S02E03 — Stardust

SPOILER ALERT: This episode and transcript below contains major spoilers for Stardust (the book by Neil Gaiman and the 2007 film).

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Featuring hosts Timothy Haynes, Donna Haynes, Rebekah Edwards, and T. Josiah Haynes.

Sometimes, magic doesn’t make you feel all that… magical.

Our family reviewed Stardust by Neil Gaiman and its 2007 adaptation by the same name. This episode was quite an interesting one, as none of us was a particularly big fan of either work. 😂 But alas… we do it for the fans!

Final Verdicts

If you haven’t listened to the episode yet, we recommend waiting to read our verdicts. (But you’re probably grown, so do what you want!)

In general, the book and film were both misses for us. Outside of Rebekah’s nostalgic memory of the film, we all just got through this one rather than enjoying it much. But it was an excellent exercise for us!

Tim: The book and film were about the same

Donna: The film was better

Rebekah: The book and film were about the same

Josiah: The film was better

Full Episode Transcript

Prefer reading? Check out the full episode transcript below. It’s AI-generated from our audio, and if we’re being honest… no one sat to read the entire thing for accuracy. (After all, we were there the whole time.) 😉 We’re sorry in advance for any typos or transcription errors.

[00:00:00] Rebekah: Welcome to the Book is Better podcast. This is a clean podcast. We are a family of four and we talk about book to film adaptations. We tell you what we loved, what we hated, what changed, what’s interesting. And, uh, if you’re here, you know, welcome. We’re so glad to have you here. I wanted to do a little bit of a different intro today.
I realize that I kind of say the exact same thing every single time. Um, and I don’t like that. So, I’m gonna, I’m changing it up. I’m being different. 
[00:00:25] Josiah: Worst. 
[00:00:26] Rebekah: Yeah, liverwurst. Okay, today’s spoiler warning. We are discussing Stardust by Neil Gaiman, the book and the adaptation. Really fun film, I think, in some interesting ways and content warning for this episode.
Uh, our general rule around here is if your child could not read the book nor watch the film or one or the other, they probably shouldn’t listen to the episode. And if not, if they can, I guess they can listen. Uh, in this case. Here 
[00:00:56] Josiah: is the weird case with Neil Gaiman. 
[00:00:59] Rebekah: I don’t know how much 
[00:01:00] Josiah: Neil Gaiman I know.
[00:01:02] Rebekah: I think this is the first thing I’ve ever read of his. I know, I have a couple books on my shelf that I’m trying to get to of his, but this was the first, my first one. 
[00:01:09] Josiah: So I don’t think I like him. I think that this, this story helps me understand what is unique about him. I’ve heard some people describe it as family friendly horror.
[00:01:25] Rebekah: I heard that on one of the videos I watched. I would disagree with that. Yeah, I would describe it 
[00:01:30] Josiah: more as really, really edgy PG. Like, it really feels like it’s PG, but it’s PG 13. 
[00:01:39] Rebekah: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would agree with that, I think. Um, in this case, content warning wise, well, yeah. Uh, in this case, content warning wise, the book is probably a little more grown up than the movie.
So, um, if you’re thinking about what you read slash approve your children to read, uh, just be aware. I think the movie is rated PG. I don’t think there’s anything PG 13 about it. Oh, it is PG 13. Well, anyway, I guess there you go. There’s your answer. I mean, I didn’t think about it. 
[00:02:06] Tim: Um, Coraline, he wrote Coraline.
[00:02:08] Rebekah: He did write Coraline. He also wrote Good Omens, which is in my Good Omens is on my shelf to read. My best friend’s mother 
[00:02:17] Josiah: made me watch an episode of Good Omens. 
[00:02:20] Rebekah: How was it? 
[00:02:21] Josiah: She liked it. 
[00:02:22] Rebekah: Did you? No. Oh, okay. I don’t even know what it’s about. I just bought the book 
[00:02:26] Josiah: because I knew it was an adaptation. Now that I’ve seen Stardust, I understand Neil Gaiman’s tone, his voice as an author, and I do not enjoy it.
[00:02:37] Rebekah: Well, now that you guys have made me do Gone Girl, I don’t feel bad about making you do this. So, um, as we tell you who we are, we like to give you our name and who we are and then answer an interesting factoid about ourselves. So today’s, uh, interesting factoid is what is the most magical place you’ve ever visited or want to visit?
[00:03:03] Josiah: Well, I will also try to say some different things to keep it fresh. I’m Paul. I live under their house. That’s a weird name. I just kind of I’m the small 
[00:03:16] Tim: hairy man that lives under the house. Is that what you said? Under whose house? 
[00:03:20] Josiah: No, I am Josiah. All of your houses. I’m Josiah. I am the brother people of this people family.
And the most magical place I’ve ever visited 
[00:03:36] Tim: or wish to visit. 
[00:03:38] Josiah: Yeah, that’s that one’s important or wish to visit. I didn’t think about it until I just said it out loud.
Broadway is probably one of the coolest places I’ve been able to visit. Yes. The New York city, we were able to be like, we were. I think we were staying a few blocks away from Times Square, but to be able to walk to Times Square and, and go see a, a play and say, Hey, you know, I don’t have any tickets for today.
Let’s see who can do student rush tickets, who has day of tickets. It was a magical experience. Even if I wouldn’t necessarily want it to be my everyday life, it was pretty, pretty magical. 
[00:04:22] Donna: Well, my name is. Goatfish. Again, that’s not your real name, you do sound sick. I’ve also been called Donna, and Tim calls me Sweetheart, so I have many names.
I’m the wife and mom of our fun little fairy village in the UK. 
[00:04:46] Rebekah: Are you alright? 
[00:04:47] Donna: Yeah, you said we’re supposed to be trying to talk different. Oh! 
I’m like, uh. You went for ill fairy. Ill fairy baby. I am ill fairy. 
I’m not trying to talk different like that. Oh, okay, 
[00:05:04] Rebekah: well. 
[00:05:05] Donna: Okay. Alright, so 
[00:05:07] Rebekah: Goatfish, what is your real name?
[00:05:08] Donna: Oh, Donna. I said my name was Donna. I just, you know, was trying to come up with something, you know, kind of clever or whatever. Uh, which obviously did not work as I intended. But, um, the most magical place I’ve ever visited. Would probably be the cruises we’ve taken. Um, it’s, it’s very, obviously cruises are touristy, but they do a pretty good job of making you feel.
Um, like you’re in a magical setting and they try very hard to do that. And so of course the, the water, the being on the water and being, um, in this different place, and there’s lots of lights and flashing things and shows and all that stuff. 
[00:05:59] Tim: My name’s Tim. I am the husband and the father of this troop of people.
And I would say that, uh, the, the most magical place that I would like to visit Um, is probably New Zealand, uh, and parts that were, that were used for the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. I love books and I love the films. Um, I would love to go there, but, but just get, just getting there would take, you know, you’d have to take a two week vacation.
Three weeks would be even better just to be able to do a little bit of stuff. 200 
[00:06:35] Donna: percent worth it. Haha. 
[00:06:37] Rebekah: Definitely. Uh, my name is Rebecca. I’m the daughter slash sister of the podcast. Because I don’t need everything to be interesting. 
[00:06:47] Tim: Right. 
[00:06:49] Rebekah: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, Magical Place. I really am excited to go to Harry Potter World in Florida.
I, and now, I guess I’m waiting until next year, and so they’ll have the whole new section, which means a third part of the Harry Potter World, as well as Super Nintendo World, which I’m very excited about, and it’s the only one that has a Donkey Kong World, and it’s got a very unique rollercoaster with a With a, um, trope that has not been used before, so I’m super excited about that.
Um, that’s one of the places I want. There aren’t enough Yoshi coasters. You know, there’s not. There is a Yoshi ride, but it’s not a good one. It’s like a, For babies. It’s like a kiddie ride. It’s like what 
[00:07:27] Josiah: Yoshi is for babies. 
[00:07:31] Rebekah: Anyway, uh, this will be Josiah’s last episode on the podcast, um, no, I also, um, I did visit China several years ago and I did see the Great Wall and that felt kind of magical in a different way.
It’s just interesting when you go somewhere that you know something has been there for literally like, Thousands of years, like that’s insane to me to think about because I live in America. So like, there’s very little that’s been here that long other than just natural structures, but it’s kind of cool to walk a man made thing that was that old.
[00:08:04] Tim: I felt the same when I went to Italy. I saw the Colosseum and different things there and the Leaning Tower of Pisa. And I saw Venice, which was not romantic. It was one of the dirtiest places I’ve ever been. Um, so. 
[00:08:18] Rebekah: Well, um, as we begin discussing Stardust, Mom, why don’t you give us a little intro to how the book and film are structured, and then we are trying a new structure to our episodes in which we kind of walk you through the plot as we talk you through the differences.
And so we’ll get to that next. 
[00:08:36] Donna: I would love to share this with you. Stardust is a novella by Neil Gaiman that tells the story of a boy from a town in England who travels to the land of Faerie to retrieve a fallen star for his love. This classic fantasy tale contains 10 chapters and a brief epilogue and uses a vast number of traditional fantasy tropes.
Its adaptation by the same name follows the basic book plot somewhat closely. But is more of a straight retelling than a mysterious magical journey full of unexplained magical occurrences. The film is an enchanting and mostly charming story. Whereas the book is likewise more fantastical and a bit more grown up.
[00:09:24] Rebekah: So we’re going to go into differences. Uh, we’ve got a couple of setting changes to discuss first and then we will head into the plot and timeline. And for the purposes of this book, based on how characters were introduced, our character changes, we weaved into the plot and timeline changes. So as we meet characters, we talk to you a little bit about them.
So let’s go through setting changes. 
[00:09:46] Donna: So the book takes place in the town of Wall, a fictional place in England, hundreds of years in the past. The land beyond Wall is referred to as Ferry Island. Uh, in the book spelled F A E R I E, which I thought was fascinating, I think so. And one of the most significant parts of the world of Faerie is the kingdom of Stormhold.
In this film, this is simplified. The land beyond Wall is Stormhold, and there’s no mention of Faerie at all. I get it. I get, I totally got why they did it. I think, I think it was fun. 
[00:10:22] Rebekah: It made it simpler, and honestly, it doesn’t feel like it made a lot of difference other than just making it easier to understand as a movie watcher.
Uh, there’s also several locations removed from the book, um, and a few are added to the film, so one of the ones that was removed was a forest that pops up importantly, like, pretty early in the story, so we’ll, we’ll mention the significant things that may have been added or removed as we get to the plot.
So, uh, let’s get into the plot and timeline. Josiah, would you like to introduce us to where the story begins? 
[00:10:56] Josiah: This story begins with a brief picture into the life of Dunstan, he’s 18 years old, resident of Wall. In Wall, w a l l, this is a village, there is literally a wall, lowercase w a l l, bordering the entire eastern side of the town.
There’s one gap in this wall, guarded constantly. By residents of the town, you are not allowed to cross the gap. No one’s permitted, normally. Now Dunstan, this 18 year old, he visits a market that he finds in a meadow, just through a gap. The guarded wall of wall. And there he meets a beautiful girl, working at a market caravan, selling glass flowers.
He is bound by a magical silver chain to the market keeping woman, the girl refers to as witch. 
[00:11:55] Rebekah: Yes, the owner of the flower stall. 
[00:11:57] Josiah: Yes, who owns the glass flower stall. Now she and Dunstan, not the witch, but the, the chained up, and Dunstan share a brief but passionate night, the product of which is a baby boy.
Delivered to Dunstan to raise nine months later. 
[00:12:15] Rebekah: Can I ask? I wonder what happened on their night of passion. Well, it’s rather vividly, 
[00:12:20] Tim: it’s vividly portrayed in the book. The film opens with the mention of a query to the Royal Academy of Science from a boy. Living in wall, asking about the existence of a world beyond our own, and the person who gets the query doesn’t think there’s anything to it.
Um, however, then we see Dunstan sneaking past the guard at the gap in the wall. To find the market in Stormhold, the magical kingdom beyond the wall. In the book, there’s no letter mentioned, but we learned that there is a market that takes place for two days, every nine years across the gap in the wall of wall.
People come from all around the world to visit the strange and magical market. Dunstan visits the market along with most of his town and a lot of strangers, which is where he meets the young lady working the glass flower stall, who has pointed ears in the book. 
[00:13:15] Rebekah: Indeed, they do not give anyone elf ears in the movie.
[00:13:18] Donna: I did, I did read a few things about the, the way they attempted to, to put the movie together. They wanted it to be fantasy, But they didn’t want it to be so heavily fantasy that if you weren’t into that genre of movie, you wouldn’t go see it. So they did try to, they tried to kind of make it, yeah, they tried to kind of bridge, bridge that.
It’s not far enough into it to really get me into that, that fantasy realm to, to see it or to experience it. In the book, it’s notable that two men guard the wall at all times and shifts are assigned to the able, to all the able bodied men in town. Dunstan himself has guarded the wall. But in the film, there’s a single old man standing guard.
And we learn later that in the movie that he’s rather capable of stopping people from crossing through the gap. 
[00:14:20] Rebekah: So, uh, when Dunstan gets to the market and he meets this girl at the stall, he notices that the girl has a magical silver chain around her ankle, binding her to the witch who owns the flower stall.
Dunstan and the market girl then share a brief magical night, as you mentioned before. And again, as mentioned before, Dunstan is given a baby boy to raise as thanks for their night of passion. Nine months later, in the film, the baby is delivered to him, like, at his house. In the book, it is left at the wall’s gap, um, where the people from the town guard it.
And so, I just thought it was interesting. With a note that’s sent to them. Yes, with a note. Uh, in both cases, I think it had a note with it. 
[00:15:04] Tim: In the book, the girl at the flower stall tells Dunstan that she is not chained to the witch forever, but that the spell will free her when the moon loses her daughter if that occurs in a week where two Mondays come together.
In the film, this is never mentioned, and it’s assumed that she’s chained permanently. Um, I like the little riddle there, and spoiler alert, you don’t realize until the end how that could happen in the book. Yeah, it takes a while. How two Mundies could, could come together. Um, so that’s, that’s interesting.
The witch who has enslaved the girl goes by two names. A Ditchwater Sal in, in both of them and by that and mistress Samila, or is that how it’s pronounced? Samil is how I say it in my head, but I don’t know if that’s actually correct. And I don’t remember, um, but we encounter her later, so. 
[00:15:56] Josiah: Okay, so after that we’re actually transported 18 years in the future to see that baby grow up into Christian, now a young man, and he’s in love with, drumroll, Victoria Forrester, you’ve never heard of her, the most beautiful girl in the village of Wall, he yearns to capture her heart.
[00:16:16] Rebekah: Yes. And, uh, she is, uh, It’s a basic white girl that annoys me from the very outset, so not in love with that. She’s pretty, I guess. 
[00:16:27] Josiah: Yeah. I went through a roller coaster with her in the movie. 
[00:16:31] Rebekah: Yeah. 
[00:16:32] Josiah: At the beginning, I thought this whole movie really happening because of her is the whole story because he likes her.
And then a little spoiler alert at the end of the movie she gets too much of a comeuppance Okay, she’s just kind of annoying she’s not like evil not mean the main character insults her to her face and physically assaults her Okay, well that’s kind of true. Okay, 
[00:17:07] Rebekah: before Dunstan visited the market in the book, he was in a courtship, which was on its way to marriage, with a lady named Daisy Hempstock.
And after returning from his magical night with the shop girl, Dunstan eventually still marries Daisy. Uh, by the way, which I assume never is told to Daisy that he was with said shop girl. Everybody in town knows. Uh, Daisy is the mother of the shop girl. of Tristan’s younger sister, Louisa. So in the film, Tristan has neither a mother, Daisy, nor a sister, Louisa.
[00:17:35] Donna: Can I say here that Yes. I like the way it was handled a little more in the movie. It wasn’t, you know, she was, you could see her obviously trying to lure him and that kind of thing. But in the book, it just came out as such a quick, all of a sudden, it’s like, oh, we’re going, they’re, we’re going. They’re going to fornicate.
Da 
[00:17:56] Rebekah: da da! And I mean, in the movie, they do walk into the, like, little caravan y thing. Right. It’s not that you don’t know. And you know what’s happening. Right. But it’s fully off screen, for sure. Yeah. There’s also a little thing I didn’t write down. Tristran. Oh, yeah. A little thing. Whatever. No, no, no. Just, just a little thing I didn’t write down where when he was nine in the book, they mentioned that because that thing happened every nine years, the market, that his family sent him off to live, like, to be with his aunt for the summer.
Who lived far away. So he didn’t get to go. Yeah, she lived far away. Oh. And so he didn’t get to go to the market when he was nine. Yeah. To keep, yeah, basically to keep that secret. 
[00:18:32] Donna: The movie uses the name Tristan, but in the book his name is Tristran, And honestly, the first couple of times that Gaiman said it when he was reading, I thought he was, I thought he had a lisp and I was like, Oh crap, his name is Tristran.
He also had a single human and one elf ear in the book. In the film, he looks fully human. There’s no elf ears mentioned. I think some T. J. said that just a minute ago. About all the people. There were no, no elf, uh, um, people, people. His film counterpart is more unsure of himself than the Tristran in the book.
So the movie was, had a little bit more coming of age vibe to it. 
[00:19:19] Tim: I dislike the fact that we lost the, we lost the market stuff in every nine years. I didn’t care for that as much. Um, and I, I thought I was okay with the fact that there was no mom and no sister. They took those out from the book because that’s just too many extra people.
They didn’t need to get in there. Well, and I liked the way they resolved that later too. Confusing. Yeah, this was, this was a little better, but in, uh, in the movie I felt like it made, it made the tryst that his dad had, um, more sanitary. Yeah. Because it’s like he grew up without a mom. Mm mm-Hmm. You know?
Yeah. So he was a single, 
[00:20:00] Josiah: raised by a single father. It seemed like Dunton might’ve been married. He went to the market. 
[00:20:06] Rebekah: He 
[00:20:07] Josiah: was, he was engaged. He was 
[00:20:08] Rebekah: like engaged or betrothed or whatever. He wasn’t married yet, but yes, he was in a relationship, so, 
[00:20:13] Tim: yeah. And it’s the woman that he ended up marrying. In the book.
It’s very Game of Thrones. 
[00:20:18] Rebekah: Uh, I just want to clarify for the listener on our pod today, I did spell in our notes the name out as Tristan because let’s be honest, Tristran is ridiculous and I don’t know why anyone would ever thought that was a good idea because it’s hard to pronounce. Not at all. So, in case you hear us saying it just as Tristan, you will know why.
[00:20:37] Tim: Sometimes authors like to use difficult to pronounce names. No, no. That never happens. 
[00:20:43] Rebekah: Josiah. That never happens. 
[00:20:47] Josiah: Although, we do know that every boy and man in Wall and the surrounding areas finds It’s Victoria to be the most beautiful maiden around. It’s not particularly clear in the book that she is interested in someone other than Tristan from early on in the book.
Uh, later in the book, Victoria’s other love interest is named Robert Munday. How could that be relevant? Although we don’t really learn this till the end of the book, which makes it not a very satisfying conclusion to the riddle. Uh, they could have set it up earlier. 
 
[00:21:20] Rebekah: I think it’s, yeah, he might be mentioned, I think he’s mentioned earlier, but it’s not clear that she, it’s not clear that she wants to love, like, to be with him, if that makes sense.
[00:21:32] Josiah: In the film, Victoria is in love with Humphrey, played by babyface Henry Cavill. And we get a brief scene in the film in which Tristan and Humphrey Nearly come to blows when they visit her in the night. Tristan is also aware of the fact that Victoria wants Humphrey, speaks to his father about it and even learns from Victoria that he is off to buy her an engagement ring all the way in Ipswich.
[00:21:57] Tim: Ipswich! The Victoria in the book, um, was, I don’t know, it was less attractive to me personality wise. Um, whereas the, The Victoria in the film, she actually has an interest in him, and she kind of thinks that she should probably be with Humphrey, but, you know, she kind of likes Tristran, maybe not as much as she likes Humphrey, but we’ll see, but she sits Robert in the book, but yes, okay, right, but I 
[00:22:25] Rebekah: agree, it’s interesting, because I thought I was less interested in her character.
In the book, and then as, when we come back to her later, I was kind of like, I think I feel bad for you. I don’t think I dislike you, I think I just feel bad. 
[00:22:41] Tim: It is at this point in this story. That we’re introduced to the sons of the king of stormhole an abrupt change you say yes
When you’re listening especially when you’re listening to the book suddenly so wait a minute, what what did I forget? What did I miss? Did this skip? Something. So, yeah. Of the original seven sons of the King of Stormhold, three brothers have died, all at the hands of their fellow brothers, and four remain.
An eighth child, a daughter named Una, is mentioned, but she’s been missing for a long time. And as one brother dies, his ghost appears surrounding his father with the other dead brothers, as they all watch the living brothers attempt to kill each other. The king asks his living sons to look out the window and tell him what they see.
Shortly thereafter, the king displays a jewel and throws it into the air, where it travels into the sky and causes a star to fall from the sky. Interesting, because when he sent them to the window, I was expecting, since they all appeared to be out to kill each other, that they would push somebody out of the window.
[00:24:01] Rebekah: Well, in the film, that actually happened when he asks them to look out the window. It’s actually a pretty comical moment where one of the brothers kind of darts his eyes back and forth and then, whoosh, and he just pushes one of his brothers, uh, and the king actually cracks up because as we learn, the king had 12 siblings or brothers, I think, and he murdered all of them in order to become king.
So apparently this is the thing. 
[00:24:24] Tim: Wonderful and honorable. 
[00:24:26] Rebekah: Yeah, so in the book, we don’t see any of the brothers get killed until a little later on, um, in the plot. But it was kind of a funny moment in the movie. That’s where I started really getting Princess Bride vibes. Where it was like that, it’s fantasy, but it’s like silly fantasy in a way.
[00:24:40] Tim: Because in the book, and yeah, in the film as well, the dead brothers are always carrying on this conversation and following along with the brothers trials and what’s going on with the living people. You Um, so that’s, I think that’s kind of funny, you know, Monty Python, Princess Bride. 
[00:24:59] Rebekah: Yeah. 
[00:25:00] Tim: In the book, the jewel that he casts out, and that apparently knocks a star out of the sky, um, is Topaz.
In the film, the king pulls out a ruby, which loses its red hue. And then he tells his son, sons, that the worthy heir to the throne will be the one who restores the color to the ruby. 
[00:25:23] Donna: The star in the sky, struck by the throne jewel, falls to the ground. Tristan, who’s spending time with Victoria to compel her to give him a kiss, sees the falling star and promises it to her.
I did, I did like this in both book and movie, where He’s, he’s the, I mean, I hate that, that this happens in real life, but it does, the nerdy kind of awkward boy, you know, he’ll promise anything. Oh, I’ll do, and I thought it was interesting as we were listening to the book. It’s like, I’ll do anything. I’ll, I’ll go get that star.
And of course, she just goes right along with it, like a, the doting, proud little princess girl, you know. I’m sure they’ll do many things for me. And I’m sure that was the whole point. Wrap them around my little finger. Yeah. 
[00:26:10] Rebekah: Yes, yes. She was so impressed, though. The Humphrey was going all the way to Ipswich.
And it was kind of cute. It gave you the sense of who Tristan was, when she was impressed by this one guy traveling. Very not far to get something for her and he’s like I will bring you the head of a polar bear And I will blow and he was like talking about like basically I will go on crazy Adventures to get you the thing you want and she’s like but this other guy he went 
to Ipswich so potato potato
[00:26:46] Josiah: He promises all these things and he says in the book That he’ll return the fallen star to Victoria in exchange for anything he wishes. And in the film, the exchange is made for her hand in marriage explicitly. And Victoria gives him exactly one week before he must return the star or she will marry Humphrey.
[00:27:08] Tim: That’s interesting because the plot in the book takes Over six months. Over six months they 
[00:27:14] Josiah: say something about six months. They say something about six months. That’s the number that was in my head. 
[00:27:19] Rebekah: In the book there’s no like timeline for when he will get back, which is important because I do think it’s interesting that the film made it a week long thing.
Um, by the way, I think I liked the fact that it was a week. I, I thought it added urgency. Um, in the book I was like, so he’s just like,
Yeah, 
[00:27:42] Tim: I wasn’t terribly impressed with the length of time in the book. There was, it was a little awkward at times, especially as it got toward the end. Back in Stormhold, a trio of witches sees the star fall to the ground as well. And they become very excited, these very old, old, old witches. For it is only by consuming the heart of a star that they can regain their lost youth.
You see, the star takes the form of a young woman. Surprising, you say? The star is a person. Is it Claire Danes? It may be. It is Claire 
[00:28:22] Rebekah: Danes. 
[00:28:23] Tim: This particular star calls herself Evayne, right? Evayne, that’s how we’re pronouncing it? Yeah, because 
[00:28:28] Rebekah: Tristan says it wrong a couple of times and he calls her Yvonne and she’s like, My name is Evayne.
[00:28:32] Tim: Yes. And Yvaine has fallen to the ground with the jewel thrown by the king. One of the witches, after determining where the new star is, or this fallen star is, consumes the final bit of their last star to make herself young again before setting off to work. To retrieve their new prize. So now how many villains do we have at this point?
We’ve got the kind of villain, the person that Victoria is going to marry, and in the movie he’s villainous. Um, and then Victoria 
[00:29:05] Rebekah: is not villainous at this point, in my opinion. Well, 
[00:29:09] Tim: and then 
[00:29:09] Rebekah: we’ve got 
[00:29:09] Tim: the witch that 
[00:29:11] Rebekah: three witches. Oh, the witch at the stall, 
[00:29:13] Tim: the stall who trapped this woman. Um, and we see that she becomes a bird.
Um, and then we’ve got these three witches that are. Uh, after her and then we’ve got these wannabe kings who are all of such high character that the way they’re going to win their kingdom is to kill all of their brothers. Murder their 
[00:29:34] Rebekah: brothers. Right. I will mention, uh, character change from book to film.
Um, that. Confused me, actually, up front. Uh, the witches of the book were simply referred to as the Witch Queen, which was kind of the lead one who is the one that ends up going out on the adventure or whatever to find the star and her sisters. In the film, the witches had names. Uh, La Lamia was, I think it’s Lamia, was the Witch Queen’s name.
Uh, Mormo Uh, and Infusia or Impu like there’s a different word that we mention later, but Infusia I think is what they said. So we’ll call the lead one Lamia throughout our podcast episode, just to keep it simple. But that name is not actually mentioned in the book. So fun little trivia fact for that. The witch’s names are those of demonic creatures from Greek mythology.
Lamia and Mormo were demons who ate children. Um, Lamia was one of Zeus former lovers and uh, Amphusa slash Infusia, depending on where you look, was a creature sent by the goddess Hecate to eat travelers. So they were all, uh, you know, people eaters. 
[00:30:41] Josiah: Meanwhile, Tristan enters the kingdom of Stormhold to find the star so that he may give it to Victoria!
These things are beginning 
[00:30:51] Tim: to 
[00:30:52] Josiah: come 
[00:30:52] Tim: together. 
[00:30:52] Josiah: It’s so awesome that they’re all intersecting with one another. I’m sure that one of the plot threads won’t be completely superfluous. 
[00:31:02] Rebekah: Yeah, I’m sure no one would do that. That’s stupid. . 
[00:31:06] Donna: The movie shows the young man trying to pass by the guard at the gap in the wall, but he gets rebuffed.
’cause I told you the little guard guy, he’s hardcore, he looks small and unobtrusive. That was funny. Apparently a ninja. 
[00:31:21] Josiah: That was very funny. Funny. It was funny. I like that the world was evolving as I was watching the story. Yes, 
[00:31:26] Rebekah: he, the old man at the wall kicks. Tristan’s, yeah, hoot, like he kicks his patoot out the door.
You know what I’m saying? 
[00:31:35] Donna: Well, Tristan then confronts his father, Dunstan, because he learns that his father also crossed the wall when he shouldn’t have. We learn that Tristan is relieved to know that he has a mother, which he did not know to be the case until this time, before this time. In the book, this isn’t mentioned, as Dunstan was permitted at the market.
With the entire town when he had the brief encounter that led to the birth of his son. 
[00:32:03] Rebekah: In the film, Tristan gets across the wall when his father burns a magical black candle. Which shines brightly before the boy disappears. This confused me, by the way. I will clarify what it does in the book, but I was, I haven’t seen this movie since it came out, and so I was like, What just happened?
Like, it totally threw me for a loop. So, in the movie again, so, the candle shines brightly, Tristan disappears, and then reappears, collapsing on top of the fallen star in her crater. So in the book, Tristan again, he’s able to sneak through the gap in the wall, or his dad helps him get through the gap, I’m not, I think we’re unclear exactly on that, and I don’t remember.
Um, He meets a small hairy man with whom he shares a brief adventure in which they nearly become captured by trees in a serwood. I don’t even know what a serwood is, but it’s mentioned. The small man is part of some fellowship, like a, they call it something fellowship. He goes and brings Tristan what is left of one of these candles, which is also used in the movie.
We learn later they’re called Babylon candles. The candle transports him forward to a different location in the direction he’s going with each step that he takes. So rather than the six month journey that he knew it would take to get to where the star fell, Tristan gets to her within a matter of seconds.
[00:33:28] Tim: Okay. I like the way that the book does this, because each step takes him to a new place. Yes. And there’s a continual movement forward. In the movie, it’s just, it takes him straight to the star. 
[00:33:44] Rebekah: To the thing he’s thinking about going 
[00:33:46] Tim: to. And that’s what you’re doing with the other way, too. It takes you to the thing you’re thinking about.
But, uh, I like the way that it did it in the book. Um, seemed like it would have been a, a better way. Really neat visual for each step to take him to a, to a new place. He’s on the mountaintop and he’s down by a river Valley and then whatever. Uh, that would have been interesting. I think the book includes an ongoing feature that Tristan has.
Likely because he’s half fairy, Tristan is able to sense where things are. When asked, he can tell in which direction a thing or person is, and about how far away. This is not in the film, and there’s a correction on that. Okay. When asked, he can tell in which direction a thing or place is, but not a person.
And he can tell how far away. That, uh, thing or place. So he could tell where the 
[00:34:39] Rebekah: star was, but not other humans? Is that what you’re saying? Because 
[00:34:41] Tim: the little hairy man asked him, you know, where is, where’s the star? Where’s this place? Where’s this town? That Tristan had barely heard of or never heard of.
And he could always point it out. And he, and then he said, talked about the king of Stormhold or different people like that. And he, He didn’t know where they were. So he said, so you can do it with things and places, but not with people. The Little Hairy Man is the character that I do wish they had kept. I loved him!
I thought he was very interesting and, um, I wish the book would have used him a little more than it did. When Tristan 
[00:35:17] Josiah: first finds the star, and I, you know, maybe part of taking out the Hairy Man and his adventures Maybe part of taking out the Hairy Man and Tristan’s adventures with him is so that Tristan can get to the star as fast as possible, which I did feel like the film even took a long time for Tristan to get to the star.
When Claire Danes became the star, which we’re just about to mention, I thought, wait, this is what the movie’s about? We’re 20 minutes into an hour and 40 minute movie, and we just got to the star? Being Claire Danes? Anyway. Tristan uses a silver chain to capture the star lady. Similarly to how his mother was bound to the witch.
She served. She served, she was a slave to. Can we talk, can we just talk about how our hero is an ens slaver who punishes. Who he will end up falling in love with, with the same cruel fate his mother had to go through. 
[00:36:22] Rebekah: Okay, I just want to point out. And by the 
[00:36:24] Josiah: way, his mother engaged in a passionate night with Tristan’s father when she was a slave.
That is a power dynamic that is problematic, Neil Gaiman. 
[00:36:35] Rebekah: It is kind of problematic. I think that the point of why it happens, like why Tristan is okay doing it, is because it’s a star and it, even though she has like a human form, it takes him a while. Like at first he doesn’t see her as a person. He knows that she is a thing.
She’s And then it, it, like, it takes him a while to figure it out. 
[00:37:00] Josiah: What a good guy. 
[00:37:01] Rebekah: Wait, you’re the one that’s supposed to be arguing for character development. Normally I’m the one that hates when people are not perfect in 
[00:37:09] Josiah: books. He ends the film physically assaulting Victoria and insulting her. Okay, he doesn’t Way beyond what she deserves.
[00:37:16] Rebekah: Physically assaulting? He 
[00:37:18] Josiah: drops her into gravel. 
[00:37:19] Rebekah: Oh my gosh, she’s like three inches off the ground. In the 
[00:37:21] Josiah: moment when she thinks When she is lured into a sense of emotional intimacy, she is lured into a moment of emotional intimacy. Imagine if someone like Josh, Josh, whatever it is, if Josh swooped you and swooped you near the ground as if he was about to kiss you in a romantic gesture and then dropped you onto some dirty gravel.
[00:37:47] Rebekah: Well, what’s going on with the sons of the dead King of Stormhold? 
[00:37:51] Josiah: Well, Rebecca, let me tell you that the lives. Of the sons of the dead king of Stormhold, their lives are consumed with a quest not only to find their father’s stone. That necklace. His kidney stone. But also to kill one another. 
[00:38:08] Rebekah: His kidney stone.
His 
[00:38:12] Josiah: royal kidney stone. Why did the ruby attach itself to the 
[00:38:17] Tim: star? He knocked the star out of the sky when he threw stone. It didn’t attach 
[00:38:26] Rebekah: itself to her, it landed, no no, it landed next to her, she picked it up and put it on, 
[00:38:33] Josiah: to clarify. I think dad is right that the filmmakers were trying to imply he threw the ruby and that’s what knocked the star out of the sky.
They 
[00:38:41] Rebekah: weren’t trying to imply it, that’s exactly what happened. 
[00:38:44] Josiah: How’d that happen? 
[00:38:45] Tim: But it wasn’t nearly as clear. It’s magic! 
[00:38:48] Rebekah: He 
[00:38:48] Tim: threw it up and it says it never stopped going up, so it went up until it hit a star. It’s magic! 
[00:38:54] Rebekah: This story is about magic. You see, but we 
[00:38:58] Josiah: can’t just make things happen. 
[00:39:00] Rebekah: Well, that’s one of my primary issues with the book.
But we haven’t gotten there yet. 
[00:39:05] Josiah: I mean, we’ve gotten a song of it. 
[00:39:08] Rebekah: It was difficult. Like, I think one of the things that threw me off about the book and reminded me that I like modern fantasy a lot more is that the magic system was just kind of like weird, weird stuff. Look weird. That’s weird too. Magic.
Like it’s magical. Cause that’s why it’s happening. 
[00:39:28] Josiah: 1999. What are you thinking of as modern? 
[00:39:31] Rebekah: It was written as classic fantasy to me. Modern. I know it’s not necessarily actually in different time periods, but like Brandon Sanderson, I just. Finished the Mistborn original trilogy, and I’m reading more in that his stuff is like modern fantasy where it’s the magic system is like, well explained, and it’s, it works like this.
You don’t just say, Oh, and, and, and then this is, Oh, it’s the, the moon speaks and unicorns and also stuff you can throw Ruby in the sky and then ghosts For some reason, like it’s just like I see classic fantasy in some ways of just kind of being like weird stuff. That’s, that’s the whole explanation. Yep.
[00:40:15] Donna: Well, one thing that is super clear in the book, we get to learn a lot of stuff about how the brothers try to off each other. 
[00:40:24] Rebekah: This is true. 
[00:40:25] Donna: They don’t drink or eat anything. They don’t carry or make themselves. For fear of poison. And they’ve killed in many manner, uh, of burnings and stabbings, and so on.
Who else only drank his own potion? In a past work we discovered this summer. Little pop quiz. Moody. But all of these guys had both their eyes. So, Moody, Mad Eye. Moody, Mad Eye. 
[00:40:56] Rebekah: Parentheses. 
[00:40:57] Donna: Alastor. Alastair. Yes, Alastor. 
[00:41:01] Rebekah: Alastor. Alastor. 
[00:41:03] Josiah: Alastor. 
[00:41:04] Rebekah: Yeah, that too. 
[00:41:05] Josiah: Come on down to the Alastor. I got 3. 99. I got 5. 99.
Alastor. for 3. 99. 
[00:41:11] Rebekah: I am incredibly prophetic and can see the future because Josh will be editing this podcast sitting over here. And I just saw him in the future. Go. Oh 
[00:41:22] Rebekah: my God.
[00:41:28] Rebekah: He’ll just be like, here’s what I tell you. I’ll just, I’ll just tell you my favorite one. Mom will be like, we’ll be talking about like Harry Potter. And then she’ll be like, you know, In Lost in Space. He’ll just pause it and be like, What? What is she talking about? 
[00:41:47] Rebekah: I like to 
[00:41:48] Rebekah: connect 
[00:41:49] Donna: stuff we’ve done. Like, I try to connect 
[00:41:53] Rebekah: things.
Yeah, totally. I agree. I get it. I 
[00:41:55] Donna: like that little pop. I like 
[00:41:57] Rebekah: it. I’m better than him is what Is that 
[00:42:00] Donna: it? Well, um, in the film, the plot lines are much more brief. They do indeed at least poison one. 
[00:42:09] Tim: Right, but we see the ghosts, and we see how they died a little bit. 
[00:42:13] Donna: And I will tell you, I did like that. I thought it was cool how they had each of them made up in the way exactly when they died.
Like the guy had the axe in his head. Yeah, I thought that was very funny. And one of them was burned or whatever. So I did think that was good. I thought that the brothers as ghosts, I did think that was a cool comic relief. They didn’t have them on like too much, but you did get little glimpses of them and they’re all looking at each other and like, Oh, great.
And then they think, they think that Septimus was going to die and it would be like, Oh, okay. He’s going to die. Oh no, he lived. Crap. And so I did, I didn’t like that in the movie. 
[00:42:54] Rebekah: I did like the brothers. I would say, um, Kind of thinking about things the way Josiah often presents them. If it doesn’t impact the plot, did you really need it?
Was it a good idea to use it? And in this case, I think if you got rid of basically everything that happened with the brothers, the plot ends the same way. So, I don’t know that they’re necessary. They literally try 
[00:43:16] Josiah: to help the living brothers and fail. Like at the end, the brothers are like, behind you, or she’s the star, or something like that, and they literally, it’s almost as if the living brothers say, no, no, no, I want you to be edited out of the movie.
[00:43:32] Tim: But, to be fair, in the book, every time they speak, the author says, But it came out as just wind passing through the, the trees to, to the people around, so they couldn’t hear. It’s like the, the ghosts could see what was happening and they were talking, but the living couldn’t hear them talking. 
[00:43:54] Donna: Yeah. But that, that does remind me of an episode of Hee Haw, where Ha ha ha!
Sorry, that was for you, Josh. I just had to do it. I’m sorry I couldn’t help it. 
[00:44:05] Rebekah: Okay, so going back to Tristan and Evayne slash the star, Tristan shows her what is left of his Babylon candle in the film and says that he promises she can use it to return to the sky after he has shown her to his true love Victoria to win her hand in marriage.
[00:44:23] Josiah: As if Victoria would accept that temporary gift as a 
[00:44:27] Rebekah: hand in marriage. In the book, Tristan does not make this promise. Um, what we are led to believe, I think, is that he planned to offer the star to Victoria so that 
she could keep it. Not just see one time, so he was not only enslaving the star, but planning to keep her enslaved forever.
So, that was a little uncomfortable. It’s 
[00:44:52] Josiah: so easy to just enslave things. 
[00:44:54] Rebekah: Ha! In magic! Woo hoo hoo hoo! Magical enslavement. 
[00:45:01] Tim: The witch queen, Lamia, continues her journey to find the star. She captures a boy that she turns into a goat and uses him and a real goat to pull her little cart. Lamia also runs into the witch with the glass flower caravan.
Meeting her and her captured girl, who spends most of her time as a beautifully colored bird. The caravan witch, Ditchwater Sal, feeds Lamia Limbusgrass to force her to share the truth. And Lamia tells her about the fallen star. Angry at the other witch’s betrayal and forcing her to tell the truth. The Witch Queen curses Ditchwater Sal to be unable to sense the star by sight, smell, touch, or any other method.
Which is kind of comical in all of that because she can never hear her speaking, or see her, or talk about her. I do love that. 
[00:45:56] Rebekah: I do love that. 
[00:45:57] Josiah: Wow! And that Whole exchange really impacts the plot later on. It actually does. 
[00:46:08] Donna: See, you’re seeing parts of it. It really does. That’s 
[00:46:11] Rebekah: actually one part that really does impact the plot.
[00:46:14] Josiah: Okay, we’ll see. Okay. For now, Tristan leaves Evayne tied free with the magical chain while he goes out to seek food. Oh, that’s so kind of him. She’s never hungry, so it’s just for him. Well, nevermind. It’s less kind. It’s not so kind to his slave. She is then rescued by She is then rescued by a unicorn. A unicorn out of nowhere deus ex mania who helps her disentangle from the tree.
Of course, Rebecca loves a unicorn. 
[00:46:47] Donna: unicorn. I love 
[00:46:48] Rebekah: a unicorn. If you don’t have a unicorn in your fantasy story, then what the heck are you doing? Yeah, why doesn’t the 
[00:46:55] Josiah: unicorn Why doesn’t the unicorn just like Go and get the ring of power around its little horn and fly into Maldiva. Well, 
[00:47:05] Rebekah: because in Lord of the Rings, um, 
[00:47:10] Donna: Did you notice how behaved I was and didn’t mention that the goat is played by the same actor that played Arthur Weasley?
I didn’t even say that. 
[00:47:18] Rebekah: Shut up, it is. Oh, yeah, the goat, when they turned, we haven’t gotten to that part, I was confused. You know the unicorn? The unicorn was played by Arthur Weasley? She turned 
a guy into a goat. I 
thought that you were talking about the guy she turned into a goat, not the goat she turned into a guy.
Oh, why? And so I 
was like, that’s not 
the 
guy who played Arthur Weasley. And then I remembered the scene later. There’s a guy and a goat? Goat. 
[00:47:45] Donna: Turned into a goat, and a goat that turned into a goat. 
[00:47:47] Josiah: There it is. And they’re 
[00:47:48] Donna: two different things? Yes. 
[00:47:51] Josiah: Bernard and Arthur Weasley. 
[00:47:52] Donna: I’m afraid I slept through some things.
I’m just, I’m so lost. You guys are talking about all these details. I’m going, oh my god. I listened to the whole book. I watched the movie. Oh, I was so 
[00:48:06] Josiah: mad. 
[00:48:07] Donna: This could provide insight. As to why I watch things multiple times, and read them multiple times. Because it’s like the 10 where you figure out what was happening.
Yes. One thing we learn in the book is that the unicorn was sent by the moon to help the star. Magic! 
[00:48:28] Rebekah: Yeah! It’s 
[00:48:30] Donna: magic. The 
[00:48:32] Josiah: moon, the mother of all stars. 
[00:48:36] Donna: So the, the unicorn was sent by the moon to help the star. However, unlike the movie, where the unicorn just enters into the scene to save Yvaine, meaninglessly, there’s no, it has, it’s devoid of meaning.
It just enters and it saves her. The two find the unicorn. In the book, the two find the unicorn locked in a battle with a lion, and they help it secure victory, earning its trust. 
[00:49:06] Josiah: Oh, save the cat. Well, kill the cat to save the horse. 
[00:49:11] Donna: Yeah. The moon tells Tristan that she hopes he will help her daughter, Yvaine.
But in the film, Tristan hears the whispering voice of the moon telling him of what happened to the last star captured and killed. By the three witches. So the moon has purpose, but, 
[00:49:31] Rebekah: uh, no, in the book, I thought it was a little confusing because she just makes like one statement and then she wants to say something else and gets distracted.
Like it was a very weird magic moment. Um, so in the film, I liked it because it’s basically used to lead into a, um, flashback of the other star falling the last time these three witches stole her because the star. Gives them youth, like the star keeps them young and as they use magic, they expend it like the youth given by the star.
And so that’s why all the witches want the stars for youth, yada, yada, yada. So I liked it better in the movie. 
[00:50:06] Josiah: It was good to show that backstory through this way, through this thing that kind of happened in the book. And you’re able to add to something that happened in the book, make it better. But he was sleeping.
He was sleeping and he, I don’t know that he heard the moon. In the movie and the book or, or just the movie? The movie mainly. I, I was kind of, I was laughing while watching it. He didn’t react to any of it. The moon was just whispering to him while he was asleep. He was 
[00:50:34] Donna: pointless. Yeah. 
[00:50:36] Josiah: And I, did he ever acknowledge that he was gonna start helping the star because the moon asked him to?
I don’t think so. 
[00:50:47] Rebekah: Oh 
[00:50:51] Tim: my gosh. Stop blowing holes in the story. The unicorn. Takes the star away from 
[00:51:00] Rebekah: Tristan, saves 
[00:51:03] Tim: the star from Tristan, but then he finds them again and he helps her. Yeah, he has to find them at the end. 
[00:51:09] Josiah: Yeah, okay. 
[00:51:10] Rebekah: Yeah, because he had, they were with the unicorn when he tied her to the tree.
Like that happened in reverse order of when we said it. In an attempt to capture the star, Lamia transforms her goats, remember this is the witch queen, she transforms her goats, who are currently goats, into a man, which is the goat that was a goat, and into a young girl, who was the goat that was a boy, and now he’s a girl.
She constructs a magical inn on a road that she knows the star will be traveling on, and she tells the goats, That now look like a man and a young girl that they are her family and she’s pretending to be the innkeepers wife Okay, so while this is happening 
[00:51:50] Josiah: and this is after she she lost the star or she’s struggling to find the star and in the In the movie at least she contacts her sisters.
Yeah. 
[00:51:58] Rebekah: Yeah, so it’s one of the times she contacts them So in the movie she contacts them frequently There’s only one time in the I think she only does it one time in the book. 
[00:52:07] Josiah: And so in the movie, I thought it was funny, the sisters tell her, this is exactly what you have to do and where you have to do it.
And Lamia says, okay, I need to, I need to trick the star. I’m going to invent an inn. I’m going to use as much magic as possible 
[00:52:26] Rebekah: to trick her with an inn. 
[00:52:28] Josiah: And instead of, I don’t know, magicking into existence. A prison around the star and then, I don’t know, a star is better, a sad star is better than no star.
Magic doesn’t work that way. 
[00:52:44] Rebekah: Here’s the problem, magic doesn’t work that way because You can’t, in this world, the author decided how magic worked even when it didn’t line up with any of the other ways magic worked. And then anything you think it could have done, it probably couldn’t have done because that’s not how it 
[00:52:58] Josiah: works.
It’s magic, magic, magic. That’s how it works. Great logic. 
[00:53:01] Rebekah: Exactly. Okay, so while the inn is being constructed by Lamia, Tristan, he’s looking for the star and he hitches a ride with one of the two remaining living princes of Stormhold. Is it Primus? Yes. It’s Primus. I could not keep their names in order, so I’m really sorry.
You couldn’t keep their names in order? 
[00:53:22] Josiah: They’re literally named after their birth order. 
[00:53:24] Rebekah: So, he hitches a ride with one of those remaining princes, uh, which is very interesting to me. I thought the prince in the book was, I liked the book prince better in that case. He seemed like the one they were trying to paint as the one that would have been the better king.
But anyway. Okay. Uh, so, all of these people, the star, and Primus. The prince and Tristan and obviously all the people, Lamia’s folks are all there. And the unicorns. They converge on the witch’s inn and the unicorn who is carrying the star. Lamia, who’s obviously again pretending to be the innkeeper’s wife, offers the star a comfortable night’s lodging, gives her a bit of a spa treatment, little bath, to help her heart glow again as it has grown dark with despair.
Both bath 
[00:54:11] Donna: things were creepy. Like, I think of the star as, like, childlike. I realize she was, looked like a young adult woman. Thousands of years old, or whatever. 
[00:54:19] Josiah: Wow, Rebecca. Might as well be billions of years. 
[00:54:23] Rebekah: What? So, the witch is trying to make, uh, the star happy, because if her heart is glowing, it will be more youth, I guess.
Uh, magic. And so then Tristan finds the star in just enough time to save her from the witch, but one of the remaining two princes gets his throat cut in the process. Lamia burns down the inn with green fire, and unfortunately all of this magic expends much of what’s left of her little remaining youth.
Yeah, it’s very intense. 
[00:54:55] Donna: Um, Michelle Pfeiffer had like, how much makeup did she endure during this movie? She was like, so many levels of old and decrepit. There’s a character change here. The young man who is now turned into a young lady at the end. Not 
[00:55:13] Rebekah: the one that was a goat turned into a man, the man was turned into a goat.
Right. All those 
[00:55:18] Donna: things. The young man who is now turned into a young lady at the end was named Brevis in the book, but goes by Bernard in the film. And let me just say, at this point, when he becomes She turns him into a young lady and he begins noticing these cleavage and okay, this is where it took a stupid 
[00:55:40] Tim: turn.
He’s a little taken aback by this. The 
[00:55:42] Donna: bath scenes were weird and then this guy going through that and whatever. 
[00:55:48] Tim: I think the director wanted a little more fun and humor into it. Yeah, they were trying to put more 
[00:55:54] Rebekah: whimsy. 
[00:55:55] Donna: I read 
[00:55:56] Rebekah: that, as Josiah said, maybe a studio choice more than anything. But yeah. 
[00:56:01] Tim: Well, during the scene where Lamia helps get the star’s heart shining by treating her to a bath, She also fixes her broken leg in the film.
In the book, the leg never fully heals and she spends the rest of her immortal life with a slight limp. Can I say, I thought that the limp was very poorly executed. I thought she did a bad job with the limp. It always looked like she was, Oh, I’m supposed to, I’m supposed to be limping. Oh, oh, I’m supposed to be limping.
[00:56:31] Josiah: Master of her craft. How dare you insult Claire Danes. In Homeland 
[00:56:38] Tim: she is. I don’t know about this. The limping didn’t look normal. 
[00:56:43] Rebekah: We have a little bit of a divergence in terms of the movie keeping things lighter and the book So, keeping things a little creepy. Uh, when we see the unicorn, who does get involved in this fray at the inn, um, and helps rescue or helps basically, like, push off ssshh the witch.
The witch queen? The name I forgot. Lamia? So the unicorn comes in to the inn at the, like, during the fray and kind of helps, obviously, Tristan and the star. And its fate in the film is unclear. We’re not necessarily given a reason to think that the unicorn died, but it does not rejoin them later. In the book, the unicorn is violently murdered at the inn and later necromanced by 
the witch queen, who eventually cuts off its head to use for a spell.
[00:57:31] Rebekah: Yeah. Hmm. 
[00:57:33] Josiah: Bernard escapes the fray at the inn, joins Septimus. As a lackey in the film. His book, counterpart Brees End. 
[00:57:42] Rebekah: Mm. I did think that was an odd choice to keep him alive, but I thought it was interesting they used him interestingly. 
[00:57:48] Josiah: I guess I liked it. I liked that Bernard was still, I, I didn’t like a lot of this.
I didn’t like this film. Sense of humor. Mm-Hmm. . But if you’re gonna have Bernard, it was interesting to have kind of a comic relief who went from Mia’s side to Septus side. Didn’t really do much, but it was kind of interesting. 
[00:58:10] Tim: Let me ask what hopefully will be a quick question. What did you think of the performance of the goat that was turned into a man who was the innkeeper?
What did you think of his performance? I thought it was very funny. I loved him jumping up on the 
[00:58:24] Rebekah: counter, and I loved him having whatever the rag or whatever it was in his mouth. Like, it was very, I thought it was funny. That was the 
[00:58:31] Tim: wash rag for the bar. It was very 
[00:58:33] Josiah: funny. Out of context, it was very funny.
But the context was a movie where a unicorn was dying in a fire. 
[00:58:42] Rebekah: It didn’t 
[00:58:42] Donna: die 
[00:58:43] Rebekah: in the 
[00:58:43] Donna: movie. 
[00:58:45] Josiah: I mean, it got burnt up. 
[00:58:47] Donna: So we’re leaving the burning inn. When Tristan and Evayne escape, the boy holds the remaining crumbs of his Babylon candle into the flames. They move far away again this time, landing on the cloud and are then captured by a pirate ship tasked with capturing and selling lightning bolts.
[00:59:12] Rebekah: Magic . 
[00:59:14] Tim: Magic. 
[00:59:14] Donna: Magic, 
[00:59:14] Tim: magic, 
[00:59:16] Donna: magic. 
[00:59:16] Josiah: I’m fine with 
[00:59:17] Rebekah: this. . I thought it was clever. Landing on the cloud in the movie was interesting ’cause he said, think of home to the star Air when you put the Babylon candle CAD gun in the flames. That is my home. Yeah, and she was like, I was thinking of the sky, and he was like, I was thinking of wall.
And so, like, they landed halfway between, which was like, on a cloud. In the book, they just land on a cloud. Like, he tells her to step forward, and the last, like, two steps or whatever that they can take, take them to the cloud, which is apparently on the, on their journey. So, um, Very, very different pirate ship, uh, book to film.
So, uh, in the book, the pirate ship is full of kind people. They befriend the duo and help them. One of the pirate girls named Megit helps Evayne get her leg back to almost normal. So again, she limps forever in the book, but Megit helps her heal it as much as possible. Um, in the film, at first, they are tied together, imprisoned on the boat.
Face of the ship, like the bottom of it for a period of time, and believe their lives to be threatened by the Captain, captain Shakespeare 
[01:00:21] Josiah: while all of this is happening and it, it turns into a little bit of a lengthy segment of the film. Mm-Hmm. , I think it’s a pretty normal segment of the book. It’s only 10 chapters.
This book. Yeah. Um, but it’s a lengthy segment in the film. While that is happening, Lamia and the remaining Prince Septimus continue their separate frantic searchings for the stone and star. So 
[01:00:44] Rebekah: we hop back and forth a lot at that point in the film. It’s kind of like, here’s a scene and then here’s somebody else doing another thing and it’s very like, frenetic.
It does bounce a little. I liked that 
[01:00:53] Josiah: there was a first climax. This is something I like to do in my stories is have a mid book climax where a bunch of crazy stuff happens that Is epic enough to be the climax of the film. It’s like, oh, the prince and the witch and the star and Tristan all converging at the end.
I don’t know, that’s something that could be the end of your story. Right. And so I liked that it was the mid story climax. And I think it’s appropriate after a mid story climax to have a lull where we get, Ruminate on what just happened, on how we’re changed, how we need to change. Yeah. Uh, so yes, it goes back and forth as the different characters, ideally, so, I’m giving the book and movie a lot of credit here, but as the book and movie ruminate and their characters figure out what their next steps are, how they can adjust, what they really want.
I think that structurally this is okay. 
[01:01:50] Rebekah: They really, really want, so tell me what you, 
[01:01:52] Josiah: sorry. I wanna, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna. 
[01:01:57] Tim: Well, Prince Septimus is challenged with an honor bound quest in the book. He must find the person who killed his brother and bring the murderer to justice by their own death.
Or he will not be able to receive the title of king. Since he didn’t actually kill his brother, which wouldn’t have been a problem. This means he must now find the witch queen, Lemia. In the film, Septimus instead discovers that the stone that he seeks is with a star. And he wants to find the star for she can offer him eternal life and allow him to become the king.
So now how many villains do we have? 
[01:02:42] Rebekah: Yeah, this is the part, especially in the book, I think when it was like, also now this thing comes into play where you have to kill the killer of your brother. And I’m like, if you’re the killer, it’s fine. Yeah, it just, it started to get a little overcomplicated. I think it was good that they did not do the whole, you gotta kill the person who killed your brother in the movie.
I thought that would have been very confusing. Um, but yeah, it gets, it got a little bit too much. Like, I don’t even understand exactly who I’m rooting against. at this point. Um, I’m, I was glad they did it like that, but then he was like, I need the star cause it’ll let me live forever. And I’m like, that’s a witch thing.
Like don’t witches eat the star heart? Like, isn’t that the, anyway. Yeah. I got confused. Not confused exactly, but I just didn’t think it was great. 
[01:03:27] Josiah: Thematically speaking in the book, I like I think it’s ironic and appropriate that there would be no problem if he had killed his own brother, but because someone else killed his brother, he’s being punished.
I think that that is ironic and appropriate for his family’s, you know, They’re quirk of killing each other to get the theme, the themes around the Stormhold royal family. Stormhold? 
[01:03:52] Tim: Killing one another is not a moral conundrum, but allowing someone else to kill your brother is a moral conundrum. 
[01:04:01] Josiah: You’re actually punished for letting someone else kill your brother.
Yeah, true. Which is like, okay, that’s fun, that’s ironic. But yeah, it just proved as a distraction from his real goal, which should have been finding the ruby. 
[01:04:15] Rebekah: So now let’s return to the pirate ship where Evayne and Tristan are waiting. Shakespeare, the captain, then appears at this point to throw Tristan off the ship, While his crew watches from above, and then he takes Evane into his quarters.
And it’s very clear that he’s trying to imply to his crew that he just killed a guy and took her lady into his bed chambers. It’s like a, it’s meant to be very suggestive. 
[01:04:40] Donna: Yeah. There’s a character change at this point. Captain Shakespeare of the film was Captain Johannes, Johannes Albrecht in the book. A friendly but forgettable character.
In the movie. Shakespeare, played by Robert De Niro, creates a fake, tough exterior so that he will be greatly feared without, quote, without ever having to spill blood. In fact, he’s a cross dressing effeminate girly man who enjoys dancing and makeup, but is terrified that people won’t respect him if they know.
This whole thing. Not a fan. I just felt like. They shortened Tristan finding the star. And it still took a little too long in the film, you’re right, before we see her. But then, this whole thing on the boat. Okay, 
[01:05:36] Rebekah: it’s an early 2000s ism, going back all the way to Devil Wears Prada. It comes from what was considered funny, and they were trying to make this a comedic thing.
And like, in Devil Wears Prada, there’s a couple of things that like, you wouldn’t do in movies now, because it’s like, not funny, it’s like, more offensive. And in this case, you couldn’t do this now. But I also, like, I recently watched Dodgeball, for instance, with one of our kids that lives with us. And he was like I don’t like this movie, and I thought it was funny because I grew up around that, like, I’m a millennial, I grew up, that was the kind of humor that was funny to me as a teenager.
But, I do remember the whole thing about, like, cross dressing in particular was a huge, like, comedy trope that killed, like, everybody thought it was hilarious. And so I think it, I don’t think it was, like, trying to make any kind of point, I don’t think it was particularly good or bad. I just thought it was meant to be funny, but it’s one of those things that did not make sense.
at all. 
[01:06:32] Josiah: There were several things in this movie that made me think, yeah, this was made within a couple of years of Devil wears Prada. 
[01:06:39] Rebekah: Yup, 
[01:06:39] Josiah: definitely agree with that. 
[01:06:41] Tim: Well, the pirate captain told Tristan and the star that the reason he chose the name Shakespeare was because he thought it was a fear, a fearsome name because they would think of shaking a spear And they didn’t know the poet.
The bard. And they wouldn’t have known the bard. That’s funny. That’s why he was Shakespeare. We learn that Tristan is actually in the captain’s quarters as well and did not indeed fall to his death. Shakespeare simply made it look that way with clever use of a dummy. He offers Tristan and Evayne new clothes and a haircut for the boy in which his hair grows longer.
It’s magic to prepare them for arrival to port because he says that the people that the people on his boat won’t Recognize that it’s the same person. 
[01:07:31] Josiah: Yeah. Oh, oh cuz he used a hairbrush. He’s like a magic hairbrush 
[01:07:37] Rebekah: Magic. Magic. That’s, yeah. He cut his hair. I mean he literally cut it. There are then used to magic 
[01:07:42] Josiah: hairbrush.
There are magic that I think are fun and fine. Yeah, 
[01:07:45] Rebekah: sure. 
[01:07:46] Josiah: But you can’t just have magic that makes the book pointless. Why did I read the book? When I read a book? I see a magic hairbrush. Make your hair longer. I was like, oh, that’s fun. I see a unicorn that frees the star, and I think, Wait, why did I just read like a whole chapter and a half where she’s imprisoned if the unicorn could have just been here at any time to let her free?
I think that it’s a weird, a weird middle ground of problematic that Captain Shakespeare’s men love the idea Of using Evayne or any woman in any way that the men see fit. Yes. And then they later, this probably, we haven’t mentioned it yet, They do accept Captain Shakespeare saying that they, We do.
They’ve all known all along of his, of his dressing habits and his makeup and his, 
[01:08:46] Donna: That’s, but that’s another, that’s just another reason this drives, that this section drives me crazy. It’s contrived for no other point than Robert De Niro getting to be a cross dresser and it just drives me crazy. It doesn’t help anything.
[01:09:04] Josiah: My point for the podcast is It’s real hypocritical for the movie makers to say, Look, that when men support other men, isn’t it so beautiful? While at the same time not condemning their abuse of women. And it’s like, oh it’s fun to use women however you want. It’s just so hypocritical. After making their trades at the port in the film, the pirates and the main character duo set off again on the ship, traveling through the sky back towards Wall, assumedly for a few days.
At one point, Captain Shakespeare warns Evayne that there are some who seek to do her harm, and that the glowing she lets off when her emotions die. It gives her identity away. We see her glow brightly when Tristan asks her to dance. In the book, the pair remains on the ship for several weeks, but there’s no significant deal made of stops along the way.
It’s not until later that we see Tristan and Evayne develop feelings for one another. 
[01:10:09] Tim: Do you think this was a way to get Um, Ricky Gervais into the movie as well. 
[01:10:14] Josiah: I was about to ask, is this where Ricky Gervais works in? Yeah. 
[01:10:18] Rebekah: Yep, they met him at a 
[01:10:19] Josiah: port. To sell him some of the lightning. This movie just wouldn’t stop.
Yeah, with the stars. This movie just kept having star after star. And Ricky Gervais, who did not fit in the film at all, they were like, well he’s famous a little bit, we gotta put him in here. He’s British. When Rikki Gervais, who kept talking and talking, and eventually Lamia finds him, I assume this is not later since we didn’t mention him here.
When Lamia finds him, she curses him to only talk like a chicken, and now he can’t use words. Rikki Gervais just sits there and he’s like, cluck, cluck, cluck, cluck, and he just sits there while Lamia leaves. And in my head, I’m thinking, kill her! She just took away your livelihood and ruined your entire She essentially killed you and cursed you to a life of not being a human.
Your entire livelihood was based on speaking. Kill her right now! Or try and die in the effort, but, you know, is that better than doing nothing? And then the next scene, they kill him for clucking at the Prince Septimus. I was like, you should have killed her! I didn’t know how right I would be. You were. 
[01:11:27] Donna: But what about when the witches tell their sister Lamia that the star is back on land, headed towards Wall?
They know she must be stopped before arriving if they’re to take her heart for the youth it offers. 
[01:11:40] Tim: Although the book leaves the story of the pirates when they bid Tristan and Evayne goodbye, Goodbye. The film goes back to Captain Shakespeare, dressed in women’s underclothes and dancing the can can in his large closet in his room.
Septimus and his men attempt to overtake the ship to learn where the star went. But the crew is able to defeat Septimus men and chase away the prince before he can kill Shakespeare. 
[01:12:07] Rebekah: After discovering him. Okay, so, we finally do leave the pirates at this point, um, mostly. So on the road to Wall, Evane and Tristan encounter Ditchwater Sal right after they realize that they’re a little too far away from to arrive back 
[01:12:26] Tim: in 
[01:12:26] Rebekah: time for Victoria’s birthday if they simply walk.
Okay, so they encounter Ditchwater Sal who, as a reminder, is the witch who runs the caravan selling glass flowers. Sal tricks Tristan into trading his glass flower to her in exchange for Let’s say, quote unquote, safe passage to the market, uh, but fails to realize she’s a witch and she is going to use his promise against him.
She turns him into a dormouse and feeds him cheese on the journey home so that she doesn’t have to give him full rations. However, as promised by Lamia, Sal is unable to see or perceive the star traveling with him. Which is why I said earlier, the encounter where the Witch Queen curses Ditchwater Sal is very important to the plot, which is why Sal was willing to transport them to the market as promised.
Because true to the letter of her word, Sal gets them back to Wall and does turn him back into a man from a Dormouse. You 
[01:13:22] Josiah: don’t think she would have transported two people? 
[01:13:25] Rebekah: She would have transported two people, but if she could, if she could see the star, she would have just tried to kill the star and like, her whole, she wouldn’t have transported them, she would have tried to, to capture them.
All the witches knew, like, they could recognize the star. 
[01:13:41] Josiah: Right away? 
[01:13:42] Rebekah: I think so. 
[01:13:44] Donna: Okay. 
[01:13:44] Rebekah: Magic. 
[01:13:45] Josiah: Sure. 
[01:13:45] Tim: Magic, 
[01:13:46] Rebekah: magic, 
[01:13:47] Donna: magic. In the magical book, this journey also lasts for several weeks, whereas it’s less than a day in the film. I thought they missed the opportunity to show the beauty and the grandeur of the world by spending time on the ship and highlighting the captain’s unusual personality.
[01:14:07] Tim: Well, during, during their travel in the film, Evayne confesses to Dormouse, Tristan, that she believes she is in love with him. She doesn’t think he hears her, but later finds out that he did. They share a kiss and a night together after arriving at the town just across the border of Stormhold. Not while he’s a mouse.
Like mother, like son. He’s no 
[01:14:30] Rebekah: longer a mouse. In the book. That would be a completely other departure. 
[01:14:36] Josiah: In the 
[01:14:36] Tim: book. 
[01:14:37] Josiah: Maybe a more interesting story. Well, 
[01:14:40] Tim: well. In the book, it’s not until Tristan has seen Victoria one last time that he realizes he loves Evayne and there is no night of passion mentioned between them.
Um. 
[01:14:54] Rebekah: It’s interesting because the book is more chased at this point than the film but was far more graphic when his father met his mother. I listened to the 
[01:15:04] Tim: interview. Well, there’s a little interview at the end of the Audible book and I listened to the interview. Oh yeah, Rebecca, you wouldn’t have heard that, would you?
I listened to the interview with the author and, um, he said something that I thought was really interesting. He was currently, this was being taped. was working on a new book to which he had written chapter three or four. And he said, that would sound like I was far ahead, except I hadn’t written the first chapters.
He started with chapter four. And I’m thinking, you know, according to what mood he might have been in, perhaps the chapter with, Dunstan at the beginning that was so graphic, he wrote at a completely different time and frame of mind himself than the part that he wrote here. So he wasn’t even reading his own book for consistency.
Um, he was writing how he felt or the mood he was in or whatever at the time. 
[01:16:04] Rebekah: It definitely felt like it kind of went one direction and then another, so I totally can get that. Okay, so, as I said, I think I’m the only one who had seen this movie prior to doing this for the episode, and I liked it. When I first saw it, but it, I only saw it once a very long time ago when it was released.
So I watched it today after finishing the book, could not remember what happened in the movie. Like I genuinely remembered, Oh, I like, this was like kind of a fun movie. And that was all I remembered. So I’d read the book, watch the movie. And it’s at this point in the movie that the final plot direction completely diverges.
I was genuinely like, so excited. so confused. I was like, what is, how is there so much time left in the movie? What’s happening? Isn’t it about to be over? Like, and then there were so much more. And I was like, Oh, cause cause the movie and book diverge. So let’s just briefly go through what happens in the movie.
And then we’ll talk about how the book goes at this point. So remember we have just arrived with our two duo back at the market on the ferry side of wall at this point. 
[01:17:12] Josiah: Evayne wakes up and she starts speaking. She’s so in love. She says something along the lines of, I’ve, and she’s turning around in bed.
It’s a fun little trope. Oh, I’ve never been as happy as I’ve been last night. And then he’s not in bed with her. Uh, the innkeeper with their at an end, the innkeeper gives Evayne the message that Tristan left, but confuses the star with his very vague delivery. The innkeeper makes it sound like Tristan has left Evayne for Victoria, after all.
In reality, Tristan crossed the gap in the town of Wall to find Victoria and tell her he found the star. But also that he has found his true love in her, Evayne, and he’s no longer interested in Victoria. Now, I, I think that it was pretty easy to fix this. I did like that video that I believe Rebecca and I both watched.
They I didn’t see the whole thing, but yeah. Oh, okay. Near the end, they did say this very tired, stupid trope of Oh, a slight misunderstanding in communication leads to a huge plot point. Fortunately, this plot point does last all of, like, four minutes. That brief period of time lessens the stupidity of this cliché, but I did think it was voidable.
[01:18:40] Donna: Yeah. So, while Evayne is dealing with this Realization and trying to gather her thoughts Tristan has made it to Victoria He’s showing her proof of the star he brought which is a lock of hair 
[01:18:58] Rebekah: Hmm 
[01:18:59] Donna: and he realizes because I think she opens up the he gives her the little the little handkerchief Victoria opens it up and it’s just Black stardust.
[01:19:12] Josiah: And she says, why would I want this? And I’m here thinking, that was in space a week ago. Yeah. Hello. That’s cool, Victoria. 
[01:19:22] Tim: Victoria is not the sharpest tack. 
[01:19:26] Donna: In the box. But then Tristan immediately understands that Yvain can’t cross the wall, or she will turn to stone. So he runs full tilt to stop her from doing so.
At the same time, all this stuff’s happening at the same time, it was so invigorating. The captured girl with Dishwater Sal sees Evayne Dish 
[01:19:50] Josiah: Surely they meant for it to sound like Dishwater. Maybe, I guess, 
[01:19:54] Rebekah: yeah, just Ditch Water, not Dishwater. 
[01:19:59] Josiah: I like Dishwater Sal better than Ditch Water. 
[01:20:02] Donna: I’ve always thought it was Dishwater, and I haven’t read it at all.
At the same time The captured girl with Ditchwater’s Sal sees Evayne walking toward the wall, knowing as well that she is in danger, and overtakes the wagon to save Evayne from death, stopping her just before the star crosses the barrier. 
[01:20:24] Josiah: She’s willing to overtake the wagon to save some random stranger, but not herself 
[01:20:32] Donna: out of 
[01:20:34] Josiah: slavery.
[01:20:35] Donna: But remember, she is a magical creature, even though she’s incapable of getting herself out. 
[01:20:42] Rebekah: Listen, she’s in slavery and why would you, 
[01:20:46] Josiah: oh 
[01:20:46] Donna: my gosh, 
[01:20:47] Josiah: that makes sense, you wouldn’t, 
[01:20:48] Rebekah: why would you, why would you overtake the thing when you know you can’t un enslave yourself, but she’s willing to sacrifice what she knows the witch will do to her later when she gets mad.
She’s willing to sacrifice herself for the good of someone else that she recognizes is in trouble because she’s a good person. Yeah, exactly. Oh, she’s a good 
[01:21:06] Josiah: person, unlike her entire family. How did she become a good person when she was raised? By such an evil, moralless father. She was kidnapped as a child.
She’s been gone for a long time, yeah. And she was raised by Ditchwater Sal, a great role model. Who gave her better morals. 
[01:21:22] Donna: Some can say she is a gone girl. 
[01:21:26] Josiah: Oh, now I was thinking that. I was thinking that Una was the gone girl. All at once, 
[01:21:33] Donna: Ditchwater Sal and her servant converge with both Evayne and Lamia.
Lamia. Lamia. 
[01:21:44] Josiah: We don’t have to try. All at once. Ditch Water 
[01:21:48] Rebekah: Sal. I’m about to actually pee myself. And her servant converge with both Yvaine and Lamia. 
[01:22:02] Donna: Lamia. Dad’s gonna kill us all! She’s barreling toward the star’s location before she can destroy the heart of the witch so 
[01:22:18] Tim: desires. What? Destroy the heart the witch so desires.
[01:22:24] Donna: I have to be able to read. Okay. All at once, Ditchwater Sal and her servant converge with both Evayne and Lamia Who is also barreling toward the star’s location before she can destroy the heart the witch so desires. Flammia kills Sal after taunting her about being unable to see the star. And captures the star and the servant girl, now free of her original chain, but bound to Evayne at the wrist.
So, 
[01:23:01] Tim: both Tristan and Septimus at different times come across the aftermath of this battle and follow the trail back to the witch’s lair on horseback. Upon arriving, Septimus attempts to attack the first person he sees and discovers that it is actually his long lost sister, Una. Oh, 
[01:23:22] Rebekah: it was the famous person all along.
[01:23:24] Tim: The men put up a good fight, ultimately killing both of Lamia’s sisters, but Septimus meets his end as he is voodoo dolled by Lamia and drown in a fountain. The witch then uses his body to fight Tristan until the boy smashes him under a chandelier. 
[01:23:44] Rebekah: Tristan frees Evayne and holds off Lamia for a while, but ultimately Evayne asks him to hug her so that she can do what stars do.
Shine. She shines so brightly that Lamia explodes. It’s magic, freeing the young lovers for good. In the post battle moments, Tristan picks up the gem that fell from the star’s neck, but before he hands it to her, he sees that the ruby color returns to it. His mother, who we now know, as said, is the final daughter of the last king of Stormhold, tells him that it means he is now the heir to the throne as the last remaining male who turned Gem back to Ruby.
The ghosts of Una’s brothers are all able to go on and leave their ghost forms now that Stormhold will have another king. 
[01:24:40] Josiah: Wow, we’re just barreling through a lot of things. I 
[01:24:44] Donna: mean, it does, it does fly through here at the end. 
[01:24:47] Josiah: The film does end with a few scenes showing Tristan and Yvain ruling over Stormhold.
Oh gosh, the route is just random, just randomly turning red for no reason. Only the worthy one. They didn’t say that. He 
[01:25:05] Tim: did. Who said that? Somebody said that earlier that you had to be worthy for it to turn back. The king said that. For it to turn back to red. 
[01:25:15] Donna: You blinked, that was the second blink. Then 
[01:25:17] Tim: why are the brothers killing each other?
Well, because if they’re the only one left, they have to be the worthy one. If there’s only one of them left. The film 
[01:25:23] Josiah: ends. The film ends. Finally. With a few scenes showing Tristan and Yvaine ruling over Stormhold. They do. We get to see the king being crowned in front of a massive crowd, including everyone’s favorite pirates.
The formerly goat boy, girl, man, goat man, Bernard. Barnard. 
[01:25:44] Rebekah: Bah. Oh. 
[01:25:46] Josiah: Victoria and her husband, Henry Cavill, who. Shares a wink with Captain Shakespeare. I just 
[01:25:53] Donna: threw up in my mouth. 
[01:25:55] Josiah: Further solidifying the torture that these filmmakers are putting Victoria through. For just being immature. She’s not even mean.
She’s just, she’s just not grown up. Yeah, she’s just like she has the mind of a teenager. It’s not like she has the mind of a bully. Anyway, in the background. Una and Dunstan are reunited. Oh, I did smile at that. 
[01:26:21] Rebekah: I preferred, I liked that. 
[01:26:23] Josiah: I smiled at that in the movie. Una, the enslaved woman. And Dunstan, Tristan’s dad, are reunited because the first scene of the movie, which honestly I would cut.
I would cut the Septimus, the king of Stormhold plotline, and therefore the prologue sequence. Um, this was one of the only, this might have been the only piece of that entire subplot that I liked. Uh, finally the narrator. Gandalf closes the story.
[01:26:59] Tim: I think it was Magneto. 
[01:27:00] Josiah: In the mouth, brazen. Not even pretending like they’re not copying Lord of the Rings. Finally, Ian McKellen closes the story as the narrator by saying that men are not immortal. Well, except those who have the heart of a star. 
[01:27:24] Rebekah: Oh, it is actually Ian McKellen. It is a sad doll. Oh, she 
[01:27:30] Donna: hasn’t watched Lord of the Rings.
[01:27:32] Rebekah: I have. You have forced me. I 
[01:27:36] Josiah: have. Well, after Tristan and Yvain ruled the land for 80 years and their children and grandchildren had gone? 
[01:27:47] Rebekah: That’s kind of how the movie says it. Begun their life. 
[01:27:49] Josiah: Gone away on their life. Like essentially 
[01:27:51] Rebekah: grown up and left or whatever. Who’s 
[01:27:53] Josiah: going to be the 
[01:27:53] Rebekah: next king? Who freaking knows?
It’s not narratively consistent. 
[01:27:59] Josiah: After their children and grandchildren had quote unquote gone. They used the Babylon candle that Una gave them as a cor This upset me. The fact that as a coronation gift, before he opened it, they gave him a gift on his throne, just being crowned. And They are given a gift and I’m like, are they supposed to open this in front of everyone?
This seems inappropriate. They’re like, these people have other things to do. And 
[01:28:32] Tim: it’s private to the star. Oona gave it to the star and she showed it to Tristan. 
[01:28:38] Josiah: Yeah, they just go to the sky. They’re both stars. They live for eternity. 
[01:28:43] Rebekah: All right, so skirt right back to the market outside the wall. Let’s talk about what happened in the book when the star and Tristan arrive.
[01:28:55] Donna: Well, shortly before the caravan gets to the market again, Septimus encounters the witch queen once more disguised as an old woman who questions passing travelers. As he is bound to avenge his brother’s death by killing her, he attempts to find a way around it, but realizes she will not be easily poisoned or otherwise dispatched.
Ultimately, the Witch Queen kills Septimus, using a snake to bite and poison his ankle when he wasn’t paying attention. It is then that the Ghost Brothers all depart. 
[01:29:31] Josiah: Could they call him Septimus Snake? Ha ha 
[01:29:35] Rebekah: ha ha ha. Okay. Tristan. leaves the star in a nearby meadow after being rebuffed by the guards who saw him upon his first arrival back at the wall.
The second time he gets there, he is allowed to pass through. About 13 weeks have passed since he left. And that is kind of up for grabs in terms of book timeline. Um, it’s not super, super clear, but that is 
[01:30:00] Tim: best estimates. Talking to him. 
[01:30:04] Rebekah: It says in the book that he left in the summer and he arrives when it’s nearly winter.
So like, that’s part of how they put that timeline together. He visits Victoria who is willing, although not thrilled, at the prospect of marrying him after all. However, Tristan realizes that This isn’t what he wants and so he frees Victoria from her promise pointing out that in the book her promise was to give him whatever he asked or whatever he wished or whatever if he brought her back the star.
So he’s able to free her from her promise and he realizes he wants to go back and be with Evayne. This is actually the point at which you are really in the book realizing, oh Tristan and Evayne are in love. So it happens earlier in the film film and has longer to develop. It’s very close to the end of the book.
Uh, after returning to Evane, Tristan learns that she also briefly saw Victoria, uh, the girl I believe crossed the wall over to the fairy side. Evane. Because Magic noticed that Victoria was pregnant, assumedly with Robert Munday’s child who she was in love with and excited to be with. And, uh, Evayne tells Tristan that Victoria probably doesn’t even know she’s pregnant because it’s only been a couple weeks or something.
I don’t Two moons, yes. 
[01:31:23] Tim: While Tristan was in Wall, the Witch Queen visited the star in her meadow. However, upon learning that the star had given her heart away, she left, saddened that she couldn’t get the youth granting thing, but hopeful for a future in which the man would break the star’s heart, as men always do.
The Witch Queen said she would return to her sisters, and does not appear again in the story. Much less 
[01:31:51] Rebekah: action, but I thought, 
[01:31:53] Donna: interesting. Upon learning of the wedding plans between Victoria and Mr. Monday, Una realizes that her thinning chain will finally disappear for good. She has finally reached the day when the moon has lost her daughter on a week when two Mondays come together.
After being freed from Ditchwater South slash Simile. Una tells Tristan and Evayne who she really is, and who he really is. 
[01:32:24] Josiah: This is, this is all in, in the last chapter, very one after another. Una bids Tristan, her son, to come to Stormhold so that he may rule as the last remaining male heir. However, Tristan and Yvain tell Una that they will return at an unspecified later date, because they wish to travel and adventure together now that they’re free from other obligations.
Una is to rule in his stead until that time. It takes eight years for the two to finally return and rule. Oh, I’m sure Una loved that. 
[01:32:56] Rebekah: It said she was very annoyed with it, for a lot of it. But 
[01:32:59] Josiah: she was a good ruler. Oh, I’m so glad that Tristan came and ended that good ruler’s reign. Tristan did so, and was a good king!
Oh, and as all mortals do, succumbed to death in his old age. Yvain took the throne from there and rules to this day, a far better monarch than even Tristan was. Man, man, that is some, that is some did not, I did 
[01:33:25] Tim: not like the, the massive amount of time in the epilogue. Really? That was, yeah, it was just crazy.
It took eight years for them to get there to be rulers, you know. I liked the way that the film concluded that, although I didn’t like all of the ways that it did, I liked that last little bit with the, uh, with the voiceover from the narrator. I liked that they ruled for 80 years and their children and grandchildren grew and then they went to be a star together.
[01:33:56] Josiah: I do like that he gets eternal life because he has the heart of the star because she gave her heart to him. That is true. I think that’s a very good, ironic. of the witch’s phrase that’s also hopeful to say, Oh, you can still get eternal life through love instead of violent. 
[01:34:16] Rebekah: It’s interesting. I like the way both of them end and I like that they were different.
Um, because the, the film felt like a satisfying film ending. It was a very pretty bow, which everyone knows I love. Um, but the book felt interestingly, I felt like the book set Books ending felt narratively consistent with the, the kind of strange and unexplained way that everything worked. 
[01:34:43] Donna: So let me run over some basic information about this book and movie.
So, um, DC Comics. Published a prestige format for issue comic miniseries of Stardust in 1997. Um, but just out of curiosity, do you know what a prestige format comic is? No, it’s not a big deal. It’s comics that are made with heavier stock. Yeah. Heavier stock. That’s a big deal. Better, more fancier coloration.
And usually the comic is a little longer than normal. No, The publisher encouraged Gaiman to adapt it to a conventional novel, which was re released in 1999, without illustrations. 
[01:35:30] Rebekah: What I saw was that the original was referred to by a lot of people as a graphic novel, but it’s better described as a heavily illustrated novella.
Um, and Charles Vess was the illustrator. Used. Cool. For those. 
[01:35:45] Donna: The, the movie release, um, was in July of 2007, July 29th. It premiered in LA and then the U. S. premiere was, Uh, August 10th, 2007 and then after that it premiered over UK and in the rest of the world. Uh, book rating was 4. 10 out of five. The movie rating in Rotten Tomatoes, 77 percent fresh, which I thought was interesting.
Uh, the IMDB rating 7. 6 out of 10. 
[01:36:19] Tim: It was a feel good movie. I mean, it made a lot of jerks from one place to the other, but it was still kind of a feel good movie. Generally. 
[01:36:27] Donna: Yeah. Um, then Flickster, the audience score gave it 86. So it, it, the ratings it got were good. Again, who’s, who, if you really didn’t like it, did you hate it enough to go and put a bad rating out there or did you just not like it?
It’s probably, that’s what I think’s probably happened, but the people that thought it was fun and kitschy and whatever, uh, went out and rated. I think part 
[01:36:51] Josiah: of the reason I hate it is because it’s almost 20 years later and it’s like, really, that’s what we were making 20 years ago? Yeah. 
[01:36:59] Donna: Production cost was 70 million to 88.
5 million. Opening weekend, it pulled in 9. 2 million. 
[01:37:06] Tim: Can I just say in that, in that spot, knowing that you had put somewhere between 70 million and 88. 5 million into a movie that opens to less than 10 million, How disappointing that must have been. He said they advertised it like it was going to be another Lord of the Rings type thing, and he said really it was like Princess, the Princess Bride, which was a completely different animal.
I’m surprised. 
[01:37:34] Donna: The USA Canada gross was 39 million. Internationally 99. A lot of British. I mean, I, I could see it did well, I did see it did, did well in, in Britain. Uh, so the total, total take for the movie was 137 and a half million. Uh, it was rated PG 13. Now this is the part that gets me. Here’s where they went to film and everywhere they go to film, they have to take, uh, all their tools, all their supplies, all their pieces and parts.
And go. And so it seems like this would suck up a lot of their budget. Plus, there were a lot of stars in this movie. They filmed in principle, most of the photography was done at Pinewood Studios in London, but they went to Wester Ross in Scottish Highlands, the Isle of Skye, they went to Iceland, Golden Valley near little Gadsden, Hertfordshire, Buckinghamshire, it’s Hertfordshire, Buckinghamshire is the place, which I think I love.
Uh, Castle Combe, Wiltshire, Bichester Airfield in Oxfordshire, Elmill in Norwich, Brecon Beacons National Park in Wales. Is that not a lot of money spent in location? 
[01:38:56] Tim: Yeah, instead of doing it on set. And you said that they went to Iceland. I don’t remember seeing anything that looked like Iceland. 
[01:39:02] Donna: They said part of the issue that they couldn’t do more filming in Iceland was the terrain, which is interesting.
They couldn’t, they couldn’t get their stuff there. It was hard to get to where they wanted to film, hard to transport stuff up. Anyway, I just, I found that fascinating between the actors in the movie. Then the, all the places they were and, and just a lot of that stuff and, and cost the costuming. That wouldn’t be cheap.
I just thought that was interesting. Mm-Hmm. anyway, period stuff. 
[01:39:31] Rebekah: The film won the Hugo Award for best dramatic presentation, long form in 2008. Um, and I think because of the cast, it’s kind of become a cult classic. It is, it’s, it is like a consistent good performer. On streaming services, well, yeah, and it made 26 million in DVD sales before that stopped being a big thing.
The 
[01:39:54] Tim: director said that it was popular. It didn’t get popular. Very popular in theaters, but it became an evergreen title on DVD, which means you could always get it. Lesson in cleaning obsidian knives, if you ever purchase one, they cannot be sharpened with a whetstone. In the book, obsidian knives are sharpened with a whetstone.
Gaiman noticed this while recording the audiobook, but he didn’t correct it. He said he would correct it in a later episode, or a later, um, edition. He started to correct it on the fly, but thought, no, I won’t do that. But we see the witch sharpening them with a whetstone in the film carrying out this terrible inaccuracy that Gaiman realized when he read the audiobook.
He read for the audiobook. And I 
[01:40:41] Josiah: think he was reading the audiobook, maybe I’m wrong about this, but I think he was reading the audiobook years after the movie. Oh yeah. So it was many years after the book came out. Yes, yes. Got it. But it wasn’t on audiobook to start with. So he didn’t want to change it that much 
[01:40:52] Rebekah: later.
Gotcha. The obsidian knife actually was designed for Magneto, the nair reader. That’s why he went ahead and 
[01:41:01] Tim: read that last little bit. Of 
[01:41:02] Rebekah: course. He was going to use it in X Men The Last Stand, but he didn’t, he didn’t, he didn’t use it. It was supposed to be used next in the last stand, but it wasn’t used.
So then it was used on the set of Stardust. And I guess Magneto, I mean, whatever his name is, Ian McKellen, Sir Ian McKellen shows up and then they were like, Hey, do you want to read a couple of lines? We’ll give you like a couple million bucks. Would that be cool? Can you do this? Yeah. And he was like, yeah, bro, let’s totally off 
[01:41:30] Donna: camera.
You can wear your cool scarves and your tennis shoes. You got it all together. And a pair of 
[01:41:34] Rebekah: sweatpants. Uh, 
[01:41:37] Donna: when cast as 
[01:41:38] Rebekah: Tristan, we just made all that up just to clear up, we’re not trying to spread misinformation. Okay, go ahead. 
[01:41:42] Donna: When cast as Tristan, Cox was relatively unknown. Vaughn also wanted someone who could easily transition from a dork to a suave, handsome gentleman.
Which I don’t know if I’d take it as a compliment or not if I were Charlie Cox, but 
[01:41:58] Tim: I noticed that when he was, when he was the boy, when, um, oh, what’s, what’s the name of Henry Cavill’s character? Um, Humphrey. When Humphrey knocked him down or he got, tripped him or whatever there, there toward the beginning.
Outside of Victoria’s home. I noticed that as he, as he laid down on the ground, that he had a lot of razor burn, um, like red bumps on his very dark, dark razor cut face. I mean, you see when somebody has a really dark beard. They get the five o’clock shadow at 10 in the morning kind of thing, you know, it just grows so fast and you can see it, but he had a lot of razor burn, and I was thinking they wanted him to look like he was really young, like a teenager, and so they probably went a little overboard trying to shave the beard.
Well, 
[01:42:50] Donna: Charlie Cox was 25. 
[01:42:52] Josiah: Well, Vanity Fair, completely unbiased. Yes. has noted that the film is frequently played in syndication, calling it Endlessly likable, with a great cast, special effects that aren’t too dated, only that I remember the first scene, and this movie was made after many of the Harry Potters, after Lord of the Rings, and that first scene where Dunstan is going around the fairy fair, whatever you want to call it, the market, there is some truly horrendous CGI, do you remember?
[01:43:33] Rebekah: I didn’t notice. 
[01:43:34] Josiah: Oh, it was horrendous. I didn’t know what kind of movie I was in for. And so I was just, I was enjoying the little details at the beginning before I knew what the movie was. So 
[01:43:44] Donna: Vanity Fair is, um, you’re saying they’re not necessarily a great movie critique. 
[01:43:49] Josiah: I understand when publications like to be friendly with the movie studios that probably are funded by the same people.
It’s evil and horrible, but I understand it. The Vanity Fair also said that Stardust is quote, The best adaptation of Gaiman’s work. Capturing his unique blend of darkness and whimsy perfectly. I, I probably agree with all of that. I don’t know about perfectly. But, uh, it, it might be the best adaptation of Gaiman’s work.
I assume I wouldn’t like any of it. 
[01:44:24] Rebekah: That’s so 
[01:44:24] Josiah: good to know. I was so disappointed because I hated the movie so thoroughly that when the credits started rolling, Matthew Vaughn came up as the director. I don’t know. And I like Matthew Vaughn’s, uh, Kingsman movie. I thought it was an exceptional direction that he did.
And I do think that the movie was poorly directed. It was also poorly written. But I do think he did not do a good job at the direction of it. I read a couple of things 
[01:44:51] Donna: about the fact that he was fine with one part of it, like either the fantasy Or, the more comedy, more modern comedy part. But, putting the two together, he did, there was a lot of deliberation there in trying to figure out how to make it.
So, it worked. 
[01:45:09] Josiah: Rebecca, as someone who didn’t hate the film, do you remember Kingsman? 
[01:45:13] Rebekah: I love Kingsman, it’s one of my favorite movies. 
[01:45:15] Josiah: Do you like Kingsman or Stardust better? 
[01:45:18] Tim: Kingsman. Well, the director’s only choice for the Witch Queen was Pfeiffer. He was a die hard fan after seeing her in Grease 2.
Really? 
[01:45:33] Rebekah: I’m like, I like this guy. Sue, he was their whole audience. She was the stock.
That’s all dear Lord. OK, well, speaking of actors, De Niro accepted his role as Shakespeare after regretting turning down another pirate captain role in Pirates of the Caribbean, the Curse of the Black 
[01:45:59] Donna: Pearl. 
[01:46:00] Josiah: I’m so glad he wasn’t in that. 
[01:46:02] Donna: Yeah, 
[01:46:03] Josiah: it’s not British enough. 
[01:46:04] Donna: Oh my. So as we wrap up this fun and we have this little mini game and we won’t take a big, a bunch of time on this, but I thought it would be interesting to see if our, if my podcast would have the answers to some of this, several cast members.
Also have portrayed superhero characters in the films. Can you name which superhero? Okay, so Charlie Cox, who plays 
[01:46:33] Josiah: Daredevil. 
[01:46:34] Donna: Daredevil. Okay, that’s excellent. I like that. 
[01:46:37] Josiah: Okay, good job. I did not know that. 
[01:46:39] Donna: Oh, please. It’s totally amazing. It’s a great Netflix series. I’ll just tell anybody out there that wants to watch something.
daredevil? That’s Charlie Cox. That’s Charlie Cox. That’s Tristan? It’s 
[01:46:51] Tim: graphic. Yeah. For anybody in the audience that hasn’t seen it, it is very graphic. 
[01:46:56] Donna: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. He’s so much 
[01:46:58] Tim: more suave 
[01:46:59] Josiah: there. 
[01:46:59] Donna: Okay, so how about Ben 
[01:47:01] Josiah: Barnes? Ben Barnes. Ian McKellen as Magneto. Yes. 
[01:47:05] Donna: Oh yeah, we don’t have to go in, we don’t have to go in order, I’m sorry.
[01:47:09] Josiah: No, you can call them out, that’s fine. Yeah, 
[01:47:11] Donna: so Ben Barnes. I 
[01:47:13] Josiah: love Ben Barnes. Wait, which character did he 
[01:47:16] Donna: play? 
[01:47:16] Josiah: He was young Dunstan. 
[01:47:19] Donna: Okay. This was one I would never look at a million credibly familiar, but yeah, I don’t know really Russo in the Punisher Oh, I didn’t just watch a little bit of that. I’ve only 
[01:47:30] Tim: seen tiny bit of it Tell me what Mark Strong what what his part was in them in this movie.
[01:47:35] Donna: He was Septimus. 
[01:47:36] Tim: Okay. Okay He was in 
[01:47:38] Josiah: strong worked with Matthew Vaughn was in he was in Kingsman, right? He was yeah 
[01:47:43] Donna: Alright, so then, uh, we, did we say Henry Cavill? You 
[01:47:47] Tim: did not. Superman! He was in the 
[01:47:50] Donna: DC Extended Universe. And then the last one is Jason Lemming. play in 
[01:47:56] Tim: the movie? I don’t even know. What did he play in this film?
Remus. 
[01:48:00] Donna: Alright, so this one is going to be, I didn’t know these either, uh, Fleming played, uh, he was in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, he was Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, and he was in X Men First Class. He was Azazel. A Z A Z E L. So, I’m not, for whatever reason, those don’t ring a bell for me. But I did, there were so many of them that played superheroes, I was like, oh, I thought that’d be, that’s kind of cool.
[01:48:29] Rebekah: Okay, I will give my final verdict first because I think that I’m different, mostly from you guys. Um, I saw this movie when I was just a newlywed, and so Josh and I loved to go see, I mean, we still love to go see movies together. Um, but I believe we saw the theaters when it first came out. Um Um, I’d never read the book until this week.
And so, you know, it was a highly voted one in our discord in comparison to a lot of the others. So I’m interested to see how many of our listeners have listened as well. Uh, my verdict is, I think that if I’m comparing them to each other, I would say I liked the book and film equally well because I did not love the way that the film went in the end.
I liked a lot of the changes they made at the beginning, but I was still not It’s sad that they cut things like the little hairy man from when he first enters, um, the fairy. And then, I don’t know, some of the other changes later on in the film I didn’t like, but I liked the, I liked the way the book concluded things.
I preferred it. So I, I kind of was like back and forth with that. I thought the vibe came off. I didn’t have a problem with it. Like I thought, let me say it this way. Now that I’ve like listened to you talk about it and kind of like ripped it apart and stuff, this is a movie that I watched and enjoyed because it felt good when I’m not thinking too much about it.
If I start thinking about some of the deeper themes or some of the implications of what was done or said or whatever, I can understand why this movie might now be like hitting you badly, um, or why you might not like it because it’s the first time you’ve seen it or whatever. I think that it was like, if you’re not thinking too much into it, for me, it was an enjoyable movie experience.
It’s definitely not a favorite. Like I’m not, you know, I don’t go back and watch this all the time. Um, I probably won’t read the book again. Um, I might put the movie on again, so I’m not, this wasn’t like a, oh, 10 for me or anything. I would say if I’m rating both of them together equally on a scale of one to 10, this is probably like a five and a half for me, so I didn’t like love it.
It’s not a reread or re watcher, but I also didn’t hate it, and I thought it was entertaining for a brief Like, hey, quick after dinner, go see a movie, watch. 
[01:50:44] Donna: I have a little bit of issue, because I’ve told you before, I listen to audiobooks. I’m not a physical book reader. And so, if I can’t be in a situation where I’m fully focused on that book, I will miss things.
And again, that’s why I reread and re listen to stuff. And so I did have a time, even though it’s a 10 hour re, uh, audio, audio book. I thought it was a six hour. Uh, sorry. It, no, it was 10 chapters. Sorry. It was six hours. Oh, gotcha. Um, I did have to really kind of keep myself on it to, to stay with what was going on.
And as we talk through this tonight, I still missed a lot. And I hate that, but, um, at the same time, seeing it and then watching the movie and kind of trying to put everything together, um, I, I like the book better. I’m, I’m going to say they’re pretty equal because as they started the book and it seemed like it was going to be pretty and, and I, I had like a pretty flowy kind of fairy land in my head of what this would be.
And then all of a sudden he’s at the market. And they’re describing this sex scene that really was off putting to, it was kind of, it was just off putting to me weird. And so I had to kind of get past that, listen to the rest of it. I’m not sorry I listened to it. Like Rebecca said, I probably won’t read the book again.
Um, I might go back at some point and watch the movie and try to kind of piece a few more things together as we talked, uh, since we’ve talked about it tonight. But I’m gonna give the film a slight edge over the book. Yeah, I mean, I think, I think that that’s where I’ll land with it. 
[01:52:34] Josiah: This is a toffee for me.
It’s gonna be up in the air. I think I’m around where Rebecca is with movie book. There’s just good and bad things about both of them. I think that the book is more tonally consistent, which is a huge thing, I think, when telling a story is that you establish a tone and you stick to it. The film, I did not like the tone, where the book, I didn’t really like how Neil Gaiman tells stories, but like the randomness of the magic felt like it was there throughout the entire book.
This chapter, this random thing happens, and it kind of establishes that early on so that every chapter some random magic happens. Like, oh, okay, this is, okay, I was, it’s almost like I’m expecting some random magic to happen. Magical 
[01:53:23] Rebekah: inconsistency bugged me a lot, I would say, about this book. That’s probably one reason I won’t reread it.
[01:53:28] Josiah: And so I think the magic is more annoying to me in the movie. I think that the story might be slightly better in the movie. So like, the book gets it on tone, and the movie gets it on story. But the movie also gets it on cast. I really, really like Ben Barnes at the beginning. Charlie Cox, I don’t like. And he is the main character, so that’s a big negative.
I don’t like that Ian McKellen’s the narrator, but I love Claire Danes, the star. I thought Robert De Niro was like on and off fun. Uh, Ricky Gervais made me laugh, even though he didn’t fit in the movie. Michelle Pfeiffer was good. I, I would have cut the entire Stormhold plot. So that it’s not a plot. Why, why does it need to end with Trista becoming king?
Just end it with him being in love with the star. Couldn’t you have just had it be a race against Lamia? So, I don’t fully understand why Neil Gaiman did that. I don’t see the point. I don’t see thematically, tonally, I don’t see plot wise. Cause in the book and movie both, it’s just like, and Lamia ends Septimus.
Okay, and now it’s to the real plot. Okay. Okay. So, I just, uh, I, I can’t say that one is really better than the other, but the, the movie’s more enjoyable. I think it’s funnier. How bad it is, is funny. So let’s say the movie is better, cause it’s funnier to watch for me. 
[01:55:00] Tim: Well, for me, um, I had positives and negatives of both of them.
I, I thought watching the movie was, was kind of fun. I would probably give it a six or so. It was herky jerky at times, you know, I felt like it. Jumped around a lot. I appreciated the fact that I had gotten to a certain point in the book and then we, we watched the movie before I finished the book, um, and I liked that.
I tried to do what TJ has said before, if he watches the movie first, then the book is really just addition, you know, filling out the story and I thought I would listen to it that way uh, after I’d watched it and I was better with that. I, I liked the way that the, that the book began, although I didn’t like some of the, the PG 13 or more, uh, stuff right at the beginning.
I liked the way the, the book handled the fair and, um, the different things and some of the characters that it added, but I liked the way, I liked the way that the film ended as opposed to the way the book ended. And I get why there’s the storm hold thing, but it really does seem at times like, okay, how many villains are we going to have?
And then eventually they kill one another off. And in one version, the witch queen just kind of gives up, uh, and in the other she’s killed. It’s just, it’s a little strange. So if I was giving it a grade, I would probably. Give them each a six for different reasons. Kind of like, kind of like TJ, but I actually, I actually enjoyed it.
It was, it was fun to read and it was fun to watch. Um, especially after, um, after some of the things we’ve done, I, I have, I don’t care. I read for entertainment. I don’t like to read things that are dark and that gets tough. And so some of the things we’ve done, I’ve had to read in the daytime and not read before bed and stuff like that.
But. Um, it’s just, this was, this was more fun for me. I wouldn’t call it, you know, it’s certainly not the Lord of the Rings. It’s not even the Hobbit. Um, it was okay. 
[01:57:22] Rebekah: Well, fam, I think that’s the end of this one. If you enjoyed listening along with us, uh, please. I did have a lot of fun. I laughed so much. I’m like a little horse over it.
[01:57:35] Josiah: I 
[01:57:36] Rebekah: read a new book and watched 
[01:57:37] Josiah: a new movie with my family. It was 
[01:57:39] Rebekah: very fun. Sorry. Dad’s still a goat. Uh, so, if you enjoyed it, please leave us a five star rating or review. It is incredibly helpful for those Um, especially Audible and Apple. If you have the time to leave a full written review, those are like a really big deal for us.
They help get the show out to more people. Um, you can also support us on our Patreon, which at this point has been out for a little while. Uh, check out our new website. If you want to get in contact with us, you can do it. It’s live. Um, if you want to contact us, you can email us bookisbetterpod at gmail.
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Go do it! Uh, yeah! And, uh, until next time. M m m magic, magic, magic. 
[01:58:39] Rebekah: Magic, magic, magic. 
[01:58:43] Josiah: I’m a billy goat. Uh, bye! It’s a falling 
[01:58:48] Rebekah: star. We’ll see you all later. 
[01:58:56] Donna: Tim is enjoying my name too much and he can’t stop singing in goat voice and so I’m just saying That’s my 
[01:59:04] Tim: dwarf voice. 
[01:59:06] Rebekah: Sing the song in the dwarf voice.
You do it. You try it now. Let’s hear it. 
[01:59:10] Tim: Catch a falling star and chain it up with magic. Never let it go away. 
[01:59:17] Donna: Does that not sound 
[01:59:18] Tim: like 
[01:59:19] Rebekah: the 
[01:59:19] Donna: goat fish?