they’re, obviously, they’re more than 20 years ago. To, to think of how much those movies Change the industry and then to think about the last 20 years and think, I’m not sure what 

Donna: has, you know, but I think 10 to 15 is significant because I don’t know. What does that say about our society?

Because I, I kind of agree with them. I kind of agree with them. What, what is there been movies we liked? And that movies that wowed us, you know, impress us or inspired us or whatever, but not, not to the extent that this did or that I think we can agree that the Harry Potter films weren’t as, weren’t movie masterpieces like these three movies were, but yeah.

Tim: Well, Josiah, you’re really into theatrical movies. Would you agree with 

Donna: that? 

TJ: Yeah, well, I think it’s funny to hate on recent movies, but I think that it’s just too soon to know what will have an impact. There’s things I hope will have an impact. Like, I [01:07:00] hope that Oppenheimer will change the way we make movies going forward, because I loved it so much.

I think it was so well done in so many ways. I wish that Birdman from ten years ago Oh, I would think Birdman was great. 

Donna: Oh, gosh. Yeah, 

TJ: but like, did it really inspire a lot of movie making 

Tim: inspired generation? Yeah, 

TJ: honestly, like Birdman and Whiplash feel like they were connected, but they were released in the same year.

So I don’t think they could have been. Yeah, it’s just like good mood like parasite. Is that? Has that inspired people to make movies that are like suspense comedies? You know, have we given ourselves enough time to be inspired by these things? Um, but like if you’re being honest, like what movies made a difference?

You didn’t say make a positive difference, I don’t think. No, the question was just 

Rebekah: change movie names. 

TJ: Influence. 

Rebekah: Interesting. Influential. [01:08:00] Yeah, so 

TJ: everything is a franchise. I’d say that, you know, The Beauty and the Beast remake from 2017, the, uh, first Avengers movie in 2012, that’s probably the most impactful years.

That one definitely, oh my gosh, 

Rebekah: made a huge difference. I think the whole, I think the whole 

Tim: MCU probably had that kind of. Effect, uh, the, the franchise connect, connect all of these disparate movies Avengers 

TJ: was when they proved that it worked. 

Tim: We can now put them together. They seem like they fit. But you 

Donna: also, would you also agree that that was like an era of, that was almost like toward the end of that era of making, before Avengers.

three or four movies making the trilogy into a four movie thing and you had that go for a little bit and then you had the Avengers tile this together and then once. That once in the game ended, you almost, it was almost like audience was like, okay, [01:09:00] we were, we’re done with that. Let’s don’t do that anymore.

Cause should they, we’re talking about 

TJ: influential film. Yeah. And then I’m like, I’m surprised. Was there a film that I’m just thinking like what films change the way that we. Consume movies. Inception, uh, 

Tim: in several ways.

TJ: I 

Tim: think there are some that wanted to change, to change the way, what’s the, uh, what’s the one that took, was supposed to be kind of set in the 60s, this little town where it had an on ramp to the interstate that didn’t exist.

Um, do you remember which one I’m talking about? I vaguely 

Rebekah: remember what you’re talking 

Tim: about. It, the woman who plays Black Widow was in it, um, 

Donna: Oh, Step, not Step for Wives. No, 

Tim: no, it was, it was, Kind of comical. It had a whole bunch of stars in it. Um, it was about an alien, aliens coming down, but it was set kind of in the 60s.

Pass on by that. I, I will look up the name. The Wes Anderson one? Yeah, maybe. 

Donna: Oh. Oh. What was 

Tim: it called? Do you remember? Asteroid City? That’s it. That’s the one I’m thinking about. Oh, Asteroid [01:10:00] City. Asteroid City. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it, I think it was trying to be that. I, I think it was, we’re strange enough, weird enough, different enough.

We’re trying a completely different kind of movie. And I’m also surprised. I’m not sure it worked, 

Donna: though. I’m also surprised that they didn’t mention Christopher Nolan. Because his, because he does stand alones. It doesn’t do, you know. I mean, I’m 

Rebekah: not saying I agree with their take. I just thought it was interesting because.

You know, Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings were released around the same time. Like, when’s the last time that anything that good and interesting, Yeah, that’s true. When’s the last time that that many movies that interesting were actually released around the same time? That’s kind of crazy. 

TJ: I think our kids will look back on the 2020s, well, maybe the mid to late 2020s, and think similar things, but, uh, I mean, I think the Barbie movie is going to be really influential.

I think Greta Gerwig, that director, is probably, you know, I don’t want to [01:11:00] be, I don’t want to be generalizing, but she’s probably the best female film director who’s ever lived. Which it’s not a high bar, unfortunately, there haven’t, we haven’t given females a lot of chances. Well, you remember that Twilight was the biggest film a female had ever directed at the time, and it was awful.

Donna: Yeah. Isn’t it still? 

TJ: Well, and I think Barbie had beat it. 

Donna: Okay. 

TJ: Um, there might’ve been something since then, but you know, we’ve only given women a solid 20 years of being allowed to make films. Uh, so, you know, I think we’re getting some more female filmmakers. Did we stop 

Donna: them before? 

TJ: I mean, the patriarchal Hollywood’s well, cause you know, you can, yeah, it’s systemic.

You, you can, you can say like, well, I don’t want to be a big feminist, but you know, you can just blame it on Harvey Weinstein. We all hate Harvey Weinstein. So people like Harvey Weinstein kept, kept women down and, uh, I mean, I can see where you’re, I don’t know where you’re 

Donna: thinking there. I think I can see, 

TJ: yeah, I [01:12:00] mean, I, I don’t, I think we have, we’re going to have a lot of recency bias on these sorts of things 

Donna: and also the 

TJ: rings had an undeniable impact.

Donna: Uh, the book rating on good reads is, is a 4. 4. That’s over 45, 000 reviews and 2. 9 million ratings. So just super high, pretty solid. Yeah. I mean, 50, 70-year-old book. Right. Um, had a lot of time for a lot of ratings, but, uh, the movie ratings look similar in Strength. Rotten Tomatoes has is a 92% fresh. It’s an 8.9 out of 10 on IMDB.

The flicker audience score the popcorn meter as a, as a solid 95, and they. I noticed, uh, it made a comment that it still holds that, uh, which I thought was interesting. Um, the production cost of the first movie is 93 million. Which doesn’t sound that high. That’s like, 

Rebekah: well, a lot of 

Tim: [01:13:00] senior period, 

Rebekah: I 

Donna: guess.

For the time period, it could have been a lot of 

Tim: practical. There’s a lot of practical effects though, small people, large people. That was a lot of practical stuff. 

Donna: Yeah, that’s true too. Um, the opening weekend, it made 47 million, which could have been a little concerned if you think about it from the production staff thinking, Oh, that period 

Rebekah: of time you want to make back that amount 

Donna: you want to get back 

Rebekah: in, right.

Donna: The USA Canada gross, it ran from December through into April, the first one. Oh my. In, in some theaters. Yeah. Uh, it was total of 319 million in the USA and Canada, 568 million worldwide. And then for a gross, uh, for an all total of 888 million, which in 2024, 2025 dollars is 1. 57 billion. So I think that’s pretty awesome.

Um, wild. [01:14:00] It’s. Hard to even think about it, and you just wrap your head around that. Uh, it was rated PG 13, which I was very thankful he kept these at PG 13. I’m sure that was intentional to, to broaden your audience. Um, and it was, this one was filmed fully in, all of them in New Zealand. 

Tim: Well, connecting to the conversation of influential films, which you may want to squeeze it together.

In national and international surveys of both critics and the public, Fellowship of the Rings is one of the greatest and most influential films ever made. In 2007, the American Film Institute put Fellowship in the 100 greatest American films in history. It’s the most recent. An only film released in the 21st century to make that list.

The film was selected in 2021 for preservation in the U. S. National Film Registry by the Library of Congress for being, quote, [01:15:00] culturally, historically, and aesthetically significant, end quote. 

Donna: So, to ping your friends on the podcast, Rebecca, I guess the American, I guess that the American Film Institute kind of agrees with them.

Kind of do. Yeah. It’s 

Rebekah: interesting. So, before filming began in October of 99. English Olympic fencer and film choreographer Bob Anderson trained with the principal actors for six weeks teaching them sword fighting. They also used this time to learn about riding horses and boating and they studied pronouncing Tolkien’s verses properly.

Tim: Wow. Pronunciation must have been wild. 

Rebekah: Well, I’m sure they had a lot of decisions to make because they had to choose, you know, how to creatively do that. And so that it would be consistent. 

Donna: And I thought it was, uh, another little part of that that I didn’t expand on was just that, um, Jackson really hoped that [01:16:00] those, that the fellowship, it was the nine of them that focused on this training, that he really hoped that it would also kind of bind them together.

Tim: Yep. Well, there were lots of things that were supposed to help bind them together, um, if I’m not mistaken. I believe that the four primary hobbits were, were, um, filming together without the rest of the cast for a period of time because he wanted them to get very connected as friends so that it would show.

Yeah. 

Donna: Um, in their 15 plus months of filming and living in New Zealand, the cast took up surfing as one of their pastimes. Viggo Mortensen wiped out so badly in one jaunt, he bruised his whole face on one side. 

TJ: Makeup 

Donna: artists tried to fix it, however they could, the next day, but they couldn’t. So as a result, in the entire scene in the tomb of the Mines of Moria, we only [01:17:00] see Aragorn from one side.

That’s so interesting. It just didn’t work. And I want to go, I want to go back and watch it. 

Rebekah: Why wouldn’t you, why wouldn’t you just like. Film him getting injured and then just keep the injury. Film him getting smacked by one of the 

Donna: characters. Yeah, I don’t know. Why not? 

TJ: See that? Well also, after the shoot, nine members of the fellowship got a tattoo of the elvish symbol for the number nine.

The exception was John Rhys Davies, whose stunt double got the tattoo instead. I wonder if 

Donna: he just had like an aversion. I couldn’t find anything that said why he chose not to. I can’t believe 

TJ: it. Because he’s He is a man of faith, I think. I wonder if that had anything to do with that. Um, Sean Astin and Billy Boyd chose to have their tattoo on their ankles.

Tim: A place that I can only imagine was painful, but still. 

TJ: I can only imagine it was to commemorate the hours in those [01:18:00] hobbit, which would’ve also 

Tim: been painful. 

TJ: Peter Jackson also got a tattoo, the Elvis symbol for number 10. He really wanted to be Innclusive. 

Tim: Yeah, he was the 10th member of the fellowship.

They, 

Donna: um, I read, I couldn’t find the exact number, but Aston. And Elijah Wood complained on, at several points, like in interviews and stuff, they would, they would complain kind of in jest because they had to have those feet put on so many times. And when they looked at what, what time they were actually filmed showing their feet, it was like a minute fraction of the time.

And they hated those hobbit 

TJ: feet. 

Donna: Yeah. 

Rebekah: Uh, Sir Ian McKellen. I did not plan to smack his forehead on the ceiling beam bag end. It was a total accident, but his response was so good that Jackson kept it in. I love that moment. 

Tim: Yes. I find that, love it. Wonderful. 

Donna: That’s awesome. Building on this [01:19:00] prosthetic, cause I wondered how much, I wondered if he had.

Face prosthetics too, and 

Tim: yeah, he kind 

Donna: of looked for some of that, but I don’t know. Saruman’s 

Tim: noses were prosthetic. Yeah, they were added to Saruman’s. Yeah. 

Donna: Other little tidbits about prosthetics. One, over 1600 pairs of latex ears and feet were used, being cooked in a special oven that ran 24 7. Since the feet could not be removed without suffering damage, each pair could only be used once.

What fun for the prop people, John Rhys Davies had such a harsh reaction to his prosthetics, especially around his eyes. He had to take a full day off between shoots so he could heal. The least time he spent in the makeup chair was three hours at a time. 

Rebekah: Which does make me think maybe he didn’t get a tattoo because I wonder if he has really sensitive skin and he was afraid of that.

If that’s how he responded just to prosthetics. Yeah, 

Donna: for sure. Um, [01:20:00] and then. Sean Astin gained 30 pounds for the film. Now that, I mean, it’s a man made prosthetic. So, uh, Uh huh, uh huh, uh huh. Yeah. Wait, so he physically gained weight. His like prosthetic didn’t give 30 pounds. Oh, okay. They didn’t add belly. He added belly.

Tim: A tidbit on those, on those feet. Astin was wearing those feet when he, when he runs out into the river, um, at the very, toward the very end. And they were using a public place and there was a broken bottle under the water and he cut his foot and that they had to keep moving, um, they cut his foot in the film on a bottle under the water.

But 

Donna: he, but that whole scene was not filmed under the water. The underwater where he actually drowns. 

Tim: Yeah, not the underwater part, but when he’s running out of the water. 

Donna: When he’s running out there. But I also found that very fascinating. That underwater scene. Was filmed. He was just in a [01:21:00] room with a fan on it and blowing stuff around because I said to you, remember when we watched it, I said to you, 

Tim: how can you keep your mouth 

Donna: open that long when you’re drowning and like you can’t swim and you, you mentioned to me, well, yeah, if you don’t take a breath in, you can hold your mouth open.

Um, But I thought that was a very interesting little bit. 

TJ: Another interesting thing, I thought that being afraid to fly, Sean Bean would, for two hours each morning, in full Boromir attire, climb from the base of the snowy mountain to the top for filming the snowy scenes. So they didn’t have to make his hair 

Tim: look greasy and sweaty.

TJ: It really was. The cast could see him climbing as they were transported by helicopter. Bye bye. That guy’s 

Donna: hardcore. 

TJ: Well, 

Donna: wow. I mean, that’s hard fear too. Yeah. Has he not done all kinds of action adventure stuff and he’s afraid to fly? I 

TJ: think in a James Bond film, wasn’t he killed by a crashing helicopter?

Donna: Yikes. Yeah, [01:22:00] and didn’t he, didn’t he get to New Zealand by swimming or on a boat? Maybe. I mean, he doesn’t live in New Zealand. He literally 

Rebekah: could have taken a boat. He could have taken his own boat. I’ll cruise 

Tim: over and meet you guys. Well, uh, costume designer Nyla Dixon managed 40 seamstresses to create over 19, 000 costumes.

You know why there were so many? Because Jackson insisted that even the undergarments of the costuming would be authentic. So they were wearing actual undergarments that were never shown. Um, in addition to that, they made sure that all of the swords and things were actual weighted metal swords. Uh, none of, none of this plastic.

Fiberglass and stuff like that. All of those things were actually things that when they held them, they held, they had, you know, weight to them. Uh, he said it would add to the authenticity because they would always react properly. 

Rebekah: I will point [01:23:00] out that that is very interesting considering It’s authentic to fan, to a fantasy world.

It’s not like this was set in the 1600s and we want it to feel authentic to that real time period. It’s like, we want it to feel authentic to this thing, this place with magic. Well, 

TJ: Viggo Mortensen, in an attempt to remain in character at all times during filming, he kept his sword with him. I think Peter Jackson would approve.

He was questioned several times by local police after they saw. His training sessions and was then seen by members of the public. Bob Anderson, the fencer and trainer, said that Vigo was one of the greatest sword handlers he’d ever seen. 

Tim: That is pretty cool. And the first scene in the movie that he was in, the first one that was filmed, was the one on Weathertop where he’s fighting the Ringwraiths with the sword.

Amazing. 

Rebekah: Another person who really got into character, Liv Tyler, she changed her voice so much that her own [01:24:00] dad, Steven Tyler, thought it was dubbed by someone else. That’s impressive. And 

Tim: she loved speaking Elvish. 

Rebekah: Yeah, didn’t she like 

Donna: actually learn Elvish for this? Yeah. And would speak in it all the time, like the, to the point it would aggravate people because she didn’t want to leave.

She didn’t want to leave character. 

Rebekah: We mentioned Sean Bean. I just wanted to say this because I have thought about it so many times recently. Nathan is reading the Martian or he just finished and we haven’t watched the movie like with him, but he wants to watch it now and then he’ll listen to the episode or whatever.

And I just think it is still one of the cutest little, like. Cute little nods in a movie that I’ve ever seen that in the Martian, Sean Bean, who’s the director that he plays the director of NASA is the one they taught, like he’s the one explaining to their PR person that they are calling this the council of Elrond and she, the cool person there is the only one who doesn’t get it because it’s this nerdy thing from Lord of the Rings.

Tim: [01:25:00] Obviously you guys never went on dates. What’s 

Donna: from the council of Elrond? Yeah. What? What is that? Yeah. What is that? I hate all of you. 

Tim: You’ve never got dates. 

Rebekah: I just appreciate that so much. I just think it’s so cute. So, listeners, if you haven’t listened to our The Martian episode, you should, because it’s a good one.

And, uh, Sean Bean’s in that movie. So, yeah. And he doesn’t die. Yeah. Sean Bean, in fact, is not murdered in that movie, which is great. All right, let’s give our final verdicts for this first Lord of the Rings film. As we wrap up today, book to film adaptation. Um, I will go first. Mine’s pretty simple. I have never read Lord of the Rings until now for the podcast and I’m discovering what I love and what I don’t love when it comes to fantasy.

I know I love sci fi, I know I love dystopian fiction, but I’m more getting into fantasy as well now, and I’m kind of learning some of the, like, areas that are not as interesting to me. I personally did not enjoy reading the book. I thought, like, I understand that people who [01:26:00] probably enjoy poetry love the idea of all these songs being written out, and there’s a lot of, like, Sweeping, you know, travel moments and occasionally interesting things happen.

And it’s like, to me personally, that does not resonate. So I liked learning about Tom Bombadil. There were a few areas where I just was like, man, Tolkien, like objectively is such a good author. Like, I didn’t have a problem with that. I just did not really connect with the book in a general way. So this is a really hard read for me.

It’s just so slow paced. Um, the movie is. It’s so long. So very long. Um, and I am kind of picked on as a member of the family who’s not a big fan of the movies in the first place, which I was hoping was just because I hadn’t read the books. And as I’m discovering, I don’t think it’s because I haven’t read the book.

I think it might just be that I don’t really enjoy this. Um, did 

Donna: you watch and you, I’m assuming you did not watch the extended edition or no, 

Rebekah: that’s the one we own. I watched the extended edition, so it’s longer. [01:27:00] Um, so I would say book versus film. I definitely think the movie is better because it does introduce that level of urgency that for me as a watcher, I find more interesting than like, Oh, this thing might happen in like a couple of years if we don’t.

Something like that. Like that to me is not at all interesting. So I did appreciate the way that the film did that. So I think for what it is and when it was written, I obviously am aware that objectively it is an amazing book. The tale in general is so good. So I’m, you know, I’m not an idiot. I’m not actually that shallow.

I just did not connect with this. So, uh, I’m not looking forward to the fact that we’re doing the other two for my sake, but we’re doing it. My son loves this series. Like, you know, I know you guys love it. So I’m trying really hard to connect with it. It seems like something that I would like, but I’m like, I said, I’m just kind of like learning some of my preferences reading wise.

Um, like pulling out from it, it is [01:28:00] definitely an incredible tale. Like, I think it’s a, it’s a great story. It’s just the way it’s written. And like the kind of slow pace of it is just really challenging for me just as a general rule. 

Donna: I just love that you’re concerned. That we would be not happy that you didn’t like it when it’s okay that you don’t like it.

I’m, 

TJ: I’m furious. Well, 

Rebekah: I, every time I’ve told that to someone, it kind of feels, and not just you guys, but like, every time I said it, it makes me feel like there’s something stupid and wrong with me that I don’t like it. And so I don’t like having to justify what I like or don’t like. But you shouldn’t have to do that.

Donna: Yeah. 

Rebekah: That’s just. That’s my perspective. 

Donna: Well, I will go next. We’ll just do ladies first. How’s that? Since there’s not a lot of lady directors, as we’ve now found. Yeah. That’s right. Misogynists. 

Rebekah: Hate on all the ladies. Which is sad. You are the oldest white male of this patriarchal setup, and so it’s all your fault that there’s not a lot of female directors.

Tim: Yeah. It’s my fault. [01:29:00] Oh, 

TJ: wow. Okay. 

Donna: Oh, yeah. That’s why I love him. Uh, Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. I will go next. I, the first time I ever saw the movie, which was not long after it came out, I didn’t see it in the theater. It was creepy to me. Like I, I didn’t get into it. Like, uh, um, I wanted to, because I knew you’d read the book so many times when we were younger and, and had enjoyed them, but it didn’t resonate.

And I don’t know why later on in the You were 

Tim: concerned about the, the witchcraft. Yeah, I was. Maybe that was it. 

Donna: But as in the last. Probably maybe 10 years, I guess, since we’ve lived here, I’ve seen it again, seen the movie again and I fell in love with it. I fell in love with the, with the world and the nobility.

And I think for me personally, this wouldn’t be everybody, I think for me personally, as I’ve gotten, as I’ve gotten older, I’ve realized that I don’t want my [01:30:00] life to be useless. I don’t want to get to the end of my life and say, what, what did I do? What did I really do that was significant? Am I going to take a ring and save the whole world?

I don’t think I’m going to do that, but what can I do where I live in my corner of the world that would make a difference? And so this movie is very inspiring to me. Um, and, and so maybe even, maybe even to a little more granular level, you know, I was, I was, we grew up poor and didn’t have a lot and kind of in a, in a little mining town that seems insignificant in the whole scope of everything.

And so in my head, I look at the hobbits and I see what they were willing to do, even not realizing what they were getting into. And so I think it’s, it became inspired, inspirational to me. Um, I liked the movie. Better than the book, even though, uh, I did enjoy reading the book and expanding what I’d seen already [01:31:00] in the movie, but I did.

I did like the movie better. Um, maybe the sappiness of the love story drew me in a little farther. I don’t know. Um, but the, the visual of it. I could, I think I could almost turn the volume down and just watch the visual, um, experience of the whole thing. It was amazing. It is a 

Rebekah: beautiful, beautiful work of art.

Yeah. 

TJ: Mm hmm. And the, the visual effects pioneering that the film succeeded at. Was, was definitely a huge influence on a lot of filmmakers, but also audiences in general. And I think it’s one of the reasons that I would say the movie is, is better than the book. The book gets like a lot of points for, I don’t know how familiar, familiar you are, Rebecca, that Lord of the Rings invented the fantasy genre as anything [01:32:00] besides Uh, fairytales for kids.

Interesting. I think J. R. R. Tolkien has a quote. It’s like, it’s my greatest pride that I have succeeded in convincing the general public that the fairytale is a genre that adults can enjoy, not just children or something like that. He still called it a fairytale. Um, so it deserves a lot of points for that.

And obviously, there is no fantasy piece of art from the past 70 years that is not inspired by Lord of the Rings. And I don’t know of any other piece of art that really can say that. Like, what movie inspired all other movies? Citizen Kane, I guess, but it’s so far removed. But like, Lord of the Rings is directly responsible for all Fantasy Day.

It directly influenced Dungeons and Dragons. And Dungeons and Dragons [01:33:00] then influenced a lot of stuff. The influence is undeniable, but the movie Is a better story in most ways, it is, uh, better told, better paced, and the characters are stronger, and the visuals were executed masterfully, and not much was added, except, you know, what needed to move the plot along, and stuff was taken away that wasn’t.

Maybe would have slowed things down and casting was great. Obviously, the behind the scenes, there’s hours and hours and hours of those appendices in those DVDs of the hundreds of people who loved Lord of the Rings so much that they created something so beautiful as the film. So, like, without the love of the book, there is no film, obviously.

Without the book, there’s no film. But without the love of the book, there isn’t such a great film. So, even though the Books should not be discounted in any way. Uh, [01:34:00] it’s just, the film is such an improvement in so many ways, to me, that I’ll have to give it to the movie, for this one. 

Tim: Well, uh, I’ll be last, um, I love, I love the books, um, I’ve loved the books for years and years and years, and, since the movies have been made.

Uh, I too have to say that they’re an improvement. I love how much you expand the characters and all of the world building and everything in the books. And I think it’s still vital. I still love to read it. Uh, but, um, I, I too enjoy the, the pacing. I think Despite the fact that, of my age, and that things have changed so much since I’ve been alive, I think I’m product of the age in which we live.

And I like my information faster, I like things to move along, I don’t like it to take forever to get to a point. Uh, and [01:35:00] so You know, I like, I would have to give them probably 50 50 because of, of the fact that, you know, the book is so wonderful, but the movies really, really carry this to another generation, and to, uh, to people that, that like that, and I, and I fully enjoy them, so I guess I’m fully split.

All 

Rebekah: right. Well, I feel like that wraps us up for this episode. If you enjoyed it, please leave us a five star rating or review. Those are super helpful. And it’s been a while since we’ve gotten a good one. I mean, it’s been awhile since we’ve gotten one. Most of them are good. 

TJ: We’re 

Rebekah: also now live on Patreon.

Would love to have your support. You can subscribe for free. Or join a paid tier for some extra bonuses. Um, I really wanna do a d and d one shot, so if you would like to hear us, um, bumbling through that, that would be one of the cool bonus ideas that I have. , uh, for those who would like to join us at a paid tier, you [01:36:00] can find us on X Instagram and Facebook at book is Better Pod.

And if you wanna send feedback, ask us questions, uh, to answer on future episodes or just have fun with the host. You can join our free discord server at the link in the episode description. You don’t even have to be a member of our Patreon, believe it or not. Um, yeah, we’re so excited. This is our first recording of 2025.

Um, we’re getting back in the swing of things after all the flood stuff really threw things off for quite a bit there. But we’re excited to join you for some. We’re doing Lord of the Rings this year as well as The Chronicles of Narnia. Uh, so we’re really excited about a lot of the stuff that’s upcoming, but we would also love to know what you want us to cover.

So please let us know if you can. Uh, and until next time, uh, you shall not stop listening. 

TJ: Goodbye, everyone. Love you. It’s Lord of the Rings. 

Tim: It’s the flagship of the rings. Bye. Thank you. You only see the sickle moving. You [01:37:00]don’t even get to see Mr. Maggot or Farmer Maggot. 

TJ: Mr. Maggot. It’s Mr. Maggot. 

Tim: Farmer 

TJ: Maggot’s Farm.

Farmer Maggot. He’s one of the new, Avengers.