S01E06 — The Shining

SPOILER ALERT: This episode and transcript below contains major spoilers for The Shining.

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Featuring hosts Timothy Haynes, Donna Haynes, Rebekah Edwards, and T. Josiah Haynes.

It’s spooky season, so we decided to publish an episode on one of the most iconic cult classic horror movies of all time. The Shining was adapted to film in 1980, just 3 years after the book was published.

The family unpacks the significant changes from book to screenplay and how this impacted the final film.

TW: Mental illness and emotional abuse

Final Verdicts

If you haven’t listened to the episode yet, we recommend waiting to read our verdicts. (But you’re probably grown, so do what you want!)

Although The Shining is an iconic horror film, we all experienced far more empathy for the characters during our read-through of the original book. Our verdict is that the book is better.

(We also took issue with some of the incredibly problematic actions of director Stanley Kubrick, so while we will watch the movie again, we didn’t feel bad giving this “win” to King and the novel.)

Tim: The book is better

Donna: The book is better

Rebekah: The book is better

Josiah: The book is better

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Full Episode Transcript

Prefer reading? Check out the full episode transcript below. It’s AI-generated from our audio, and if we’re being honest… no one sat to read the entire thing for accuracy. (After all, we were there the whole time.) 😉 We’re sorry in advance for any typos or transcription errors.

[00:00:00] Josiah: This is the book is better podcast.

[00:00:19] Tim: We do use the word goofy when we describe ourselves. Yes.

[00:00:23] Josiah: So what’s that? But that was that ear bleeding?

[00:00:28] Donna: A little bit, but you know what, we’re

[00:00:29] Rebekah: giving the people what they want. It’s us singing. That’s why they listen to our audio talking podcast.

Hey, welcome to the Book is Better podcast. We are a clean podcast of a mom, dad, brother and sister reviewing book to film adaptations. We are reviewing The Shining today to celebrate spooky season And if you have some younger listeners, as which is becoming usual, we do talk about some more adult or intense themes, particularly because of the topic of today’s episode.

And I will also warn you that if you have not seen the movie, it is rated R and it is rated R for a fairly extended nudity and particularly Weird, freaky violence and language. Don’t recommend watching it with any younger viewers, but we are just super excited to have you listening with us today.

I’m Rebekah, I’m gonna give you a little fun fact about myself and then we’ll each introduce ourselves. My name is Rebekah. I am the daughter slash sister of the family here. And today’s fun fact, we’re gonna talk about. Movie theater habits. This was actually mom’s idea. I think it’s a really good one.

And so we are pretty big movie goers We go see movies a lot. So we have I actually have both a movie pass and an AMC The fancy stuff where you get all the movies for free or whatever. I really overpay if I’m being honest for both But my movie theater habits, I guess I use It’s an app called Run Pee and I get so stressed out anytime that I can’t turn it on.

And so before the movie starts, we like, I want to get there early. I want to be able to see all the previews, get our drinks, do whatever we’re going to do. And then I download the timer for the Run Pee app and you have to literally like either pay for a subscription or watch a bunch of ads.

It’s very intensive, but once you start the timer, it tells you exactly when to start the timer on the movie and you hit the button when you start the timer and then it’ll vibrate and tell you like 30 and 60 seconds ahead of time when a good pee time is. That way, when I inevitably have to go to the bathroom mid movie, I can go to the bathroom and read a recap of whatever the slightly boring scene was.

And yeah, when we get to movies late and I can’t do run pee, I get very like. Distressed, especially if it’s like the first time I’ve seen it, so that is my weird habit. That’s

[00:03:14] Josiah: theatrical paranoia. A little bit of a weird habit. That’s something. I have a similar habit, but I’m less prepared. I’m Josiah.

I’m the brother slash son of the family. And if I’m really, I’ve figured it out as, the family will recognize this trait, but I figured out more about it as I’ve grown older. I go to the restroom constantly in movies. I. We’ll go during some movies. I’ll go six times and The family doesn’t believe how often I go.

They’re like, did you get it all out? I don’t know if that’s too graphic when you went last time And I probably should download this app, but I think I figured out it’s because Whenever it’s a movie that has actually gripped me that has put me in my suspension of disbelief I’m in the story, I’m in the movie, it’s got my blood pumping, it’s got the tension and the suspense up.

So I think it only happens for movies that are actually entertaining. But that’s my habit. It’s not a habit I’ve chosen, but it is a habit that I partake in.

[00:04:29] Donna: I love it. So I’m Donna, I’m the wife mom of the crew. And,

[00:04:35] Rebekah: oh, we’re introducing a new word for it. Crew. Oh, now we’re a crew. I like

[00:04:39] Donna: it.

That is very special. And I didn’t even think, it was so spontaneous. My habit, we do our best to get in about 10, 15 minutes before trailers start. It’s not the end of the world, but I do like to see the trailers. We go to the counter, we get the tickets. I get straws and napkins. I run to the restroom, come back out, help Tim carry the popcorn in, we get to our seat, and I separate the napkins, and I get 14 napkins every time.

And we use two straws. I don’t know why,

[00:05:11] Rebekah: because we drink after each other. Do you actually count 14 napkins? I count out 14

[00:05:15] Donna: napkins. And I sit down, and then Tim has his ritual, that I’ll let him share, but and then I make sure, but then I get my phone out next. And then when he sat down, then I have the popcorn on my lap and I have it ready for us to

[00:05:31] Rebekah: eat.

I’ve seen this ritual a lot, but I like, I did not know the extent of

[00:05:36] Donna: the preparation and ritualistic

[00:05:39] Josiah: enough. Mildly OCD it is. Just being weird and random.

[00:05:44] Tim: Perhaps not mildly, but.

[00:05:47] Donna: It’s like telling your parents something you did when you were little, but you don’t tell them until you’re 30. Sorry.

[00:05:53] Josiah: I did that with my mom.

Speaking of which. It’s coming up on my 30th, get ready.

[00:05:58] Tim: Oh, dear. I am Tim. I am the husband and dad of our group. And I have a few habits. Sometimes we realize even though we’ve just had supper, we still get popcorn. It’s just something to do. I’m sure it’s a nervous habit for that,

[00:06:19] Josiah: but

[00:06:19] Tim: I’ll do the

[00:06:20] Josiah: popcorn.

[00:06:21] Rebekah: You don’t want to get hungry in the middle of the movie and not have a

[00:06:23] Tim: snacky snack. And if I don’t get something sweet for after that, then I end up going out sometime during the movie to do the same thing when I decide I really don’t need it. But then I end up wanting it anyway.

[00:06:36] Josiah: The other part

[00:06:37] Donna: of my ritual is.

[00:06:38] Rebekah: And then you go to suite.

[00:06:40] Tim: The other part of my ritual is after I’ve gotten the popcorn, I get several napkins. Probably, I don’t count them. But I get several napkins, and for a long time Donna looked at me strange. I got napkins. Why do you need them? I always go to the restroom. None of the restrooms we go to now have paper towels, and I can’t stand hand dryers.

They take too long, and you’re in a place where you want to get in and out as quickly as possible. So I keep them in my back pocket for when I go to the restroom, and then I can wash my hands, and. Dry them as I’m walking back to the theater and not waste the time.

[00:07:15] Josiah: So that’s what I figured out through all this is that we are a very nervous family.

[00:07:21] Rebekah: Apparently, we’ve got some nervous tics here.

[00:07:24] Donna: We’ve genuinely tried not to get popcorn if we’ve just had dinner. And we get, we might get a half hour into the movie and look at each other and go, Oh my gosh, we have to pop. I hate that. I wish that was not true.

[00:07:41] Rebekah: Also the 14 napkins. I feel like I need a t shirt that says

[00:07:44] Donna: 14 napkins.

There’s logic. There is logic. What is the napkins, because they’re very thin, two of the napkins go on my leg to set the popcorn box on.

[00:07:55] Josiah: Okay,

[00:07:56] Donna: sure. And then that’s six a piece and that’s enough for us to clean our hands from the butter. Oh,

[00:08:01] Josiah: okay. Because dad is a huge butterer. I thought you were about to say, got two on one leg, two on the other, two on each shoulder, two on top of the head, and then two, one each for my feet.

I

[00:08:12] Rebekah: vote the next time you go to the theater that you get 28 napkins and you do Josiah’s opinion of what he thought you were going to do and then take a picture and we can share that with our

[00:08:22] Donna: lovely audience. I think that would be cool. I’ll

[00:08:24] Rebekah: try to break it. Mom, why don’t you take it away and tell us what this whole story is about?

[00:08:29] Donna: The main character of The Shining is Jack Torrance. He is an aspiring writer and he was a school teacher as well. You find in the book that he was removed from his teaching position because of some issues that I’ll get to here in a second. But Jax hired as the winter caretaker at the Overlook Hotel.

It is an isolated resort in the Colorado Rockies. And from the beginning of fall, up into the fall, September to, yeah, September to April. The hotel is closed because they end up getting snowed in. It’s too difficult to get there and you couldn’t get guests in and out and not financially feasible, blah, blah, blah.

Jack is a recovering alcoholic and part of his alcoholism manifests. In anger issues, and you discover pretty early on that Danny, his son, who is now in the book, he’s in the story, he’s five. Danny had ended up with a broken arm over a very unintentional accident and Jack lost it. so They had a crisis, crisis of conscience here, Jack drops the alcohol, he stops drinking, and in the book, he’s about 14 months sober.

In the movie, he makes a mention of about five months. Then the other character besides Jack and his son is his wife, Wendy. Wendy is, uh, desperately in love with Jack. They do. Love each other. They do show that to us in some way in both book and movie. But she does have great concern and fear over Jack.

She’s not afraid to leave him if he can’t. Get his stuff together. Okay. Here’s where things start to go separate ways You’ve got a trip. He Danny begins having frightening visions he knows or suspects they’re connected to the hotel before they get there But the visions are like two murdered sisters who look identical he sees a woman for a little bit and I think some of the visions get weird at different times.

He sees different things. Danny has a, an imaginary friend called Tony that sometimes shares these things with him, sometimes leads them, tells him what to do, tells him what’s coming up. Tony in the movie is portrayed with Danny wiggling his index finger. like a, like a little finger puppet.

And Danny’s voice, he changes his voice to this

[00:11:15] Josiah: alien voice.

[00:11:16] Donna: Yeah it’s a garbled, a little bit garbled. Yeah. I read rum. Yeah. In the book, Tony has a separate voice that Danny hears. And so the little difference there, but I get it. I get the, totally get the movie part. Jack attempts to remain a little sane longer in the book.

Then he does the movie in the movie he, he’s pretty strange. He’s pretty weird from the get go. It’s not like he’s immediately going to fall apart but he’s a little more the craziness is a little more obvious sooner in the movie in the book, Wendy’s a strong woman.

She’s incredibly beautiful, blonde. She does have some of her own family baggage she deals with. She has fears and concerns for her family, but still she’s a pretty solid person in the movie. Wendy’s timid from the outset and Shelley Duvall is a hundred and eighty three opposite from her. I don’t think that’s, I don’t, is that enough degrees?

Dear Lord, it’s, I struggle with that part. So once they’re alone, they all begin seeing or hearing things. Maybe they’ll walk past something and out of the corner of their eye it’ll look different and this kind of happens at different times for them, but they all realize something’s going on. Danny had met the cook in the hotel before the staff left.

He was introduced to Mr. Halloran who helped him understand that these voices, this toning he hears and the things that he knows and he has these telepathic abilities. And they’re called Mr. Halloran says his mother always called them The Shining. And he says he has a little bit of it too. And he’s worried for Danny and so before he leaves for his winter retreat.

He says, just get with, let me know, call out and you’re so strong, basically, I’m, I’ll probably hear you in Florida. Danny’s visions start getting heavier and quicker, faster and a little more frequent. Jack, his, he’s into this constant struggle with wanting to drink again, but he said he wouldn’t, but he wants to.

And the stress of the hotel gets him by throwing this into overdrive. He walks into the ballroom and encounters the encounters the barkeep who produces all this alcohol in front of him. And none of this is real, right? This is all hallucination. Danny gets lured into a room by some unseen…

Horses in the book, he describes Danny going in the room and what he sees. In the movie, this happens by, you see him walk in the room, then when he goes to, then you see him go to his mother. His shirt’s torn and he’s got marks on him and bruises on him. Jack is completely convinced it was Danny. Danny says it wasn’t.

And then Jack ends up going to check that room and this is the scene where we talked about before where there’s some nudity involved. And he sees this woman and she’s she ended up, they, we find out that she was drowned in the bathtub years and years ago and it’s her ghost or whatever.

They never really put a term for, give you a term for it. The movie

[00:15:03] Rebekah: just shows a very gross looking rotting corpse. Yes.

[00:15:07] Donna: Yes. We get at this point, Danny realizes he needs to call out for Halloran and he tries that he hollers for him. And as. The Shining would have it. Mr. Halloran hears it in Florida, makes a mad dash to get up to Colorado in the best way he can.

While he’s on his trip, Wendy has become fully aware that Jack is losing it. He’s not doing the things he was supposed to be doing while they were there. He’s not working on the manuscript he started. Extremely creepy scene, which I love that scene. He’s not doing research. He’s just out of it.

Jack goes fully over the edge because Wendy’s trying to talk to him. He tries to kill Wendy and Danny, chases them up, chases her up to their room. Great scene on the stairs going out of the hotel, lobby up to the stair, up to the floors. And Wendy and Danny are able to get away. In the book, Halloran makes it there by traveling the last several hours in a snowmobile.

Danny realizes that Jack has not adjusted the boiler temperature, and it’s an old rickety thing that you have to mess with every day. He knows it’s going to explode and it’ll blow up the hotel. Jack is trapped inside and is killed when the explosion happens. and Wendy, Danny, and Halloran escape on the snowmobile and are able to get away.

They survive. In the movie Wendy and Danny run, get out of their room, run out to the maze, and Jack trails behind them far enough that they can get ahead and possibly, probably because of his… It is madness at this point. He can’t get to them and he ends up freezing to death. And then at the end of the movie you see this.

Photograph in the hotel hallway of this massive group of people in the ballroom dressed in formal clothing and Jack’s picture standing at the front of the crowd of party revelers with the date of July 4th, 1921. So much.

[00:17:24] Rebekah: So much. So I was, yeah, let’s talk differences in this, but let me just say, okay, I have a confession to make.

So when we started talking about doing this podcast, I was like, I’m going to buy. The books and the movies, like I’m going to purchase physical copies of all stuff, whatever. The Shining was the first book I bought for The Book is Better. And so when I looked at the book, I was like, oh yeah, like it’s I remember like I had this vague recollection of watching it years and years ago and I was like, yeah, it’s just like this weird, like creepy Alfred Hitchcock esque movie.

Like it’s more like. Thriller than anything, like no big deal, there’s snow. I don’t know. And I just had this like vague memory. So I like, I was reading it and I’m like, okay, I don’t remember this plot at all and whatever. And so I start watching the movie actually part way through my read.

I had not finished. I had a memory of watching Fargo. It wasn’t this movie. And so I was like, I’m like reading, I’m reading this and watching. And I’m like, Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry. If you feel like I was

[00:18:38] Josiah: like, Oh my God, Nebraska situation, Fargo is in North Dakota, right?

[00:18:44] Donna: Yes, I do stories about how you navigate on trips.

[00:18:48] Rebekah: I guess we don’t have to get into all this. I did think Omaha was a state, but in my defense, it’s because Omaha State Mutual has very memorable commercials. And I just thought, why would you say Omaha State? If Omaha wasn’t a state anyway, okay, but I was, I would say, let’s, do you mind if we start with the change at the very end about Mr.

Halloran? Yeah, sure. That’s fine. I, so I watched, like I said, I watched half the movie and then I finished the last hundred pages or so of the book and I’m like, okay, so like The Shining, the hotel blows up. Mr. Halloran though, is able to rescue them. He gets. His face gets busted by the croquet mallet, whatever.

But he like, is able to take Wendy and Danny. Roke mallet. A roke mallet. I’m so sorry.

[00:19:33] Josiah: It’s a predecessor of croquet.

[00:19:36] Rebekah: I see. That’s right. That’s right. I vaguely remember that as like a thing. So I, then I go back and I’m like, okay, I’ve got like the last hour and whatever of the movie. So Halloran’s we’re going to get up there, all this stuff.

And then. He’s killed as soon as Jack sees him, he just

[00:19:54] Josiah: gets killed, per se,

[00:19:55] Tim: and then, useless in the movie, for him

[00:19:57] Rebekah: to be there, no, it’s a point, the only thing that happened was that there was a snow cat that they could actually take after Jack had, disabled the other one, but I was like, it’s so stupid, he just kills him immediately, and I’m thinking, oh, he’ll get up, and then, no, there’s a shot, and he’s not breathing,

[00:20:15] Donna: Josiah, as an author, what could be the possible?

Thought, because not only are you an author, but you’ve also directed theatrical theater plays and musicals. What could have been the thought in Kubrick’s head to spend the time with Scatman Crothers, who was well loved, people love, he’s a great, he’s a great actor. What would be the point of using him, go through all the filming of him getting up there for Jack to just bash him to death?

[00:20:50] Josiah: I Don’t really like it, but I think he does. This is a great example of, I wish I had watched the movie before reading the book. Cause these expectations were in my head, but as a movie, I think that it works. I think it’s an original idea. To film a person going to save Wendy and Danny and setting up that expectation to subvert it with him dying, but then satisfyingly he did provide the only way that Wendy and Danny could get off of the mountain with the second snowcat.

So I think that works from a story standpoint. I think that there’s an issue if you want to talk about. The token black character always dying in movies that Stephen King did not do. He, I don’t know how purposefully, but he did subvert that some would say harmful trope and then Stanley Kubrick added it back in.

So that, that’s one consideration. But I think if I would have watched the movie before the book, I would have minded it less. Unless it would have been like, oh my goodness, no, he didn’t. I think it was meant to, Kubrick was all about disorienting the audience. And honestly, Stephen King, he’s not perfect.

I think it was a weird choice to how do I say? To telegraph everything that Dick Halloran did getting up to the Overlook Hotel in the book. Because I loved that. I liked how it was like a ticking time bomb and he was trying to get up there and I think the successful thing about it. Was that you saw how long it took for him to do every step and so that built suspense but on the other hand ye he ends up saving them and That’s exactly what the audience expect expected what happened Stephen King was like look at this guy Who’s coming to save Wendy and Danny and then he comes and saves Wendy and Danny.

So it’s less of a shock It’s less of a surprise

[00:23:03] Rebekah: and I remembered reading that section. I thought it was very interesting that the Halloran thing, the first thing that happens, he like, goes off the side of the road. He literally almost drives off a cliff because he doesn’t know how to drive in snow.

It’s this horrible storm, whatever. And then a tow truck driver or something like that, or a snowplow driver, pulls him off of the cliff. The snowplow driver also shines and tells him. Yeah, he shines as well. And so he tells him a little bit about, his friend and go get the snow cat thing, whatever.

But it was weird because they jump, they’re jumping back between Wendy and Danny or Wendy trying to escape from Jack and all this stuff. And then they go back to Halloran. And when they go back to Halloran the next time, it’s like Halloran did indeed make it to. The Overlook Hotel and then they explain the next several hours of his journey and I’m like why would you like, it was like he purposefully took that part of the surprise out of it because I think.

What I was wondering, because like I said, I read, I liked that I finished the book before finishing the end of the movie and what I kept wondering was going to happen was like, is he going to arrive at the hotel? It’s a horror, like we know it’s not like a happy movie and so is he going to arrive at the hotel just in time to see them dead?

That’s what I thought was going to happen. So

[00:24:18] Josiah: one of

[00:24:19] Tim: the things one of the things that I thought about with the ending of the movie and the ending of the book had to do with,

The theme the theme of possession

[00:24:32] Josiah: there actually

[00:24:33] Tim: In the book, the hotel is possessed.

There it is an entity in and of itself, and it is trying to and it’s possessing attract people and it is possessing Yes. And all of that. So the way that the book ends. With the boiler that, that Jack has supposed to have been watching out for through the whole winter time and keeping a close eye on it.

He’s forgotten today because he’s obsessed with getting rid of his son and wife who are keeping him from being Elevated at the hotel to a position of honor but I really appreciate the fact that the hotel blows up that the boiler blows up and the hotel goes up in smoke. That was a much more satisfying ending than the ending in the movie where you think he, he’s probably going to freeze to death.

You don’t see that happen. You don’t see Wendy and Danny after they’ve. I don’t think I remember that we watch, I watched the movie before I listened

[00:25:43] Josiah: to the book.

[00:25:43] Rebekah: It ends on that. It’s just, they’re driving

[00:25:45] Josiah: away and you get the picture, the photo, you get a

[00:25:49] Rebekah: photograph of him with the, yeah.

[00:25:51] Tim: You get the photograph that he’s been part of the hotel. It, in the movie, it seems like Kubrick liked some of the things of the book and wanted to use them, like the fact that the hotel possesses people and there are bad things have happened there and this thing is continually going on. It seems like this party.

He likes some of the elements, but he doesn’t use enough of them in the movie to explain it at all. And my understanding is there’s some parts of the movie that were filmed that weren’t used in the theatrical release because they were more confusing. They confused it even more. But I like the way that the book ended as opposed to the way that the

[00:26:38] Josiah: movie ended.

I definitely want you to have your opinion and this is not to change your mind or anything, but just to put my two cents in, I didn’t love the boiler exploding because at the beginning of the book they go down and the work guy that’s like the most foul mouthed character in the book tells Jack all about the boiler and maybe it’s Stuart Allman who tells him about the boiler.

But one of them is talking about the boiler. And as I’m reading it, I’m like, Oh, okay, so that’s how the, that’s what’s going to happen at the end of the book. Otherwise, we wouldn’t be talking about this boiler that and in my head, I was thinking, why would you ever buy something that could explode your hotel?

[00:27:25] Donna: Yeah. And

[00:27:26] Tim: in the movie, you’re talking about foreshadowing, though, and that was It’s probably more common than it is right now foreshadowing in books and movies. We want to give you the little tidbits of how you could solve this. When you get to the end, you’ll look back and say, Oh yeah, that was it.

That was the thing. But

[00:27:45] Josiah: I

[00:27:46] Donna: just thought too, with the movie, knowing the boiler was so important. They end the movie with Wendy and Danny and Halloran gone, and Jack frozen in the maze, but the hotel doesn’t blow up. So it’s almost there’s a little

[00:28:03] Rebekah: undone. Wasn’t there a sequel? Didn’t they do a sequel movie?

I wonder if that’s why Kubrick made that

[00:28:09] Josiah: decision. The sequel movie Dr. Sleep came out three, four years ago. I watched it. Is it okay that

[00:28:15] Donna: we don’t cover that one?

[00:28:17] Rebekah: Yeah, I don’t know what’s in it. I didn’t mention spoilers. I’m just thinking

[00:28:19] Josiah: for that. I think Stephen King wrote in like 2013 a sequel to his book, the Shining and then the movie tried to reconcile the differences so that it was a sequel to both the book and the movie. So it doesn’t,

[00:28:34] Rebekah: I it tried, like I knew there was a sequel, but I didn’t know if it

[00:28:37] Josiah: hotel, no. Stanley Cooper had the, with that.

[00:28:40] Donna: I’M going to bring out my most frustrating difference and it’s Wendy.

Yeah. Oh my gosh. And there is, I did come across a possible reason and I’ll share that, but in the movie or in the novel, Wendy is constantly going back and forth between, I don’t want to be with a man who could be volatile like this. I don’t want to do that. And the fact that she does want to keep them together and that she does genuinely love Jack.

So she’s balancing that constantly, right? She’s trying to be concerned about him, but she also gets angry with him and she’s described as beautiful. She’s headstrong. She’s resilient.

[00:29:27] Josiah: Intelligent,

[00:29:28] Donna: educated, she’s intelligent and she’s blonde. And they make reference to her being Incredibly beautiful.

In the movie, she’s less self reliant. She has no confidence. She wears the ugliest clothes I have ever seen in my life. He gives her a southern accent, which with the bugly clothes really makes me mad. She’s meek. She’s nervous. And her role in the movie, it’s less than what’s in the book. But, and I’m sorry, Shelley Duvall, I think she’s done some good things.

I don’t think she’s a bad person, but she’s homely and ugly. I’m sorry, Shelley Duvall. Oh, no. Please don’t be angry with me if you ever hear this, but putting you in that movie with straight hair, they could have left her hair dark and made it pretty. I

[00:30:21] Rebekah: don’t

[00:30:21] Josiah: think Stanley Kubrick hated her and wanted to torture her.

[00:30:27] Donna: This was the, I did not write this. This came from a review I was reading with differences and stuff in the movie. So Kubrick seemed to think a woman would have to be stupid to stay with a formerly drunken abuser while King Seemed to believe that there was more nuance to it. Yeah,

[00:30:44] Josiah: I was reading Articles and interviews and I think Kubrick might have gone on the record or maybe it was King talking about why Kubrick changed Wendy because Wendy’s change is one of Stephen King’s most hated changes, the author of the book.

And I think whereas in the book, there’s so much nuance and we do get her internal monologue a lot. And so maybe that’s where the nuance can arise from. But whether Kubrick thought that a woman Would, an intelligent woman would not stay with such a volatile person, or possibly, maybe I’ll give him credit, and maybe he thought that he couldn’t give her the same nuance as the internal monologue in the book gives her.

Kubrick made her a lot less independent and ultra intelligent. Yeah,

[00:31:37] Rebekah: there was very little conflict in her acting and I don’t, okay, I will give you this. Duvall, I would say, is a fantastic actor but was not, she was given a role that like felt very flat and one sided for the movie and obviously she did not physically look like the character, but I had also read one of our little pieces of trivia that Kubrick has only had one film nominated at the Razzie Award for worst director and worst actress in the first year that award was given and Duvall was nominated as worst actress.

Now they did retract that in 2022, last year. But I don’t think it was necessarily, why did they retract it?

[00:32:24] Josiah: They, the reason they gave was because the news of Kubrick’s treatment of her had come out in re in years, but that was, probably years and years. You

[00:32:34] Rebekah: weren’t being dramatic. He did mistreat her.

[00:32:37] Josiah: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Jack Nicholson and Shelly Duvall. Yes. And I think a few other people are like, Stanley Kubrick was awful to work with. He’ll make you do a hundred takes. And sometimes it seemed as though he was making them do 200 takes of the same shot over and over again so that the actor was genuinely distressed and it would come out in the character on screen.

[00:33:00] Donna: She was so traumatized by his direction and that scene on the stairs. He had her to the point where they had to medicate her. She said, she’s, this is all stuff she and Nicholson have talked about later. Scatman Crothers said after the movie with Kubrick, he was in a movie that Clint Eastwood, not

[00:33:20] Josiah: Clint Eastwood.

Yeah, it was Clint Eastwood. Yeah.

[00:33:23] Donna: Clint Eastwood directed and they, he did his, the first day of filming. They did his first scene and Eastwood’s known for one take. He wants one take. He wrapped it, said, that’s a, that’s great. Carothers went to him and fell on him and started crying and said, I can’t believe I’m so thankful.

Thank you. Thank you. And they were out about it, but that’s why part of that is. Nicholson and Duvall both said, however, it was, even though it was terrible as they describe it, it was one of the, it was a positive experience in the fact of what they learned. They wouldn’t go back and redo it, but they can see that they gained from it.

Yeah.

[00:34:08] Josiah: To finish the Razzie story. The reason it was March, I don’t know why I remember this date, March 22nd, I think was the day that they were sended the Razzie nomination. March 31, 2022. March of 2022, that’s what it is. Yeah. I believe that was the same day or the day after they rescinded Bruce Willis nomination because they came out with a one time category of worst Bruce Willis performance of the year, because he had.

Hello, everyone. I’m Matt. video about Matt. Matt Bruce Willis. was a actor. He was a actor. a diagnosed with aphasia or something, I don’t know what it is, but some sort of cognitive disorder, I think. And I think the Razzies actually rescinded that whole category, because they’re like, now we understand it’s a more sensitive topic, and there’s medical stuff.

And in the same vein, They just rescinded Shelley Duvall’s as well. What do you think about this? I think I have an opinion on this, but I want to hear your thoughts before I say it. Sure. The fact that there were no topiaries in the movie, but it seemed to have been replaced with the hedge maze.

[00:35:24] Tim: And, but then the hedge mage maze doesn’t have as much to do with the

[00:35:29] Josiah: plot.

It, that’s true. Yeah, it’s there and, but it’s not possessed, go

[00:35:35] Tim: in it, but it doesn’t help with the psychosis because in the book, the, the hedge animals are part of the hallucinations or are they hallucinations? You, that’s

[00:35:48] Josiah: a big

[00:35:48] Rebekah: question. Clarify for those who have either never seen or read it or have not read the book, but have seen the movie in the book.

There are huge topiaries like animals made out of hedges and they come alive at the beginning of the hallucinations. It’s more like Jack hears them behind him and he’ll turn around and they’re in different positions and closer to him. And by the end of the movie, they’re literally attacking Halloran like they’re physically, you can see them attacking you as if they’re real animals.

And in the book. When the, when the boiler blows up and the hotel explodes, they actually catch fire and they end up back in their original positions and Halloran realizes they’re dead there. I think it’s Halloran, but it might’ve been Danny. They’re dead and realizes they go to back to their initial positions cause they’re dead.

But anyway. I

[00:36:35] Josiah: think that the topiary animals would have looked stupid. And I think that the hedge ma Visually. Visually, on a movie screen. And I think that the hedge maze, as soon as it’s mentioned, every audience member is like, Oh, someone’s gonna get trapped in there. So I think it’s a pretty good use of trans transferring a book story to a visual medium.

But yeah, I think daddy that you hit the nail on the head at the hedge maze Doesn’t have hotel characters in it, right? And so I think it feels separate and it’s the climax of the film. It’s Iconic for Jack to be chasing Danny there. Yeah, I

[00:37:21] Tim: think he Kubrick could have used the hedge maize because it was easier to film than hedge animals that might legitimately look silly Because of the they would be completely CGI But he could have used It could have used some of the characters that Jack was seeing, the party goers disappearing into the maze, or, just a glimpse of them as they went in to, to make a connection, but

[00:37:47] Josiah: there’s no connection.

Have someone that died in the maze. Yeah. That’s

[00:37:51] Donna: good.

[00:37:52] Rebekah: Yeah, I think that could have added a little depth to it.

[00:37:54] Donna: What do you all, I know we’re doing kind of separate differences, but But is there just a short few sentences you would say about. What each of you think about the difference in Tony, because Tony in the book, creepy, it was creepy, his whole thing.

And I didn’t mind the movie part with Danny and the little finger and wiggling his finger and speaking. I get that. But in the book, both of the, both of them were creepy. But what do you think about the difference there? Can you think of another way? Tony could have been used in the movie differently, or do you think it was

[00:38:37] Rebekah: better?

It was the thing, it was the thing about the movie that drove me the most insane. I was so mad. Yeah I don’t like Wendy’s portrayal. I guess they’re probably, one of them is a close second to the other, but I, in the book. I loved Danny. He was such a sweet boy that he didn’t really understand what was going on and I, I’ll interrupt myself here to just describe this because someone asked me about it yesterday.

What is The Shining the thing that they call the shine or The Shining? And it’s a combination of telepa telepathic abilities. Precognition and some clairvoyance in general. So like they know stuff that’s going on at the same time, they know stuff that might happen and then they can communicate or hear other people’s thoughts like other people that shine, you can like, they can communicate clearly and have conversations.

People that don’t shine. Danny heard his parents thoughts when in the book, before the whole hotel, he’d heard her thinking the word divorce, but they’d been very conscious not to say the word divorce in front of Danny. And like, All of this stuff like builds this character that’s this sweet kid who has this ability that he knows is different and there’s obviously some weirdness to it and there’s some creepiness to it or whatever, but Tony in the movie, it’s just like you make the kid this little like demon possessed child like it wasn’t, it was just evil. It felt very evil, whereas in the book it did not. It felt like Tony genuinely wanted Danny to be okay and had his best interest at heart. And I hated the way that they used the little voice like this and the finger wagging and like all of that stuff. I just wish that it had been, whether it was like a voice off screen or like a different tenor to Danny’s voice, I just, I did not

[00:40:22] Josiah: like that.

I think that the finger wagging and the funny voice, ooh, did what Kubrick was going for, which I can appreciate, especially if I don’t think about the book’s version of Tony. But here’s something that made me feel sad. And I don’t know if you guys went through the same thing, but I do not remember in the book and I’m a horrible reader.

I’ll admit that. I’m embarrassed, but I do not remember in the book where it is revealed, but then it’s whenever I’m like looking back at all of these synopses and articles about The Shining, it’s like, Oh yeah, this is just something we figured out in the book. I don’t remember in the book where they, where you figure out that it’s.

Danny in the future and that Tony is short for Anthony, which is Danny’s middle name.

[00:41:09] Rebekah: They do mention that it’s in the very end like of the or it might be in the epilogue I’m trying to remember they basically tell you don’t know this until the end of the book his middle name Danny’s middle name is Anthony and so Tony is short for Anthony.

And so he was always intended by King to be, Tony was like his older self talking to younger Danny. And so in the 1990s miniseries that King, because King did not like Kubrick’s, version of the film at all. They used Stephen King’s original screenplay that he’d written. To convert this for that miniseries.

And they make, there’s I think there’s an ending scene where you see Tony or Danny in high school and you realize like that the voice that was Tony was actually just Danny older. And so they do tie that back in the miniseries. Yeah, I missed that. I wanted to mention it because I thought it was really fascinating.

It’s very subtle. It was like a sentence like it didn’t, they didn’t make it, he didn’t make a big deal about

[00:42:08] Josiah: it. A big thing to be subtle, but. I guess that’s okay. Okay.

[00:42:12] Tim: Here’s my opinion about the Tony thing, and it ties into. To the whole change of the movie. I felt like Kubrick just made Danny creepy, weird with that.

With the Tony thing. He seemed to, to make a movie about a man. who gradually goes crazy because of the isolation. Yeah. The book is really a book about a man who goes crazy, but because the hotel is possessed and possessing him, and bit by bit, just continues to strengthen the things about him that he feels terrible about.

He’s never been successful, but he doesn’t blame himself for it. And the hotel picks up on that. And so blames everybody else for it. It was, the student that he beat up, it was his fault that happened. The people that caused him to lose his job, it was all their fault, nothing he did.

And it was, danny and Wendy wanted him to leave the hotel and this was his best opportunity and all those things. I feel like they were two very different themes. To the book and the

[00:43:33] Josiah: movie

[00:43:34] Rebekah: that leads me into one of the other things that I wanted to talk about because I agree I like a lot of that perspective.

I did not understand the thought process of why Jack was portrayed the way he was in the film, I guess To be fair the film basically gives you a creepy horror movie Like there’s a reason that this episode is coming out in October it’s that’s the point

[00:43:59] Josiah: Kubrick

[00:44:00] Tim: wanted Jack Nicholson and the reason he wanted Jack Nicholson to play it for him is because he was just crazy enough.

And so from the very beginning you get the idea that Jack, the character is. It’s a little off from the very beginning in the movie, but not

[00:44:22] Josiah: in the book. I think that’s one of the things Stephen King’s Stephen King fought against at the time, even before the movie came out and he realized he’d hate it, is that if you cast Jack Nicholson, everyone will know that he goes insane by the end of the movie, because he’s insane at the beginning of the movie.

I think that Stephen King… Jack was fighting for an actor like Christopher Reeve or Jean Voight to play Jack because they were more of an everyman.

[00:44:54] Rebekah: So in the book, just again, for those who haven’t read it Jack has a very… Like complex struggle with alcoholism during the time so there’s all this stuff that goes on now in the film Wendy Talks about he was drinking and he accidentally dislocated Danny’s shoulder I think in the book.

He actually broke his wrist Location one of those arm. Yeah, and so but They don’t get into that in the movie and I, again, I understand part of the reason why, but Jack was not an evil character. I remember having this sense through the whole book read. Do I like this man? I think that I’m sympathizing with him at the very least, much less, I don’t hate him.

He’s not a bad guy. And he wrote him that way. Like he becomes unhinged and succumbs to the hotel essentially, but he loved his family and his son. And he was upset with himself for those things that, that he, that the darker parts of himself. And he stayed on the wagon. Yes, he did.

Even when he was hallucinating the alcohol that wasn’t there, but then it was there. He

[00:45:59] Josiah: did. I think I didn’t mind Wendy very much, but I really hated. Jack Torrance in the movie compared to the book. Another reason, I wish I had watched the movie first, cause I, I love Stanley Kubrick. I love how weird and unsettling his visual language is.

And but I think Shining is Stephen King’s best book. The first half of the book has me my gut is just churning because I’m thinking, Oh, I love all three of these characters and Dick Halloran, but especially the three family members is what I’m talking about here. That all of them have such complicated, nuanced human emotions about a complicated situation.

And I get the impression that a lot of people, maybe Kubrick included, would say, Oh, Jack is evil. Wendy should leave him. He’s a danger to Danny. And it’s I’m not saying that’s… That’s a bad thing that could have made sense as a choice, but for multiple believable reasons, Wendy stayed with Jack and Jack convinced her to do that by working on himself And that heartbreaking, those heartbreaking moments whenever Wendy, I feel like it’s more than once in the book where Wendy sees Danny interact with his father and she thinks he, he loves his father more than he loves me or something along those lines like he’s his father’s boy.

And so I loved Jack Torrance as a character in the book and he’s nothing, he has no arc. He’s just a weirdo from the beginning in the movie.

[00:47:44] Rebekah: They also, just a small change that feels significant, was that they for no reason I assume it’s for no reason, is the book, or in the book, the number of the room he wasn’t supposed to enter was 217, and in the movie it was 237.

Is there a point to that? It just seemed unnecessary. Yeah,

[00:48:03] Josiah: the real life reason is that the hotel… Had a two 17, but they didn’t have a 2, 3, 7 and they thought that guests would be less likely to stay in two 17 if it were the horror room in the movie. Kubrick changes it to 2 3 7. Ironically, if I’m remembering correctly, the hotel receives more requests for 2, 3, 7.

I’m in the other room.

[00:48:28] Tim: I’d like to pop through just a few differences and try to do them fairly quickly. Lightning round. How are his connection to Danny in the movie isn’t nearly as familiar. They take a lot more time to work through that. And I really

[00:48:43] Josiah: feel about it. I really

[00:48:45] Tim: enjoyed.

What

[00:48:46] Josiah: the book had done with it. I thought it was a good change that instead of in the book where he just takes Danny into his car that he is about to drive away from the hotel and talks to him, which I think is incredibly creepy and Wendy like worries about it for a second, but doesn’t do anything about it.

Yeah, I guess a Wendy worries about it a little bit, but in the movie he’s can I get the boy some ice cream? And then I think that makes a lot more sense for a time for Dick to talk to him about The Shining. But yes, the connection is definitely not as strong in the movie.

[00:49:17] Tim: I wish they’d done made the connection a little bit stronger.

The other thing is one thing that just jumped out at me right at the beginning was the fact that the manager in the movie, He likes Jack. He’s happy. He’s grateful that he’s here and all of that. And in the book he only is interviewing him and giving him this job because someone higher up in the ownership of the hotel made

[00:49:45] Josiah: them do it.

And it was his old drinking buddy, Al Shockley. Yeah. And there’s,

[00:49:50] Tim: There’s like a board that goes along with that. It connects Jack to Shockton, who was a fellow drinking buddy, but is now part owner, major owner in the hotel. And so it ties a lot of plot parts together. But in the movie, you’ve just got Allman, who is happy that he’s here.

And that all goes away. Don’t kill your family. Yeah, then you just have the maintenance guy who’s telling about the boiler and

[00:50:20] Josiah: getting it done, I want to talk about, what are some of the changes we liked in the movie? I think there was… I think King admitted it.

Kubrick made some really iconic visuals for the film that were not based on book events. Here’s Jackie. Here’s Johnny. And that was improv, that wasn’t even Kubrick. Kubrick wanted to cut that because he was from England and he didn’t know the reference. Did you know that? Isn’t that funny? I’d heard that.

That’s weird. But the hundred pages, I think all work and no play make Jack a dull boy. I think that’s horrifying. That’s a good payoff to him typing. That

[00:50:58] Tim: is probably the one thing in the movie that stands out to me is that is so creepy when Wendy goes to look at this stack of his book that he’s been working on the script and it all looks like a script.

But it is just continual, all Jack, all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. That’s the only thing written and it’s typed over and over. And that just sends this chill through you. And I like that

[00:51:23] Josiah: there’s misspellings. I like that there’s little letters. Like he actually typed this. Bricks

[00:51:31] Donna: and Bricks secretary spent hours and hours over weeks. Typing that out. Oh my gosh. Oh.

[00:51:41] Rebekah: Yeah, because you, like today, you could just easily reproduce that from a computer, but yeah, you could copy paste it. Wow, you would have literally had to use a typewriter for all that. Yeah. For I was just going to go through a couple more lightning round items so in the movie, you don’t learn anything about the fact that Jack has a pretty traumatic childhood and an abusive father again, just into his back.

There’s less depth there in the movie. The, weapon choices of Jack’s were different. So in the movie he uses an ax. It’s very iconic. There’s that meme from the here’s Johnny moment. And he, breaks through the doors in the book. He’s using a Roke mallet. I’ll also say weapon differences. Wendy, she also grabs a knife in the I guess it’s not so much a weapon difference.

She grabs a knife in the kitchen, but she actually stabs Jack in the back and he walks around with a knife poking out of his back in the book for a very long period of time that they don’t show in the movie at all. A couple of other little changes, Danny grows over time to become more in command of his shining.

Yes. And in the movie, he like, when he shines to Halloran to tell him what’s going on all the way in Florida, he looks like he’s essentially having a seizure, or it was like a very intense kind of thing. And it doesn’t look until the very end that he connects with that.

[00:53:03] Josiah: About things I liked about the movie that weren’t necessarily in the book, I like if you’re translating it to a visual medium, I appreciate how…

Stanley Kubrick translated the isolation in the opening sequence of them driving up the hill with this ominous music that the first time I heard it, I was like, is that really the music they’re choosing? But honestly. It’s very uniquely ominous in a way that I’m always listening for music that sounds different than stuff I’ve heard.

And so I don’t really think that’s a style that has been replicated that and Blade Runner, Blade Runner more but I like that unique music to set the tone. But I also like. The some of the shots, the, one of my favorite shots in the movie of a lot of, I don’t want to say of all time, but I really love.

How the camera follows Jack slamming the axe into the door that makes it feel like the camera is almost slamming the axe into the door and maybe it makes you well, first of all, it makes you feel the impact more, but. Is it like the camera, are the spirits in the hotel possessing Jack to swing the axe?

There’s things that makes you think and feel that I really appreciate. And my final one that I just thought of was. Danny riding his little tricycle through the hallways. Big wheel. I think that’s so big. Wheels. That’s what you should call exactly. . You guys both had one. Aw, we’re so cute.

I don’t know if we ever stayed in a hotel and drove through the hallways, but no, you wouldn’t have done that. . . I love him driving through the hallways and making you feel like it’s a labyrinth. Which, now that I say that, it makes the hedge maze feel more irrelevant. Because you’re at a labyrinthine hotel.

But he’s going through it, it makes you feel lonely, it makes you feel lost, it makes you feel disoriented. And it’s unsettling that you’re following him for so long with very little happening. I just think there’s some really iconic visual moments that Kubrick achieved. I was

[00:55:13] Donna: so anxious every time he would head to a corner.

So I loved that because you knew, and most of the time, obviously, except the few times where he would turn and the creepy sisters would be there. It was a great way to make you feel unsettled.

[00:55:34] Rebekah: Oh my gosh, speaking of that, we didn’t mention just as a kind of last change kind of thing. There’s a few other little ones, but the sisters, the whole like twins thing that is movie only that is not a thing like Grady who was the manager who killed his kids.

Yeah. Yeah. So that part is true, but they aren’t twins in the book and they don’t appear. To Danny like that at all in the book. So that’s a movie, which I would say to Joe size question, I would say one of my favorite changes, I did think that the twins thing and like their constant reappearance was very creepy and I thought it went.

Very well. Like I think it was effective.

[00:56:13] Josiah: Yeah, I didn’t think like the first couple of times I saw him, I didn’t think, oh, that’s the last person’s daughters. But then you see the flash of them dead in the hallway and you’re like, oh, that I completely understand. So it took me a second and then it made me feel smart.

One

[00:56:27] Tim: of the, one of the things that, that runs throughout the book, but makes makes a surprise appearance, Way into the movie is red rum. Now, at this point, most people who have lived in the United States know that red rum is murder spelled backwards. But that was apparently not the thing because all the red rum starts, appears on page 23.

It continues throughout the book, but you don’t realize that it’s murder until Danny sees it in a mirror He sees it backwards. In the movie, Danny writes it, which, there again, makes him seem like he’s simply possessed and his mom sees it in the mirror, and realizes what that is. But it’s a… It’s one of those things that was probably very surprising for the readers the first time.

But of course, because the movie is so iconic, and that’s one of the iconic things about the movie it’s not something you can read the book now and not realize. Because as soon as they said, Redrum, I thought, oh, I know what that is. That’s murder spelled backwards. Because culturally, that’s become…

Such a part of our culture. I found it interesting that the Motion Picture Association of America did not want to run the trailer, to allow the trailer, because it included this scene where something splashes on the wall, big splash on the wall. And Kubrick got them to do it because they initially thought that it looked like blood, and he said actually, it’s just rusty water.

So they allowed him to use it in the trailer. I think it’s supposed to be representative of blood, but I think he pulled a fast one. That’s

[00:58:23] Donna: so

[00:58:23] Rebekah: interesting. I also loved that Kubrick, despite all of the crazy things that he did to adult people he tried to protect the child actor, Danny Lloyd, who played the character of Danny.

Also, how interesting is it that Jack and Danny were both played by actors with the first names of Jack and Danny? I think that’s very fascinating.

[00:58:43] Donna: He only made

[00:58:44] Josiah: one more movie,

[00:58:45] Tim: right?

[00:58:46] Rebekah: Danny. So he was not interested. He was not interested in being an actor. After this period, although he was in Dr.

Sleep, like I think he’s listed as like a spectator. So I think that he may be like off to the side somewhere. I’ve never seen Dr. Sleep, so I’m not sure. But Kubrick, despite whatever failings he also had, he protected the boy. And so the child, Danny Lloyd thought that he was filming a drama.

He did not realize that he was in a horror movie. And they aimed to protect him from a lot of that, which I think is interesting. And I wouldn’t have known that watching the movie. And so they did a good job of still help, like directing him well,

[00:59:23] Donna: another thing about actors in the movie, speaking of him not going on in that career.

The two women that were in the two, in room 2 37, the old and the young, this was the only film they were ever in. They were never in another movie. That’s

[00:59:40] Rebekah: bonkers. That’s really wild. I know. I’m like, pick this one, . This is your one pick. Yeah. So like this one woman, Leah Belda apparently was just like nude for several straight minutes and started making out with Jack Nicholson.

Yeah. And then that was it. She was like, you know what? I’m done. That’s funny. That’s fascinating. I also thought this was really interesting when Jack breaks down the bathroom door, in that very iconic scene, the props department had built a door that he could break easily, but because he’d worked as a fire marshal voluntarily before he tore the prop door open too easily.

So they had to literally build a stronger door to make it look more realistic. Yes. Yep. Okay, so I want to know everyone’s final verdict. Do we think that the book was really better?

[01:00:30] Josiah: My final verdict is That the book is better. I love the movie’s iconic and unique and evocative visual language. I like the Stanley Kubrickism of it.

I like how weird and unsettling it is and how I already said how unique it is, but I really don’t care about the character of Jack. I barely care about the characters of Wendy, Danny, and Dick Hallorann. Whereas, in the book, It is one of the most gripping character tales I have ever read, especially the first two thirds of the book.

I didn’t care as much about the horror of the book. I almost wished it was a straight drama, and I would have absolutely loved it. But, I don’t think it’s Kubrick’s best film. It’s probably in his top three or four, but I do think it’s Stephen King’s best book. And the It is, or It is really great.

The book it, but the

God bless.

I’ve already listened to the audiobook and watched the movie, so I’m basically already prepared for that. That’ll give us enough time.

The book is, I don’t know if you know the book is his longest book, Stephen King’s longest book. It’s enormous. But the Shining book gets into these people’s internal monologues and makes me care about them. I’m trying to think of a book that makes me care more about its core cast. And it’s a struggle.

I really like the Shining book. And honestly, my biggest problem with it is that Jack dies. And although he does sacrifice himself to give Danny extra time to escape from the rest of the spirits which is a redemption in its own right, I don’t really I think that him killing himself to sacrifice himself for his son, I think, is inevitably a cynical look at how alcoholism can affect a father son relationship and it seems so dumb to connect this horror moment to that.

But you, he is, King is making these statements about what it’s like to deal with alcoholism. He wrote it while he was dealing with alcoholism.

[01:03:11] Donna: I don’t want my answer to be the same. We only have two choices, there’s four of us, right?

[01:03:16] Rebekah: But… You know we named this podcast The Book Is Better. So it’s…

[01:03:21] Donna: It’s okay. The book just is broader. You read it and it’s unsettling and there’s creepy parts in it. It’s a creepy theme. But you genuinely are cheering for these characters to make it. King establishes them very well. And I’d mentioned before, the audiobook reader, he does a great job of them. Danny, he just gives this beautiful character to Danny that you envision.

I’m definitely gonna go with the book on this one. Kudos to King.

[01:03:53] Rebekah: I’m gonna say… I said it the first episode and it’s probably still true for the most part now that we know biographies are my exception so far. I always think the book is better. I think that this book had. deep, complex characters with really interesting character development.

As Josiah said, I cared about them. I loved Danny. I, the one of the changes we didn’t even discuss in great detail was, literally at the end of the book Jack comes like Danny realizes that Jack is not his dad anymore like he realizes that he’s now the hotel and he starts saying you’re not my dad and they like in the book King starts referring to Jack with the pronoun of it he doesn’t even call him a him anymore I mean you know and it’s very clear and Jack stops and there’s like a point where he comes back to himself for just a moment before he was going to attack Danny and he says run yes and so He tells his son to run, tries to save his life.

And it’s this really poetic I don’t know, it was just really beautiful. And so redemptive. Yeah. I felt like the book was just better in making me like I was, Halloran should have lived. I understand the whole like subversion of your expectations that we discussed, but I thought that Halloran should have lived.

He was, built in as this character that meant something, whether or not he arrived and the family was dead. I liked that he lived in the book and all that. So my final verdict is definitely that I prefer the book to the movie, with the appropriate audience, a rewatchable movie that’s like really psychologically weird, and so it’s definitely a rewatchable movie. I enjoy the movie. So it’s not to say that it was bad. I just prefer Reading

[01:05:33] Tim: For me, I suppose my verdict is not all that dissimilar from Rebekah’s the book, though it was difficult to read. And I do audio book now most of the time. And there were a lot of times where I thought I don’t want to listen to it.

I’ve got the time, but I don’t want to listen to it now. But it really did develop the characters, and I really did care about the characters. One thing about the movie, though is that despite the fact that it came out in 1980, And that was a long time ago. It still holds up. It had the things in it hold up well enough that you could, a modern audience could watch it and enjoy it.

But I do definitely think the book is better. Yeah, I like the book better, but the movie certainly stands up. Test of time so far.

[01:06:28] Rebekah: Thanks for listening. If you have feedback, questions, or future episode ideas, email us at bookisbetterpod@gmail.com. We can be found most places online @bookisbetterpod.

Please leave us a rating and review anywhere you listen to podcasts. It helps us so much. And in two weeks, we’re going to start reviewing the Twilight series. Until then, stay spooky!

[01:06:58] Josiah: Movies are shorter. Bye, y’all!