S04E04 — The Dog Stars

SPOILER ALERT: This episode and transcript below contains major spoilers for TEMPLATE.

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Featuring hosts Timothy Haynes, Donna Haynes, Rebekah Edwards, and T. Josiah Haynes.

Baby listeners, this week we’re comparing Peter Heller’s The Dog Stars with Ridley Scott’s film adaptation, and somehow a story about the end of civilization left us mostly fighting for our lives against the pacing. We’re talking Jacob Elordi’s one-note grief, Josh Brolin being way too lovable to be Bangley, why Jasper is the actual star of this entire thing, and the exact moment Grand Junction turns into Alien with cannibals.

Plus, Rebekah declares war on quotation-mark-free prose, Tim listens to an audiobook at unprecedented speeds, and we ask the most important question of the apocalypse: Why are you walking onto a stranger’s property WITH A GUN?

Final Verdicts

If you haven’t listened to the episode yet, we recommend waiting to read our verdicts. (But you’re probably grown, so do what you want!)

The book gives us a quiet, weirdly punctuated post-apocalypse about grief, fly-fishing, survival, and one man spending an alarming amount of time inside his own head. The movie keeps the grief, adds considerably more shooting, turns Grand Junction into a cannibal cult fever dream, and lets Josh Brolin wander around in his tighty grays.

Donna: The film was better.
– Book Score: 3/10
– Film Score: 5.5/10

Rebekah: The film was better.
– Book Score: 3.5/10
– Film Score: 6.5/10

Josiah: The film was better.
– Book Score: 4/10
– Film Score 5.5/10

Tim: The book was better.
– Book Score: 6/10
– Film Score 7/10

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Full Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Rebekah: Just do, we should just do the ABCs but to the Hozier lyrics, which is, um, let’s see. Hold on. Take me 

[00:00:07] Josiah: to 

[00:00:08] Donna: church. We kiss like real people 

[00:00:09] Rebekah: do. No, hold on. Here we go. Honey, just put your sweet lips on my lips. We should just kiss like real people do. 

[00:00:19] Tim: I am 

[00:00:20] Rebekah: Hozier- Is that good? Is that an intro? I am- Am I a podcast?

[00:00:23] so 

[00:00:24] Tim: wonderfully amazed.

[00:00:41] Rebekah: Is Better podcast. Guys, today our family of four who does a clean podcast reviewing book to film adaptations, we’re gonna talk about The Dog Stars. So first of all, spoiler alert, you’re gonna find out everything that happens in The Dog Stars- Mm-hmm … both the book and film, which have- It’ll take 

[00:00:58] Josiah: 60 

[00:00:58] Rebekah: seconds

[00:00:58] some very significant differences. Uh, it … Um, also content warning, if you’re gonna read this book, why? If you’re gonna watch the movie, you know, maybe I understand your thought process there. No, the book, uh, does have some, uh, spicy scenes, so, um, I probably wouldn’t listen to it around your kids, although they’ll fall asleep during the rest of it, so it’s fine.

[00:01:27] Um, also, you will find out, spoiler alert for our feelings, some of us have some very strong feelings about this. And you know what? If some or one of us has positive feelings, that’s the benefit of having a group of people on a podcast. Right. I’m just saying, it’s the benefit of not just having one person tell you what they think- Yeah

[00:01:46] because you get actual different opinions. Yeah. So, uh, before we get into The Dog Stars, which is, by the way, a post-apocalyptic thing, um, about, like, surviving after the end of the world. Mm-hmm. Which was the reason I picked it, ’cause I thought, “That sounds really action-packed.” Um- Yeah … our fun fact related to this is what survival skill would you be most suited to master?

[00:02:12] Donna: Yeah, I mean, I don’t know, but w- as far as a specific skill

[00:02:21] I mean, I could try to keep everybody happy and cheery with an optimistic attitude. 

[00:02:28] Rebekah: Is that 

[00:02:28] Donna: a 

[00:02:28] Rebekah: skill? Is that a survival skill? 

[00:02:30] Donna: Well- 

[00:02:31] Rebekah: Okay, so you m- you mentioned Helene, which kinda leads into an answer for me, but I don’t know if it’s any more helpful- … because when Helene happened, I went and started volunteering full time at my church- Mm-hmm

[00:02:42] coordinating- Yeah … like, response teams, and so apparently my best survival skill is middle management. And I don’t know if that applies in this type of post-apocalyptic world. So- You’d, you’d work 

[00:02:56] Josiah: well at the movie’s Grand Junction 

[00:02:59] Rebekah: I would … 

[00:03:00] Josiah: making sure there’s enough- I guess … heads in the freezer to feed all of your- Correct

[00:03:06] creeps. 

[00:03:08] Rebekah: Yes. That is probably true. I think 

[00:03:10] Josiah: is what happened. Yeah. 

[00:03:11] Rebekah: So I, I would find my way. 

[00:03:12] Josiah: And Mom- 

[00:03:12] Rebekah: I would find a 

[00:03:13] Donna: way somewhere. So half of us have answered now, and I’m not feeling massively encouraged by our chances to survive anything. So, um- So Rebe- Rebecca … Josiah and Dad, it’s up to you. 

[00:03:27] Josiah: Well- 

[00:03:28] Rebekah: The men have it

[00:03:30] Donna: to bring it in. 

[00:03:30] Josiah: Well, Rebecca’s a bureaucrat and Mom is gonna be a minstrel. Uh. 

[00:03:37] Tim: Two very important parts of survival. 

[00:03:42] Josiah: I think that it would be fun for me to, um, set up a perimeter of traps, to plan out, like- Mm-hmm … how would, how would people come near our property? And then, you know, how to- Mm-hmm … how to make it so that, oh, there’s, over here it will make a sound.

[00:04:02] Oh, a bunch of glass will shatter as a trap- Mm … to wake us up. Oh, over here a bunch of spikes will come up and- Yeah … and get ’em in the, get ’em in the face. Oh, this one is actually a pit. So you’re Gale 

[00:04:14] Rebekah: and Peeta from The Hunger Games. 

[00:04:16] Josiah: Yes. I, I- But- … I’m, in video, in fighting video games, I always prefer the faraway characters with projectiles.

[00:04:25] Mm-hmm. Um, and I feel like traps is what I would be attracted to. 

[00:04:29] Rebekah: Okay. So Dad, what is your survival skill? 

[00:04:32] Tim: Um, actually, I’m, I do have a few survival skills. Mm-hmm. Yes. I, I can survive out in the wild- Thank God … a little bit. Um, I know how, I know how to purify water, just to get water that’s… And run it through a process that’ll actually purify it.

[00:04:50] Um, those kinds of things. I also know how to make shelters out of, you know, whatever you find. Uh, those kinds of things. 

[00:04:57] Donna: Yeah. 

[00:04:57] Tim: So those, those would be the beginning parts. And then of course, I do, I do know how to plant things and, um, I know some things you can’t eat, so that’s a good survival skill. Don’t eat those red berries.

[00:05:11] Love it. They would be deadly. 

[00:05:12] Donna: Hig, a former Denverite who lost his wife and unborn child to the flu that wiped out the world, shares a small airport complex in Eerie, Colorado after the end of the world with Bangley, a gruff survivalist. I liked Bangley, by the way. When Hig loses his dog Jasper- Aw … his depression sends him searching for anything to fill the void.

[00:05:39] He comes upon a family of two, Pops- Oof … an old man with a tactical background, and Seema, his doctor daughter, who also lost her spouse to the flu. Pops and Seema leave their farm, uh, their family farm with Hig, seeking refuge in the nearby Grand Junction, an airport in Western Colorado’s largest town. All they find there are more people trying to do them harm.

[00:06:05] Finally, they return to Erie to a wounded Bangley, severely injured from a sudden assault. The four make a sort of life together in the end, supporting the small Mennonite community nearby as they protect this new kind of family. 

[00:06:21] Rebekah: What did we like, though? Sorry. 

[00:06:25] Tim: No, you go 

[00:06:25] Rebekah: ahead. So what, what did we like about the adaptation that they did not change?

[00:06:30] And I think we should let Dad go first, ’cause I think that he probably has more good to say than us, the rest of us. And so I wanna let someone actually be positive. Than the rest of you? The rest of us. Listen, if someone turned on this episode because they’re like, “I really like that book. I wonder- Yeah

[00:06:43] what they did.” I

[00:06:50] Tim: don’t want them to feel- They need to be educated. Here are, here are, here are some things that, that I liked about it that were the same. Mm-hmm. That’s, that’s what we’re looking at first. Um, it is about a, a, an apocalypse that is, um, kind of explained a little bit- Mm … but it’s, it’s not so much about the, uh, the reason for the apocalypse as it is the people that are surviving.

[00:07:14] Um, the general story, I like. I like that it’s the generally the same. Mm-hmm. Uh, these, this group of people that, a disparate group of people learns to, uh, survive together, and people that have lost a lot find some of that to fulfill those needs that they have. 

[00:07:37] Rebekah: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:37] Tim: Um, I liked the fact that, uh, Hig and his dog were still a large part of it, uh, despite the fact that, um, I, I didn’t care for the way that they, they changed a couple of things with that.

[00:07:52] Um- I’m, I’m okay with it being a, a story about character development and how someone learns to deal with those things. I realized that it wasn’t full of a lot of action, you know, considering that it’s a- Sure … that type of a m- a movie with the, uh, apocalypse and all. But it is the kind of thing that I think about when we watch one of those apocalyptic movies and we see all the action.

[00:08:22] Mm-hmm. I do think about, well, how do you feel and how do your, uh, you know, what feelings are y- you going with now that, you know, you had to kill somebody this first time you had to do that or- Yeah … those kinds of things. And, and so I, I liked the fact that the book and the film both dealt with those kinds of subjects.

[00:08:43] So. And we’ll get into a couple things as we do the, the changes, so. 

[00:08:47] Donna: Yeah. I did think that, um, they kept Bangley pretty… To me, he was pretty spot on as far as his general attitude about life, his thought about, um, “I wanna survive this. I don’t see anybody that comes into our camp as a potential ally. I don’t see it.

[00:09:13] You and I are here. We trust each other. We’ve got each other’s backs. Anybody else is, is fodder for the, for the guns.” Yeah. Uh, you know. And- 

[00:09:22] Tim: Well, because they’re also probably just looking for an advantage to take advantage of you- Yeah, 

[00:09:27] Donna: of course. 

[00:09:27] Tim: Sure … and wipe you out. 

[00:09:28] Donna: What else would you think? And that’s his attitude.

[00:09:29] Right. And, and so I say that because, uh, I, I say that because I also felt like they did a, a… I thought they did a decent job in the film uh, keeping Jacob Elordi very different from Bangley. But they still got a, they still existed together. They still got along together. They still cared for each other, uh, in their own way.

[00:09:56] So I felt like that was something that, that their, their, um, relationship Was, was kept the same, and I was, I was good with that. Okay. So Josiah, did you- Okay … did you have a, a- 

[00:10:11] Josiah: I like that Jasper’s a good boy in both of them. 

[00:10:14] Donna: Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:14] Rebekah: He is a good boy. 

[00:10:16] Donna: I did like the dog, de- Yeah … definitely. I, I was… That worked really well.

[00:10:21] Josiah: Now, I think we might be around the point of saying that Jasper dies. 

[00:10:31] Donna: Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:31] Josiah: And in the movie it’s 25 minutes in, and honestly, Jasper dying is the inciting incident for the plot to happen. 

[00:10:41] Rebekah: Mm-hmm. It is- Where- … also the inciting incident of the book- 

[00:10:44] Josiah: And in the 

[00:10:44] Rebekah: b- … but it doesn’t happen- 

[00:10:45] Josiah: And in the book- 

[00:10:46] Rebekah: Forever

[00:10:46] until 50% through. 

[00:10:47] Josiah: It’s a, it’s a, it’s quite a ways in. It’s at the end of part one. There’s three parts, and part three is quite short. 

[00:10:55] Donna: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:10:57] Rebekah: Yes. 

[00:10:57] Donna: Interesting. 

[00:10:58] Rebekah: All right, so let’s get into it. Let’s talk about differences. We’ll start with our characters, and, uh, I think that it’s important to note here that there are not a lot of people in this film.

[00:11:11] Yeah. The cast is pretty small. In the book- Yeah … it’s even smaller. So, uh, a lot of what’s changed is, like, adding or- 

[00:11:19] Donna: Sure … 

[00:11:20] Rebekah: expanding on people. So 

[00:11:23] Tim: Dan, would you like to get us started there? You have a lot of extras. You have, you have a lot of extras- Yes … but you don’t have a lot of main- Mm-hmm … main named characters.

[00:11:29] Uh, the primary- Yeah … character, and the one from whose perspective this is told primarily, um, is Hig, the unusual name. Uh, in the f- 

[00:11:41] Rebekah: Full name Higgledy Piggledy. 

[00:11:42] Tim: Yeah. Not 

[00:11:43] Rebekah: John. Yes. 

[00:11:43] Tim: Um, in the film he’s a young ex-mechanic turned pilot. Um, uh, the, uh, the actor’s in his late for- uh, late 20s. Uh, he- That’s the guy that 

[00:11:56] Rebekah: played Frankenstein, right?

[00:11:58] Jacob- Frankenstein … 

[00:11:58] Tim: or what is he in? Apparently. That’s The Monster, yes. I, I was told that. I did not notice it. Monster. Sorry. 

[00:12:02] Rebekah: The Monster. Yes, 

[00:12:02] Tim: yes, yes. Um, in the film he liked his job as a mechanic, some construction. In the book he’s somewhere around 40. Uh, he was a contractor. He hated that job. He always wanted to be a, a writer, especially- Mm-hmm

[00:12:15] uh, poetry. He loved fly-fishing. Um, so- Yes. 

[00:12:21] Josiah: Oh, he loved- And 

[00:12:22] Rebekah: that was not a part- 

[00:12:23] Josiah: No … of the film. Oh, he loved fly-fishing in the book. It was, like, a core part of his identity. And I think- Yeah … there was, like, barely a scene in the film. That kind of should’ve been cut from the film. Mm. 

[00:12:34] Tim: Okay. 

[00:12:35] Rebekah: Honestly, it 

[00:12:35] Tim: did 

[00:12:36] Rebekah: slow it down.

[00:12:37] Tim: Here’s something, here’s something that I, that I would say. One of, one of the struggles, and probably I should say this since it’s about the actor in particular- I think his character was flatter than it needed to be. I recognize that in the book he’s, he’s very somber, thoughtful, all those kinds of things, but there are some things that ground him to his reality in the book, in the film, or in the book as opposed to the film.

[00:13:07] I- in the book, his fly-fishing, the fact that he loves it, and, you know, spoiler alert, you know, if you’ve got kids listening, uh, be cautious. But he goes fly-fishing in the nude because he wants to feel the earth beneath his feet. He wants to feel- Yeah … the water. He said he used to wear waders, but now he wants to be grounded.

[00:13:32] Some of those things would have allowed the audience to connect to him, because otherwise in the film, I’m afraid he’s more flat than he is in the book. 

[00:13:47] Rebekah: Y- I will say also, so there was some speculation before the film dropped that it was going to be narrated, like that there would be- Mm-hmm … a narration- Mm

[00:13:55] like over the film, and it was not, fortunately, which Josiah’s happy about, ’cause he hates that in films. Um, so you’re trying to read the grief in Elordi’s portrayal of him and, like, what he sees with Melissa. In the book, you do get more of the internalized grief, like the interiority in the book. You hear more of his dialogue inside his own head.

[00:14:16] But I think that what this did for me, and I don’t know if it was a good thing, maybe, but in, in the book, he seemed like someone who was grappling with grief of, like, losing his wife, losing his unborn child, not knowing what to do at the end of the world. In the film, and I don’t… Again, I don’t know if this is good or bad.

[00:14:35] In the film, he seemed like a guy who is always on the edge of feeling suicidal and isn’t sure what to do with it. Yes. And, like, they make that a more in your face kind of thing, and I don’t know that it felt so much about grief as much as it did about, like, wanting, like, n- figuring out if he wanted to live, if that makes sense.

[00:14:54] Right. Okay. Like, the, it, it’s not the same theme. And so I don’t know if I- Uh- I mean, I don’t know if that part of it worked for me better or worse, but. 

[00:15:01] Tim: I, I think, I think the, some of the things that they did in the book If they had shown us, we would have, we would have felt for him more. Because in the, in the film, I, I don’t think he’s the character that you feel for, because he- Mm-hmm

[00:15:24] he doesn’t have a g- lot of depth. Um, some of those things that, that they left out, I think would have helped ground him in that world and say, “I am, I’m still trying to live. I’m still trying to actually- Yeah … survive, and there are things that, that I do, that I do still enjoy, uh, things that remind me I’m alive,” as opposed to the film that said, you know, “I often dream of just flying the plane into a mountain.”

[00:15:52] Uh, so the other primary character is Bangley. Um, in the film, he’s an ex-Marine, calls outsiders roaches. He bickers with Hig over the Mennonite runs, except he always calls them something else. What does he, um- Mormons. Mormons. Mormons. He calls them, uh, Mormons. He calls them Mormon, and he says, “You know they’re Mennonites, you know that.”

[00:16:14] Yeah, but he keeps- Mm-hmm … calling them Mormons, um, on purpose. In the book, he seems to be a gun-crazy loner. Mm. Uh, his background is kept very vague. Um, his attic stronghold and the homemade grenade launcher and all sorts of things that are like, okay, this guy was a survivalist- Mm-hmm … long before the flu started killing people.

[00:16:38] Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:38] Rebekah: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:39] Tim: Yeah. Um… 

[00:16:39] Rebekah: I do like in the film where Hig was like, “You were ready for this 10 years before the world ended.” Yeah. Like, I thought that was kinda funny. 

[00:16:46] Tim: True. Yeah. 

[00:16:48] Rebekah: I do like, by the way, in their relationship between, um, Bangley and Hig, I actually do like a… In the book, there was a little bit more earlier on in the story- Where Higg, like, realizes the benefit that Bangley had offered his life.

[00:17:06] He’s grateful for him. Yeah. He hears his fake radio voice in his head when he’s trying to figure out what to do when he first meets Seema and Pops. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And he hears, like, Bangley talking him through the logic of it. In the film, it did feel a little bit like, hey, this guy with all the survival skills has literally allowed you, one single person, to invade his space because you could fly a plane.

[00:17:30] Like, it was, you know- And plant beans … it was mutually beneficial. Yeah. But … Right. It’s like because you had a few little, like a few- Mm-hmm … things that helped him, and he has done nothing but act like family to you in the best way that he knows how. And, like, because your dog dies, you just kinda treat him like he’s a worthless person.

[00:17:47] Okay. 

[00:17:47] Josiah: Okay. Like- I didn’t know if you guys were on a similar page, but I thought Bangley in the movie was way too likable. Josh Brolin was way too charismatic. 

[00:17:55] Rebekah: Oh. 

[00:17:56] Josiah: He- Oh. That’s hilarious … he was so nice. Mm. And you think of this, like, gruff survivalist. Mm. And I can immediately see the problems where it’s like I’m so macho that I don’t wanna admit when I’m wrong, and then the end of the movie, he’ll be like, “Okay, okay, I was wrong.

[00:18:11] We can live…” You can see kind of a- Mm … a, a trope-y sort of- Yes … but, but sort of satisfying ending. Um, but first- Mm … of all, he, he was so nice and generous that, uh, he was gruff, sure, but he After, I don’t know how much he was lying, but after conceivably being responsible for Jasper’s death- Mm … Bang- a- and, and Hig is leaving, Bangley goes up to the airplane and ma- and is like, “Hey, I’m…”

[00:18:46] You know, this is at the m- 35-minute mark in the movie, and Bangley says, “Hey, I just wanna know, I just want you to know that I’m a really good communicator, and I think it’s important that we tell each other that we love each other. And I’m sorry if I was responsible or you feel like I’m responsible for Jasper’s death.

[00:19:05] I definitely didn’t mean to do that, and we’re all good now.” 

[00:19:09] Rebekah: Well, first of all, he really wasn’t responsible. It was fully Hig’s fault, 100,000%. 

[00:19:14] Josiah: But, uh- So- But Bangley comes 

[00:19:16] Rebekah: out- Bangley did not need to apologize for it … 

[00:19:17] Josiah: Bangley comes out and is like, “I purposefully made it so that you had to take care of your mess.”

[00:19:24] And if that’s true that he let the reapers get closer, that’s Bangley’s fault a little bit. But I think Bangley- True. Yeah, yeah … is lying and just, like, gri- 

[00:19:36] Rebekah: Trying to make Hig feel better? 

[00:19:36] Josiah: Trying to make him feel bad. Mm-hmm. For, before- Yeah … he sees that Jasper’s dying, for being like, “Oh, I-” Hmm. 

[00:19:42] Rebekah: I gotcha. 

[00:19:42] Josiah: I, I kinda took it as Bangley is supposed to be on watch, and Hig said that they’re good.

[00:19:49] I don’t know. He was such a healthy communicator before- Yeah. … he left, and I was like- … what’s the conflict of this movie? W- what is this movie about? 

[00:19:58] Rebekah: Yeah. 

[00:19:58] Josiah: 35 minutes in, the only thing- Well, ’cause as it turns 

[00:20:00] Rebekah: out- 

[00:20:01] Tim: I think it was, I think they chose to make the conflict of the movie the four people against the other s- uh, the other crazy people, as opposed to the fact that the personal conflicts were between the individuals, even the ones that we- Mm

[00:20:22] care about, um, in- Yeah … that’s where it needed to be. So I, I agree with you. Bangley could’ve been less likable. 

[00:20:30] Josiah: Until 

[00:20:30] Tim: the end. Actually not, not- True … jumping too far, but I think Pops was a lot more l- unlikable- Mm … than, than Bangley was. 

[00:20:41] Josiah: Well, there’s Seema, our female lead character, uh, in the film. The 

[00:20:47] Tim: female?

[00:20:48] Josiah: Yeah. I, you know- Yeah, I’m excited for the only female in the film to be only used as a sexual object for the male main character. So she’s a hopeful country girl from the city. She was a medical resident, so she had her doctorate- Mm-hmm … but she hadn’t finished her training- Mm … as a doctor to get fully licensed.

[00:21:12] Rebekah: It’s horrifying how much we know exactly from those two words- We know, yes … that literally no one… And like, I’ve read things online where people are like, “Oh, yeah, she was a medical student,” and I’m 

[00:21:20] Josiah: like, “That’s not what that means.” That’s not exactly right, nope. Um. Her husband di- also died of this, of the flu, which is, uh, it’s mentioned briefly.

[00:21:29] Uh, but in the book she’s a fully licensed doctor and a, and a, an epidemiologist. Uh, still a widow, but she gives a lot- Mm-hmm … more details on her late husband, how she got into Dartmouth, became a doctor. She’s taller than Hig in the book. Uh, she’ll- 

[00:21:44] Rebekah: Which is so weird. He’s… She’s described as, like… She’s not described as pretty.

[00:21:50] I’m just saying. Yeah. Like, he, he uses- They don’t say she’s ugly … the word a- to describe… He describes her- Yeah … as handsome and then talks about how she’s taller than him and, like, very lanky, and I’m like, I don’t… Is this supposed to be- … like, an attractive woman? Or… 

[00:22:04] Josiah: In the book she also describes from a doctor’s point of view how the illness started and spread nine years prior.

[00:22:14] I got to this point in the book. Mm-hmm. There was, like, there were two hours left, and I was like, “Sorry, I really didn’t know that I was supposed to be wondering about this. I, I didn’t know… I thought that you had-” “… established that it’s not that sort of book.” Like, we’re… It’s not a mystery that we’re looking for answers for, and then we get a whole- Right

[00:22:33] you know, pages-long- Yeah … explanation. And she doesn’t know everything or anything, but she fills in the audience on how the illness started and spread, and it, it was distracting to me in the book that it really felt like this is supposed to be, like, a post-apocalyptic story, but not falling into the post-apocalyptic tropes.

[00:22:54] We’re a different kind of post-apoc story. 

[00:22:59] Donna: Yeah. I, uh- Fair … I liked in the book that they, part of her character profile was how she, they kind of left early. W- uh, what was it, um, was it when her Was it when her mother was dying and they, she left the city- Yeah, she was at home ’cause her 

[00:23:23] Rebekah: mom was sick, and like, yeah 

[00:23:25] Donna: And they- 

[00:23:25] Rebekah: Before her husband got sick

[00:23:27] Donna: right, before her husband got sick. And I kinda thought that was an interesting thing to know about her. How did she and her dad get out to this place and, and that kinda thing, and they didn’t really do anything with that in the, in the film. Um- 

[00:23:43] Rebekah: It was interesting that in the book she like, she had more personality.

[00:23:48] I think you knew more about why she was a good shot, and she had like a rancher’s personality in the way that she got into Dartmouth and had really bucked the- Oh, yeah … you know, using your tragic story as a way to get into a popular college. Somebody at her school, like her guidance counselor or somebody, said, “Hey, you have a chance to get this like crazy scholarship since you can’t afford to go to college.”

[00:24:10] Mm-hmm. And told her, “Oh, since your twin brother died in a motorcycle accident when you were a teenager, you should use that story.” Yeah, play it up. And she thought that was offensive, and so she wrote about how someone at her, like her school counselor tried to convince her to use her trauma to get into school.

[00:24:25] And she actually- Mm … ended up getting the scholarship because of the way she wrote it. Um, but you also get like more detail on- Yeah … her dead husband. But it just, in general she was more of a s- she was developed more in the book of a, as a strong character. In the film it was just kind of like this is just Pops’ daughter who happens to be able to shoot, and they’ve survived together, and that is like the entire personality.

[00:24:52] And like- 

[00:24:53] Josiah: She gets to- … 

[00:24:53] Rebekah: she’s more trusting than her dad … 

[00:24:55] Josiah: she gets to go into full doctor mode at the end. 

[00:24:59] Rebekah: That’s true. 

[00:24:59] Donna: Um, the last of our characterization changes that we’ll discuss is Melissa. In the film she’s seen in several flashbacks. Uh, she’s pregnant, happy. She’s just that picture of, of that peaceful, content mom that’s so excited to have a baby.

[00:25:21] Uh, Haig- Mm-hmm … visits their old Denver house. Um, and, uh, I was okay with what they did here, how he would a- always walk into the bedroom, always do that same action. She’d be there, and it was like the only memory he could conjure up that gave him that peace, but then also flooded him with guilt and remorse and all that.

[00:25:50] I mean, I was okay with that, that they repeated that some. Um- A- and in the book, she died in a, in a public flu ward. Uh, she was seven months pregnant, and in both cases he smothered her with a pillow at her request because she, she couldn’t breathe- In the- … and she was struggling so hard … 

[00:26:15] Tim: in the f- in the film actually, he turns her oxygen off or turns off the machine- 

[00:26:21] Josiah: And it was not a verbal request

[00:26:23] as she came- Oh, that’s true … like you could maybe say- 

[00:26:25] Tim: It’s just eyes … 

[00:26:25] Josiah: in her eyes she was asking for mercy, but- 

[00:26:28] Donna: Yeah. Yeah … 

[00:26:30] Tim: in the book, i- in the book it does say that she tried to verbalize, but it wasn’t any… He knew what she meant, but she- Mm-hmm … didn’t say, “Please turn it off,” or, “Please smother me.” 

[00:26:42] Rebekah: I mean, regardless of, regardless of whatever else, he does think that he killed her.

[00:26:46] Donna: Um, I felt like this was a very good choice in the end of the film when he goes and comes back and Seema’s like, “You can’t just leave like that. I’m sorry. That, that’s not acceptable.” And, you know, there’s actually emotion there. And then he says to her, “I had to say goodbye.” I was so glad that they, they wrote it, that it was written that way.

[00:27:14] I felt like that was reasonable. I felt like it was, 

[00:27:19] Tim: it fit what they did. 

[00:27:19] Donna: If 

[00:27:19] Tim: he loved her and missed her the way that he says- 

[00:27:23] Donna: Mm-hmm … 

[00:27:23] Tim: that was perfectly appropriate. 

[00:27:25] Donna: Mm-hmm. And him continuing to go back there over and over, he’s not saying goodbye. He’s not putting an end to it. 

[00:27:35] Josiah: Yeah. 

[00:27:35] Donna: And so I, I really like that a lot.

[00:27:38] Josiah: I- Totally … one of m- my favorite line in the entire film is when they’re laying in their little shelter together outside, and Seema’s like, “You should stay.” And Hig says, “No, I gotta keep going west.” She gets up, she’s mad. And he’s like, “Wait, Seema, don’t go.” And Seema says, “Hig, my husband died too. You don’t get a monopoly on grief, okay?

[00:28:10] We both lost our spouses.” 

[00:28:11] Rebekah: Yeah. 

[00:28:12] Josiah: And he’s like- Yeah … “I killed my wife.” And I, I wanted Seema to say- “My point still stands Hig.” Are we one upping it? … “You don’t get a monopoly on grief.” 

[00:28:25] Rebekah: We’ve all done horrible things in this situation 

[00:28:27] Josiah: Yeah. 

[00:28:27] Donna: And in truth, he 

[00:28:29] Rebekah: didn’t- It was a good moment … 

[00:28:30] Donna: in truth, he didn’t kill her.

[00:28:33] She was dying of, of this flu and all those things, and, you know, whether, whether you question how- It was 

[00:28:41] Rebekah: assisted suicide. 

[00:28:42] Donna: Yeah. At least. I mean, yes. I’m not disagreeing with that. Yeah. I’m just saying her death according to everything else that was going on around him was imminent. 

[00:28:51] Rebekah: All right. So let’s move into these interesting plot changes.

[00:28:56] Mm. This was a lot different of a plot than I expected. Yeah. I did not realize how much they would change, but somehow keep the frame of what actually happens in the book. So first thing, uh, early on in the film, there is an incident where Bangley kills two teens approaching. Uh, one of them had a gun. We find out later it was unloaded, but, um, you kind of recognize this weird friction between them in this incident where Bangley is just very shoot first, ask questions later, which he literally says- Mm-hmm

[00:29:29] at one point, versus Hig, who’s just trying to figure out who he is and how to feel about this life. The book doesn’t actually have an incident specifically like that. Um- Yeah … though the friction is more established because Bangley constantly complains about him helping the Mennonites/families. Mm-hmm. And then they d- like, they do get into the fact that he’s got a soft heart and Bangley doesn’t understand why he can’t be more of the shoot first type.

[00:29:57] Mm-hmm. So I thought this was really good in the movie. I thought it was a good show, don’t tell moment. Um, Hig is not not a killer. He does end up having to take lives, um, and it’s not like they try to avoid that entirely, but it’s clear that he hesitates to feel like it’s okay to shoot people from afar just because they’re approaching the compound.

[00:30:18] Donna: Yeah. Could they be good? 

[00:30:21] Rebekah: Right. 

[00:30:22] Donna: Yeah. 

[00:30:22] Rebekah: He wants to, like, think… He wants to have the potential to think better of people. 

[00:30:25] Donna: I can accept that for sure. Um, in the film, Jasper is stabbed in a night raid on the airfield. Uh, he’s helping Hig and Bangley defend the base. Uh, it happens early. We’d mentioned that before, and he is buried next to Melissa I was so taken aback when this happened, uh, because in the book he dies of old age, and they’re out on a winter camping trip.

[00:30:59] He and Hig go out together and like they do often, and he th- they make a thing about Hig sleeping outside, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, that they sleep outside a lot, and they’re out there and it’s, it’s very cold. He, he dies in the winter, and Hig buries him in this Whoville quo- uh, Whoville quilt under this, this stone cairn.

[00:31:25] And- I, I really was touched by this in the book. One, he remarks that the dog’s old, but I didn’t necessarily see… I wondered if the dog was gonna die at some point. Were, was that gonna be a part of the story? Yes, I knew the dog- Right … would eventually die. Um, but I felt like the way this happened, it was, it was a nat- of natural causes.

[00:31:53] Um, and He had lived a good long life with Hig. When he got stabbed and killed in the m- I was so taken by that. I was like, “What? That’s how this is gonna happen?” I mean, I… And knowing that my friend with us, uh, knowing she hadn’t read the book, I was trying not to go, “Oh, ugh,” and have reaction. But, um, I don’t know how I felt about…

[00:32:23] I, I, I’m not, uh, not that it happened, but how they, how they chose to change it, I just… Do you all have, what are your thoughts about this? ‘Cause I- I have a thought … that would be interesting. Yeah. I, I’d be really interested to know if you felt the same thing or thought it was better or worse or… 

[00:32:42] Rebekah: I think that this plays a little bit into what Josiah says about watching before reading.

[00:32:47] Mm-hmm. I had no expectation other than I knew he died. Because I lost Molly recently, I looked up before starting any of this, does the dog die, so I was, like, prepped for it. Mm. And I just knew that at some point the dog would die. I saw the movie before I got to this part of the book. Mm. I liked it better in the movie because I felt like it l- it was more touching to me that the dog died as part of, like, being brave and helping- Mm

[00:33:12] protect- Yeah … like, his person. And in the- Too bad … book it just felt like… I, I just lost a dog due to old age, and so, like, that feels like a waste. In my head that’s, like… I, I know that sounds stupid to say it like that, but that’s- No … how I feel. And so because he died because of, like, being a good boy, I don’t know, it just, it hit me better in the movie.

[00:33:34] Sure. So I actually see it the opposite direction, but I don’t know if it’s ’cause I hadn’t read it first and I wasn’t shocked by having, like, a subverted expectation. Yeah. You know? 

[00:33:42] Donna: Tim, what were you gonna say? 

[00:33:43] Tim: I was, I was through that point in the book, excuse me, before we saw the film. I preferred the, I preferred the way it was in the book.

[00:33:54] However, they took out the part with the fly fishing and wanting to be there with nature and all of that stuff that was part of the story of Hig staying grounded. You know, he’s lost an awful lot in the world, but he’s still got these things. You know, he’s, he’s, he’s still doing the fishing. Yes, the fish have changed, but he can still ground himself there.

[00:34:20] Mm. He’s still got Jasper and those kinds of things. It made sense to me that when Jasper dies, it’s like, okay, that’s, that’s it. That’s, I’ve lost it all. Mm-hmm. Because that’s the catalyst in the book for Hig to leave, um, is because Jasper dies. 

[00:34:40] Josiah: Mm. 

[00:34:40] Tim: So I just, I didn’t care for the way that the film did it, but I understand part of what they did was- Mm

[00:34:48] they adjusted because of some other things as well. Okay. So. I can see, I can see why you would like that better. Um, it is difficult- Mm-hmm … to think that sometimes death doesn’t come because of some disease or illness or tragedy. Sometimes death just comes because of age. And, and that’s- Mm-hmm … hard to deal with at times.

[00:35:12] Josiah: I think it works better in the book. Uh, thematically it being, uh, a book and movie completely contrasting all these post-apocalyptic tropes- Mm-hmm … that someone that, uh, you know, the most beloved- Yeah … character would die of old age. I can understand why that would be uncomfortable and unenjoyable for sure.

[00:35:36] Um, I did not enjoy it in either medium. I was a little- Sure. Sure … in the film, him being stabbed or I didn’t know if the r- raider, the reaper was, like, biting his neck open or something. Hi- his, his chest. 

[00:35:53] Rebekah: No, they, there was a stab sound. There was 

[00:35:55] Josiah: a stab. 

[00:35:55] Rebekah: They did that, like, metal sound, yeah, around when the shots were happening, so.

[00:35:59] Josiah: Gotcha. Um, that made me think, like, someone was responsible for Jasper’s death, and then it didn’t f- it felt like it was setting up- Mm … him being angry at, oh, he would be angry at the reapers, and he runs into the reapers later. Or maybe he- Mm … can’t be angry at the reapers, so he’s angry at Bangley, but that didn’t really go anywhere.

[00:36:23] Uh, and he’s- Yeah … maybe he’s angry at himself for being careless and leading them back to the camp. But I didn’t really get that he was especially hard on himself compared to before Jasper’s death. So in the film, it just felt like it was a setup for him to be mad at someone or something or himself, and it never led anywhere.

[00:36:42] Mm. Whereas it was just- 

[00:36:43] Rebekah: I don’t know if I agree with that. I think, I think that it was the re- it made it a more sensible reason for him leaving Bangley, because he was actively mad because Bangley im- kind of indicated that maybe he hadn’t, like, gotten rid of the reapers as quickly as he would have because he was mad that Hig hadn’t, you know, found them on his run.

[00:37:03] He had, like, gone out too early, and Bangley warned him, and whate- and just trying to prove a point. But it also felt like the point at which he s- he went from being, like, confused and depressed to actually suicidal, which again, is kind of the theme of the film. So I thought that it ga- it grounded a lot of those, like, decisions in reality versus in the book, I was like, “Okay, well, your dog died.

[00:37:27] Why are you leaving the person that’s helping keep you alive?” Like, I don’t, I don’t understand the connection- Mm-hmm … between those two things. It’s just- Yeah … your dog died of old age. Like, you knew this was- Yeah … coming. I don’t know. It just solidifies how I felt about it. 

[00:37:41] Tim: Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for sharing.

[00:37:41] For, well, for me, I- for me, I saw it as- 

[00:37:44] Rebekah: Yeah … 

[00:37:44] Tim: as that, that motivation that says, “Okay, this is the last straw.” 

[00:37:48] Donna: Yeah. 

[00:37:48] Tim: Either way. I’ve, I’ve lost so much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:37:51] Donna: Yeah. 

[00:37:52] Tim: Yeah, either, either way they did it, I … It’s always, it’s always difficult. You know, you don’t like that. There’s a reason that you don’t kill the animal in films.

[00:38:03] It’s an extremely- 

[00:38:04] Donna: Sure … 

[00:38:04] Tim: uncomfortable thing for us. One of the plot timeline differences is actually a change in motivation, um, why Hig lands in the valley- Mm … in the first place. In the film, he has plane trouble. He’s out flying, and he ends up crash landing, and he finds the girl. Which by the 

[00:38:24] Rebekah: way, I was like, “Is he gonna die?

[00:38:25] What is happening 

[00:38:26] Tim: right now?” Yeah. 

[00:38:26] Rebekah: He’s in a plane. 

[00:38:28] Tim: Is he gonna j- Did he decide to go ahead and fly into the mountain? In, 

[00:38:31] Josiah: in the mountains, no- Yes … no plane nearby. 

[00:38:35] Rebekah: Flat. Yeah. No flat. Yeah. 

[00:38:38] Tim: Yeah. Yeah. Um, that’s where he finds the girl, Seema, and her dad, Pops. Um, he follows their donkey. I’m assuming his thought process is there’s, you know, a donkey would be a very unusual animal to be living by itself.

[00:38:57] Josiah: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:58] Tim: Right. You know- Yeah … just out there ’cause, well, they don’t run fast and so they would- Hey. Would be prey if it’s just- Mm … the fastest animals survive. Yes. Mm. So anyway- Mm … for the film, that is a more romantic, kind of less weird plot. Kind of. Mm-hmm. I, I definitely agree it’s less weird. For the book- He’s flying out deliberately on enough gas to get him out, but not to get back, which doesn’t really make sense to me.

[00:39:31] He spots the girl and the father from the air. 

[00:39:34] Rebekah: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:34] Tim: And Pops ends up shooting the plane window out. He lands anyway because he’s obsessed with seeing the girl. 

[00:39:42] Rebekah: He hadn’t seen a woman in nine years- So is Gabriel … or hadn’t been with a woman in nine years. Okay. 

[00:39:45] Josiah: So of course there’s the meeting of Pops in the film.

[00:39:50] Pops disarms Hig- Mm … but they quickly treat him as a minor threat. Seema kind of befriends him at his plane when he’s trying to fix it. Mm-hmm. And she brings him on the farm. Mm-hmm. It’s the second time Pops has seen the guy, and Pops is like- Mm … “What is, what is he doing here?” She’s like, “Oh, we’ll get him out of here soon.

[00:40:10] He just needs an ax.” And he’s like, “Well…” 

[00:40:14] Donna: He just needs an ax to kill us and chop us up. Return it sharpened. And 

[00:40:17] Josiah: he has the gun on his back too, walking through the farm. Like, just as a courtesy perhaps, maybe leave the gun at the plane or something. Also, did they- Mm … let… They, they let him take his rifle but not his pistol, and I don’t think he took any of his ammo from their first meeting.

[00:40:34] Tim: They w- they took all of the ammo. He 

[00:40:36] Rebekah: just- 

[00:40:36] Tim: But… Yeah. 

[00:40:37] Rebekah: Yeah, he just, they made him just take the ammo out of the guns and that was it. Yeah, 

[00:40:40] Josiah: I wonder if there was any continuity to that- And they took the pistol … s- uh, or if that was a, a goof. In the f- in the film also, I want to point out that Pops does not shoot right away.

[00:40:54] Mm-hmm. And he just says, “All right, put the gun down,” from behind him. And I feel like that’s supposed to be a callback to Bangley killing the two teens without warning- Mm … when they have the guns out. 

[00:41:10] Rebekah: Interesting. 

[00:41:11] Josiah: And on one hand, I just think it’s a really sloppy parallel, ’cause it, I think it has the opportunity to work towards the themes of you need to, you know, even in a post-apocalyptic age, what matters?

[00:41:23] It’s human connection. You know, find human beings to connect with. And so I would’ve wanted Jacob Elordi to do something different than approach the farm in secret with a gun. I would’ve liked for him to have taken a different approach- Yeah … to say, “I am different.” Or for Pops to clearly make a different decision than Bangley, because from where I’m standing, he seems like Bangley, who didn’t immediately shoot Jacob Elordi, and that’s the only difference.

[00:41:56] But I don’t really- Mm-hmm … understand what that’s supposed to be saying about Pops. 

[00:42:00] Tim: I fully agree with you, Josiah. I, I agree. That’s what I was expecting, he coming in saying, “Okay, here, I’m taking the magazine out. I, hands are up. I’m, you know, don’t shoot me,” ’cause he, they just had that conversation. Yeah. Or to get shot or to find that Pops is so completely different.

[00:42:20] But instead, I don’t know, Pops is, uh, just like he completely disarms him and you’re expecting- I, I don’t know. You’re just expecting something that doesn’t happen. It’s just strange 

[00:42:32] Josiah: It’s a missed opportunity for sure in the script. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, in the book it’s a lot more stressful. They tie him up. Uh, Hig negotiates- Yeah

[00:42:41] through written notes before they let him go. Um- 

[00:42:45] Rebekah: He has a ream of paper for some reason. Yeah. 

[00:42:48] Josiah: Just a ream. 

[00:42:49] Rebekah: He literally says- It’s important … “It’s a good thing I have a whole ream,” or something like that in the book. 

[00:42:53] Donna: It’s important. 

[00:42:55] Rebekah: Although he kinda does what you just said you wished he had done, which is he used written notes to kinda prove that he wasn’t the same person that they’ve run into before.

[00:43:05] Mm-hmm. So maybe they, I would say maybe they did better in the book at- Mm-hmm … establishing that. Yeah. But weirdly, the inverse of that is it makes Hig less dumb. Like, why are you walking up armed and, like, trying to disrupt these people? But it then makes Pops look exactly the same as Bangley, because Pops, like, could have killed him from afar.

[00:43:28] Now, he did give him a break because of the- Mm-hmm … the notes or whatever, but it kind of had the opposite effect of the other part of it. Mm-hmm. So basically they essentially have, they share a couch or, like, she, like, comes to sleep next to him a few times before the sexual stuff happens. Mm-hmm. And they do eventually, like, m- have relations, and it’s, it is very…

[00:43:52] I don’t know if I would say it’s written erotically at all. Like, it’s not really written to evoke that kind of emotion. It’s more written as, like, this is something they want- Perfunctory … but they’re both so depressed and traumatized- Yeah … that it’s like they’re not sure how they feel about it. She also comes back, and for the s- next several days, they don’t do it again for five days because she had dreams about her dead husband Thomas the sa- like, that, like, after it happened, and felt really guilty.

[00:44:18] So it’s just this, like, awkward… It’s not really romantic. It’s just kind of odd. Like, it’s, it- Okay … it’s really strange. 

[00:44:25] Tim: Here again I r- I realize that y- you guys all have difficulty with the way that the, the book is written, the plot and all those kinds of things. Mm-hmm. For me, this makes sense, that it’s not, it’s not erotic.

[00:44:43] It’s not that kind of thing. It’s like, okay, we’ve, we haven’t done this for nine years. The person that we loved died. Yeah. I haven’t seen another person that I even wanted to consider this with Do I wanna consider this? Is, this is something my body- Like the complication mentally … seems to want to do, but I’m not sure my brain is in it.

[00:45:04] Donna: It’s the em- Yeah … 

[00:45:05] Tim: yeah, the emotional- Maybe, maybe not, it, it’s- … versus the 

[00:45:06] Donna: physical. 

[00:45:07] Tim: Yeah, it’s just a- Sure. Yes … it’s that, it’s that wrestling. And I suppose that’s p- that’s part of what I get out of- Mm-hmm … the, the book and the film, less in the film, but- Mm-hmm … is that wrestling with humanity, with how you move on- Yeah

[00:45:22] with life. I mean, let’s, let’s be honest. We drive to the grocery store and get groceries. We drive to the gas station and get gas. We drive wherever we want to go. You know, things are there. It’s all around. The one thing that is not normal to talk about in post-apocalyptic stories is just the day-to-day grind of it.

[00:45:48] You know, it’s, “Oh, well there’s this other group that wants to destroy us,” and it’s, it, it’s dramatic. There’s always, like, a threat looming. Yeah. Right. But most of it would be just deciding to get up- 

[00:46:00] Rebekah: Mm-hmm … 

[00:46:01] Tim: and move, and- Sure … do what needs to be done. Plant stuff- Yeah … and farm your land- You know- … and do, yeah, do the-

[00:46:06] six months from now- … farming stuff … I’ll need food, so I’ve gotta prepare for that. 

[00:46:10] Rebekah: Yeah. 

[00:46:10] Tim: Yeah, but I don’t wanna- Yeah … get up out of bed today. So- Yeah … yeah, that’s that kind of stuff for me. 

[00:46:17] Rebekah: They totally reworked it in the film though, so they do have a scene where Seema comes and lays beside him at night.

[00:46:25] They’re dressed- So they’ll just- … like, they just snuggle … they’ll just be together And then it kind of ends, it kind of ends sadly, ’cause sh- it’s when she says the thing Josiah said was- Right … like, one of his favorite scenes. She’s like, “Will you stay?” And- “You don’t have a monopoly on-” … then he’s like, “No, I gotta keep going.”

[00:46:39] And then it’s, “You don’t have a monopoly on grief.” And basically for the rest of the, like, kind of segmentation until almost the end of the film, they clearly are, like, familiar, but there’s no kind of progress to the romance. Right. And then at the end when things have, like, settled down, they share a kiss.

[00:47:01] And I way prefer this in the movie. I do agree what Dad said, like, makes sense, and the realism of it. Mm-hmm. I- it’s believable for sure, but in terms of the film, I preferred it- Mm-hmm … at least the way- Yeah … that it was on screen to me felt… I liked the chasteness of it. Mm-hmm. I liked that in the film he didn’t seem like he was just chasing after a boner.

[00:47:24] Yeah. Yeah. I- I hate to say it that way, but, like- I’ve- … the way the book is written, I hated. He made this big deal about it several times, and I was like- Yeah … “This is so gross.” 

[00:47:31] Tim: Yeah. I, oh, I agree with that. I, I certainly think- Yeah … that the, the way the film did it makes more sense. It’s, it’s weightier because, oh, they finally found each other.

[00:47:43] What do they want to do? Yeah. Lay fully clothed just up against another human being. Yeah. 

[00:47:50] Rebekah: Yeah, 

[00:47:50] Donna: just, 

[00:47:50] Tim: like- That’s- So- … experience that. And that’s as far as it goes in the film. And they- You know, they kiss at the end … yeah … but- 

[00:47:55] Donna: And they have closure where he says goodbye to the memories- Yes … and hanging onto his- Right

[00:48:02] wife. Before he goes any farther. Where she had done that, like, they es- th- I think it was established, you know, that, that Seema had done that. She had moved on, and, and so I felt like, yeah, it was a great… I felt it was a great decision, for sure. 

[00:48:16] Tim: Um, leaving the canyon where Seema and Pops is, are, where Seema and Pops are is different, um, in the film.

[00:48:30] Hig’s been working to clear a runway area, which Pop helps with because it’ll get him out of there faster. Hmm. Um, to clear that runway- Good 

[00:48:38] Rebekah: use of the donkey. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:48:39] Tim: Yeah, they use the donkey and, and, uh, Seema helps out and, uh, he u- unexpectedly landed there and now he needs to be plan- planning to, to leave.

[00:48:52] Uh, it’s really… The only part of it that’s unplanned is the rush that happens when the reapers take over the home- Mm-hmm … and it’s a frantic escape, all three in the plane. In the book, there’s no attack. Uh, they’re not clearing the runway. Seema and Pops are planning to leave with him because the drought means the farm’s not gonna be sustainable much longer.

[00:49:19] Um- The, we get a little bit of the math that goes on with the plane, a little bit of the realism that- Mm … you know- Mm-hmm … the author would have researched. You know, it’s plane weighs this much, we’ve got this much fuel. 

[00:49:35] Rebekah: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:35] Tim: You know, we can take this much cargo weight-wise, and it’s doing the math and- It was 

[00:49:40] Rebekah: complicated because it was colder

[00:49:41] Tim: yeah. So Hig flies Seema out, Pops drives the, uh, the highway to meet them. 

[00:49:48] Rebekah: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:48] Tim: Which is a little strange, uh, because- Mm-hmm … w- when I re- when I read this part, I was listening to this part, I thought, “Oh, so Pops doesn’t go with them.” And then later he meets up with them again, and it’s like, what- Mm-hmm … wh- wait a minute.

[00:50:04] Yeah. Why, why didn’t he just fly with them? And yeah, it’s just, it was a little strange. I think 

[00:50:10] Rebekah: it was the math of the takeoff- Yeah … from where it was. Yeah. They had to put him in the plane when it was gonna take less fuel- Yeah … to take off with him in it or whatever. Yeah. It was, the film was way better about this.

[00:50:23] Yeah. It didn’t, the book makes you just kinda go- There was more action for sure. Yeah. 

[00:50:27] Donna: Uh, the f- 

[00:50:28] Rebekah: the- But I mean, the book is more realistic. 

[00:50:30] Donna: This whole clearing the runway part where they were, the trees and the donkey and going through that together, that character development I loved. They were liv- They had found a way where they could live a normal life and they could do something.

[00:50:45] They had purpose to what they were doing. It f- that little, that section, I really liked this change a lot, a lot. Sure. 

[00:50:54] Josiah: You know, I think I might like the book better when it comes to Grand Junction Landing. It’s a hard one ’cause the, the film took a big swing, which was bold, which may be- Into 

[00:51:06] Donna: another universe

[00:51:08] Josiah: yeah, may be commended for how bold it was. Oh. In the film, the tower tries to send them on their, on their way. Pop mentions- Mm … he used to eat pancakes at a local diner, and that’s what gets them cleared to land. It was a sweet little moment. Um- 

[00:51:26] Rebekah: I was really excited about it until I realized everything else that was about to happen.

[00:51:31] Yeah. It was very sweet. In that moment I was like- Yeah Oh, and then everything else went very downhill 

[00:51:37] Josiah: Yeah, the book- in the book, uh, he was told to land right away. It was, it was very exciting for Hig- Mm-hmm … to hear that those familiar airport codes- Mm-hmm … and the exact instructions- Yeah … that they’re supposed to give.

[00:51:51] Hig was, it was like, “Okay, this, this is exactly what I was hoping Grand Junction would be, is a place- Mm-hmm … of familiarity for the old world, yearning for how things used to be.” He was so excited. 

[00:52:04] Donna: A- and then the Grand Junction set, it was a big set piece. This is where I thought, “Oh, this is Ridley Scott that gave you this intensity and weirdness in Alien.”

[00:52:17] Tim: This 

[00:52:17] Donna: is Alien. I was like, “Oh, that director.” It was here. You, all of a sudden you’re going, “What is going on right now?” And you immediately got that creepy- Horror film … you knew something horrible was getting ready to happen. And then it’s, “Oh, okay, I think we could keep, we could keep Seema. She could be useful.

[00:52:39] Let’s marry her off.” And then they discover the cannibalism, and then they shoot their way out. They all get to- Well … kill people. And then the 

[00:52:51] Josiah: Well, it starts before- They run 

[00:52:52] Donna: through the freezer … 

[00:52:53] Josiah: before they shoot their way out, um, Jacob Elordi with the expression- Oh, the- … of cardboard on his face, lights a match in the vodka or the alcohol-

[00:53:04] and sets Allison’s- Vodka. It’s a, it’s vodka … Janney’s, sets Allison Janney’s plastic face on fire. 

[00:53:10] Donna: Yeah. Which should’ve been- He said he’d really- … way worse because of her surgery … 

[00:53:13] Tim: mm-hmm. He, that’s why they said, “I’d really rather have the, the strong stuff.” 

[00:53:18] Donna: Yeah. 

[00:53:18] Tim: It’s higher proof. Yes. That’s why it’s more, it’s more, uh, flammable.

[00:53:22] And I, 

[00:53:22] Donna: I, I was… Were you thinking that she was drugging pops? Yeah. 

[00:53:26] Tim: Yes. I 

[00:53:27] Donna: was thinking there was gonna be drugs 

[00:53:28] Tim: in there. Yes, I thought- I did too … I thought she was gonna say, “Okay, you can take them,” and they were all gonna go, “No, you’re not.” Yeah. And 

[00:53:35] Rebekah: then- Yeah. That seemed like it was why the… It seemed like it was why Seema and Hig wouldn’t drink anything- Yeah.

[00:53:39] Yeah. Mm-hmm … ’cause they expected it. 

[00:53:40] Donna: Yes. And so, um, then they, they make it out to the plane. They drop the cool, uh- Grenades … bomb things that- Grenades … that Bangley had- Bomb things … loaded up. The grenades. The bomb things. And the grenades. That’s, that’s after. I mean, it’s the bomb things. Um, and the whole facility goes up in flames and it explodes and- 

[00:54:04] Josiah: Oh, and- 

[00:54:04] Donna: In the-

[00:54:05] Josiah: Allison Janney’s last line Oh, yeah, wa- “I tried, Daddy.” 

[00:54:11] Rebekah: It was a religious thing. 

[00:54:14] Donna: Yeah. 

[00:54:14] Rebekah: Because, like- They were creepily 

[00:54:16] Donna: religious- They- … and weird, and that was, I thought, “Wow.” 

[00:54:18] Rebekah: Whenever Pops… They said something about, “God help us,” or, “God willing”- Mm-hmm … or something like that, and Pops was like, “Oh, is this where God’s been this whole time?”

[00:54:26] Mm-hmm. And literally you saw all three of the people from Grand Junction go… Like, they just freaked out. Yes. Whatever. Okay. And so- 

[00:54:34] Tim: I have some questions about, about this, about Grand Junction for- Okay … just a moment. 

[00:54:39] Rebekah: Okay.

[00:54:43] Tim: Were some of the people artificial? Not acting artificial, but actually artificial. We 

[00:54:50] Rebekah: talked about this. Josh and I were very confused. It was confusing. Like, almost robots- Mm-hmm … because some of them were still, were fighting- Why were they standing? … and others were, like, standing just like they 

[00:54:52] Tim: were a robot- Were

[00:55:00] they dru- I wondered if they were drugged … whose brain- Botomized … wasn’t functioning. 

[00:55:03] Rebekah: Yeah. It se- Or a robot, yeah … again, it did seem drugged maybe. Mm-hmm. 

[00:55:08] Tim: Could have been 

[00:55:08] Rebekah: drugged. Yeah, it, it was confusing. It seemed very sci-fi when none of the rest of the movie had any elements like that. Right. It, it did- Without much explanation 

[00:55:16] Tim: for it.

[00:55:17] It was stran- it was strangely juxtaposed. That, that’s exactly- Yeah … why it felt- Yeah … it’s like, “Did, did I go to a different movie? Wait a minute. Did I, did I sleep through the ending and we’re starting a different movie?” Because it had those sci-fi kind of elements to it. Yeah. Not only was it horror film, but the sci-fi stuff.

[00:55:37] But some of the stuff was show, don’t tell, but it was so fast, I’m not sure that people caught it. The canna- cannibalism, you saw two heads in a bag. 

[00:55:51] Donna: Mm-hmm. 

[00:55:52] Tim: That’s it. That was the entire- 

[00:55:54] Donna: And then other bags with just bloody something in them. Yeah. 

[00:55:56] Tim: You didn’t know. You have no idea. Yeah. You assume from that.

[00:55:59] Yeah. So it was very small- Weird … suggestion and, um, it’s just, it was, it was odd. 

[00:56:06] Donna: Yeah. 

[00:56:07] Tim: Very odd. 

[00:56:07] Donna: And i- in the book there is a Grand Junction part. Mm-hmm. But it, it’s almost- Yeah … you know, it’s almost- A couple pages … nonexistent. There’s a, there’s a cable trap and Bush, uh, pops, uh, kills the tower operator.

[00:56:21] That’s, that’s all that… That’s the death that occurs. They take the fuel, they get out, and, um, Higg does kill intruders at the airfield. That’s, that’s no change. I mean, that happens- But in the 

[00:56:33] Josiah: movie- … in both. But- … Seema also kills. 

[00:56:35] Donna: Yeah, exactly. Yes. They all, they all get a, uh, get a chance to- 

[00:56:40] Rebekah: I will- … get some action

[00:56:41] comment more on this in my final verdict. I, I didn’t like the weird elements that felt sci-fi that didn’t feel explained, ’cause it did feel out of place- Yeah … in this, in this film. However, I did like that they expanded on Grand Junction and made it like a culty thing. Yeah. And I’ll get, I can get more into that ’cause of how I felt- Sure

[00:57:01] about the movie as a whole, but… Um, so another big action piece, I’m so grateful that this was in the film, ’cause it was very, like- edge of my seat in my opinion was Bangley being attacked by the Reapers or Raiders or whatever- Yeah … Reapers, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think in D- just we did establish, but the, the people with, like, the tattoos and the shaved heads, they show up in Denver and then attack Bangley, but the people who attack the home in the movie that- They look different

[00:57:32] ran off, the other three, seem like there was a different- Yeah … group of people. Yes. They were on horses, whatever. Okay, so back to Bangley. Uh, the r- people with all the tattoos and everything, they attack in the middle of the night. He’s ready. He’s got blackface on. That was 

[00:57:49] Donna: so great- Let’s say green … him sitting- 

[00:57:50] Rebekah: Let’s say forest face It was 

[00:57:51] Tim: good because- Camo face.

[00:57:53] Yeah. 

[00:57:54] Rebekah: It was- It’s ca- it’s camo … camo face, whatever … camouflage. 

[00:57:56] Donna: Sitting there reading the book at night with that bla- that- Look … camo paint stuff on his face was- I leaned 

[00:58:02] Tim: over- … so good … to your mom and said, “The cover of that book looks like my Godzilla book that- It d- … Rebecca got me for Christmas.” 

[00:58:11] Rebekah: It does.

[00:58:11] It does. It does look that way. 

[00:58:13] Tim: I, I kept looking- It was weird … looking at it thinking, “Okay, is that, is that it?” 

[00:58:16] Donna: That would’ve been cool. 

[00:58:17] Tim: It wasn’t. But you could barely tell it wasn’t. That 

[00:58:19] Rebekah: would’ve been fun. So. 

[00:58:20] Donna: Bad call, Ridley Scott. Yeah. Bad call. 

[00:58:23] Rebekah: You could’ve used the Godzilla book. Mm-hmm. Um, so Bangley knew that it was happening, ’cause there were a couple of, like, people he had killed the day before, I think, and so he was, like, more prepared.

[00:58:32] Mm-hmm. And he puts on his night vision, and I mean, you have this mass of attackers coming. Mm-hmm. And they essentially, a lot of them get shot by Bangley. You really think Bangley is, like, done for. Um, but they attack in the hangar area and, like, open the fridge, and they’re throwing stuff. They find the armory where he’s got all of his guns.

[00:58:56] Um, which was kinda crazy. And there’s this huge tower that he and, uh, he and- Higg- … Higg had built together. Mm. And he is, like, climbing the tower, shooting at people down from as he climbs. It’s real intense. Mm-hmm. They end up knocking over the tower, and it falls into the armory and essentially blows up the remaining Reapers and probably the armory, like, from what I can see-

[00:59:23] and the tower. 

[00:59:24] Tim: Blow us up. Blow

[00:59:28] Rebekah: us up. 

[00:59:29] Donna: But- And you don’t- Blows 

[00:59:30] Rebekah: up. That’s how that 

[00:59:31] Donna: gets … That was perfect. No, no. I- Leave it. You gotta leave it. It’s great 

[00:59:34] Rebekah: Anyway. 

[00:59:36] Donna: Very Josh 

[00:59:36] Rebekah: Brolin. So- Great for him … you do not know in the movie what happens, though. Mm-hmm. Because it l- Brolin’s character, uh, uh, Bangley jumps off of the tower- Mm-hmm … right before it blows up, but it’s not clear if he essentially jumps into where it ends up falling- Oh, yeah

[00:59:52] or if he escapes or whatever. In the book, all of that happens off page, and so he leaves Bangley, and then all this other stuff happens with him, and they go to Grand Junction, all the… And then they come back to Bangley with the three of them, and they discover Bangley passed out, basically- Yeah … barely able to talk, and it seems like he was there for probably five or six days or something.

[01:00:16] Mm-hmm. He almost died in the attack that happened. Um, there were fewer people. In the film, there were, like, 30-plus attackers. There were a ton. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And in the, uh, book, he actually says something like, “Oh, it was 30 people.” And, uh, uh, Hig goes, “Well, I counted 14.” And he s- he, like, says the number. Wow. And there were four of them that were armed, so they were, like, less well-armed and stuff as well.

[01:00:41] Um, and they… Seema has to put him in what she calls ICU, where it’s like he has to have 24-hour supervision until he’s better. But because she’s the doctor, she’s able to save him. Um, I loved that this happened on page. I love that it happened- On screen … before Grand Jun- or on screen, yes. Sorry. Mm-hmm. I love that it happened before Grand Junction.

[01:01:03] Um- Mm. It was so fun to me to add some of this action. I loved that it makes Bangley seem almost immortal. Mm. In the book, he, like, almost dies. In the movie, when they come back- Oh my God, in the briefs … he is in his boxers, but he’s bandaged himself up- He’s in those tighty whities. It was great … and is walking around making food.

[01:01:21] It was- Great … very funny. Uh, gray tighty whities. Tighty grays. I’m so sorry. Uh, that, that don’t work. Tighty grays. Anyway, I thought that was a lot of fun. Mm-hmm. I had a blast with it. It was one of my favorite things that happened, and I literally was like… Yeah, I was on the edge of my seat, so I loved 

[01:01:38] Tim: it.

[01:01:39] Well, I think it was very well-placed because- It, yes … that attack gave you the prelude for what could happen, and then they fly into Grand Junction, where the lights are- Mm-hmm … on, the runway is clean- Yeah. For sure … the building has been repainted. Everything looks beautiful and pristine, and then it turns out to be it’s just another kind of attack.

[01:02:06] Donna: Love it. 

[01:02:07] Josiah: I’d, I don’t, I didn’t like Bangley’s last stand in the book or movie. I think it was too much one way, too much the other. In the film, like, obviously it was filmed well. I, I guess I prefer the film because you got… If you just watch it- Mm-hmm … out of context, it’s a fun action sequence, but I’m like, then I know something’s wrong with Bangley and I’m no longer in Hig’s perspective.

[01:02:33] And Hig goes the next- Mm … 40 minutes of the movie being like, “Eh, yeah, Bangley’s probably okay.” And when he comes back home and he’s like, “Something’s wrong,” I’m like, “Yes, I, I already know. Can you skip ahead to the part that I don’t know, please?”

[01:02:48] Tim: So you didn’t need the discovery part, ’cause we already knew. 

[01:02:52] Josiah: I think the discovery is what worked in the book, but the action is what worked in the movie. Yeah. But it, neither one of them you get the, you get the full benefit of w- the storytelling. Yeah. I didn’t like in the book how Bangley was just in the first third of the book, and then he just wasn’t a character.

[01:03:12] You know, he was in his head a little bit. And then he 

[01:03:13] Donna: was. 

[01:03:14] Josiah: At, at, in the last five pages. And in the movie, I was like- Mm-hmm … I don’t like that I see from his perspective either. I think the story just did it in, did the incorrect thing. Hmm. 

[01:03:24] Tim: Mm-hmm. In the film, spoiler alert- Yeah … everyone who matters lives.

[01:03:35] Rebekah: Nice. 

[01:03:35] Tim: There’s a dog. They move to the Mennonite colony. Aw. They have a party- That’s true. … with the band and dancing. Hig shows Sena the Jasper constellation. And I have more about that in a moment. The dog stars. Yep, just a moment. Yep. Cut that. Don’t go there yet. Nope, that’s fine. Oh, okay. In the book, he s- they stay at the airfield, they’re a quiet fou- found family.

[01:04:01] The crows, jet contrails hint at, that there might be other survivors, and it closes on Hig’s Chinese poem about going home. Did, did he write it in Chinese- No, it’s his favorite poem … or he found it? 

[01:04:16] Rebekah: No. It’s his favorite poem- Oh, that’s the one. Okay, okay … 

[01:04:19] Tim: by Li Shangyin. Yeah. Yeah, 

[01:04:21] Rebekah: yeah, yeah. 

[01:04:22] Tim: That’s not- Here, here’s my deal.

[01:04:23] Josiah: Yeah. 

[01:04:24] Tim: I, I, I like the, the wrapped-up bow at the end of the film, okay? I like- Mm-hmm. Yeah … I like that ending. The other one is just strange. Um, but- He shows Seema the Jasper constellation. I knew, because I had asked and been told, why it is called the dog stars, because he makes a big deal about the, he doesn’t know the constellations and so he names them.

[01:04:56] In the book and the film, that’s a tiny, easily missed thing- 

[01:05:05] Donna: Easily missed? A bigly missed … 

[01:05:05] Tim: because he doesn’t call- I didn’t know … he doesn’t call one of… Yeah, it’s the cover of the book. Thank you. Ooh. But I didn’t have the book, the physical book. Mm. Um, so he calls it the Jasper constellation. Oh, how sweet.

[01:05:21] So what are the other ones? The German shepherd constellation or the Pekinese constellation? No, they’re not dogs. They’re other things. 

[01:05:31] Donna: I will, I will say I became the emotional girl watcher at the end when they had the little dinner together and the music, and Josh Brolin’s sitting off to the back, and then he walks up.

[01:05:44] I know it’s predictable. I knew it. It made him softer- Oh, it was so sweet … but I liked it. I like the fact that he decided to go and make a, an attempt at joining this community. He played the guitar. I was really glad for that. I see the smirk. You know, eh, I, I really was. I liked it. And, uh, when he got up on stage and, you know.

[01:06:02] I 

[01:06:02] Josiah: wanted Pop to start playing the spoons with him. 

[01:06:05] Donna: Yeah. Yeah, I thought that was, that was pretty cool. 

[01:06:10] Rebekah: Well, let us do our final verdicts. Um, I’m gonna go first ’cause I have thought mine through I would probably give the book for, I, I’m gonna give this as my personal rating. I try to be really neutral and, like, judge something on its- Mm-hmm

[01:06:25] merits. And so actually, I will do that, and I will put in my personal feelings too. Mm. This book is a three and a half out of 10. The writing was infuriating. The POV was ridiculous. The way it was edited is ridiculous. I hated everything about the prose. I hated everything about the pacing. I hated who this person was interiority-wise.

[01:06:46] I did not like the way that the plot went. It was boring. Their characters were not well-developed. Like, I literally the whole time was just like, “What is the point of any of this?” It just drove me nuts. I didn’t end up liking most of the people. Like, I didn’t like who they were. It just did not work for me.

[01:07:04] I did like the movie better. If I had to put a number on it, I would probably still give it, like, a six and a half or a seven out of 10. I did not, like, this was not, like, a favorite or anything. However, on a, from a critical standpoint, the movie was weird. It didn’t understand what kind of movie it was. Mm.

[01:07:23] Like, it tried to be multiple genres. Yeah. And so it didn’t make sense- Mm-hmm … in that way. I did think that the… What were you gonna 

[01:07:30] Josiah: say? I feel like we’ve talked about in the past, what was the last Ridley Scott film we did? Was it Blade Runner or was it something else? I f- I feel like- Yeah … I guessed that Ridley Scott’s real talent is not necessarily as a director so much as a genre combiner, and that’s what people usually like about him.

[01:07:49] Rebekah: Yeah, he likes to genre bend. Mm-hmm. So I did have an issue a little bit with the, with the way that the genres clashed, and it, it didn’t feel natural. Like, it, it felt jarring. It did not feel like- Mm … this somehow makes sense even though it shouldn’t make sense, you know? However, I will say the reason I like the film, despite the fact that I think from a critical perspective it is strange and doesn’t quite work, I did like that in a way it felt Like a person just experiencing the real kinds of things that might be going on if this happened in the world.

[01:08:29] Like, you had the group of people who had essentially gone feral- Yeah … and were, you know, coming and attacking. You had relatively normal people who’d been able to survive because they happened to have skills that they developed before the apocalypse that allowed them to survive. You had people falling in love.

[01:08:46] You had innocent Mennonite families. You had someone who seemed like a drug addict in Denver that was still somehow hanging on. You even ran into a cult and, like, had these people that were, you know, taking advantage of the situation in that way. It actually felt, as strange and disjointed in some ways as it was, it felt like I was actually watching a potential reality unfold in a, in a almost like a nonfiction book about this kind of a thing, where it’s like- Where it’s just fact

[01:09:18] these things don’t feel like they go together, but you’re just telling the story as it happened in all the weird, nonsensical ways that it happened. And so I liked it. Like, I, I wouldn’t go see it again in the theater. I don’t know that I… I’m, like, I don’t know. I’m, I’d buy it, if it was three bucks, like, on Apple TV.

[01:09:37] Like, I think I’d put it on again in the background, you know what I mean? I don’t know that I would wanna sit and focus on it, but it’s like a, a movie that I wouldn’t tell people, like, actively, like, “Definitely don’t go see this. It’s the worst,” either. So that is my final verdict. I think the movie was better.

[01:09:53] The book, I do not understand how this book has sold a single copy- Mm-hmm … much less millions of them. Um, the genre does not work for me, but I also… I think part of it was I was trying to give it a chance, and I was like, “Maybe I don’t like the audiobook reader,” and then when I got into the physical book and saw the horrifying way that it was edited, I just, I was compl- I just don’t care.

[01:10:14] Mm-hmm. I hated it. Like, it made me mad. Mm. I was like, “No quotation marks? Who doesn’t put quote… Why? What is the possible ex-” There is literally no explanation for this. It doesn’t do anything. It’s just difficult- Yeah … to read intentionally. Hmm. And I just, it made me lose all respect- Yeah … I had tried to hold onto.

[01:10:33] So that is how I feel. I was very passionate about this. That is how you feel. But yeah. 

[01:10:38] Donna: Um, okay. You said a lot of things I agree with. Um, had you continued listening to the audiobook, I think it, it wouldn’t have been better. I, I did not like this constant thing in Hig’s mind, “Turn here. Look over there. Pay attention, Hig.

[01:10:58] Da, da, da, da, da. Duh.” It, it was very unnerving to me, and it, it just didn’t work for me. Uh, I would say Yeah, I mean, I guess a three for the book. I don’t wanna just be complete trash fire, uh, like I could do, but I’m not gonna do that. So I’ll say, like, a three for the book. As soon as the music came on for the movie, I thought, “Oh no, I’m gonna like this movie because of the soundtrack.”

[01:11:30] I did think the soundtrack was pretty cool. It was a Hunger Games vibe a little bit- Appalachian … but not completely. Yes. And, and I did, I did enjoy that. It was visually attractive in, in most of the, the, uh, nature scenes and the, the broad sky scenes and his flying and things like that. I liked the feeling when he was in the plane.

[01:11:52] I’m trying to be as positive as I can. Uh, I liked the, the feeling in the plane when he would turn the engine off and just let it coast, and that it got silent, and you were there, and you just felt like you were- Yeah … it was, there was freedom there- I liked that … and that kinda thing. I liked the way that came across on screen.

[01:12:12] Um, I’ll, I d- Casting, casting, casting was not good. I would say give the movie… I mean, I’ll say, I’ll be generous and say five-and-a-half because of the, the music, the sound, the, uh, score. Um- So, I mean, so that’s about it. And I’ve, I, I like, like we’ve all said before, I wanted it to be better. Like I, I was hoping, and you know, I’m not sorry we read it and experienced it because I do want the, I do want to be able to critically look at things a little more deeply than I have before, and I, I, I want to, I want to experience some of those things.

[01:13:01] So I’m glad we did it. I’m glad we got to talk about it. And I also like that we all had some different thoughts about things- Yeah … on opposite sides. I, I liked that, so I enjoyed covering it with you. 

[01:13:13] Josiah: Well, my favorite parts were the survivalism and in the book how Peter Heller made it clear that he knew what he was talking about with airplanes.

[01:13:26] He made Hig an expert, and it was believable when he was like, “I’m checking this thing that Josiah’s never heard of, and I’m gonna flip this and check this ohm meter.” And I’m like, okay, I’m in his pers- 

[01:13:41] Rebekah: This-o-meter. … 

[01:13:42] Josiah: I’m in his, uh, perspective. I feel like I’m in his brain. This is interesting. He’s an expert at something.

[01:13:49] Uh, the f- Yeah … on the other hand, the film was shot beautifully with these soaring shots. Now, my rudimentary understanding of filmography is that sometimes, uh, assistant directors and what do they call it, like second directors or stuff, stuff like this, will often cover shots that don’t include actors. So I don’t know if Ridley Scott directed those, or maybe he storyboarded them and gave them to someone else.

[01:14:21] Um, I don’t wanna give Ridley too much credit, but it looked pretty beautiful in most of it. Uh, Grand Junction was a step too far, but it was a bold swing Uh, Jasper was a good boy in both. So I think that the book is probably most interesting because of the weird prose, and I think it’s the… It’s a, it’s a book- Hmm

[01:14:44] that’s meant for people who vociferously read through dozens of commercial fiction books every year, and this… And it, and it- Oh … strikes them as- Yeah … oh, this is unique. This is different. This is, uh- 

[01:14:59] Tim: Yeah … 

[01:14:59] Josiah: this has a lot of the tropes of literary fiction, but you know, it, it’s a little unique ’cause it’s in a post-apocalypse setting even though you don’t have a lot of the tropes of post, post-apoc that I’m calling it.

[01:15:11] You get the weird prose and the quotes, and it- Hmm … I have to stay engaged in a new way. I can imagine how other people might feel that way. It’s a little crazy, but I, I think it’s unique. Um, I would give the book maybe a 4 out of 10. I’d give the audiobook a 3 out of 10. So I, I would give the book itself a four, and the movie, let’s, let’s go up to, um, oof, somewhere between five and a half and six.

[01:15:41] It was very pretty. Josh Brolin was fun. He was too likable, but he was charismatic. I’ll, I’ll say a five and a half. It’s just boring. What character choices were there? Jasper dies, and so Higg decides to leave the safety of his home and the companionship he has with Bangley to seek something that isn’t…

[01:16:02] That doesn’t exist perhaps. And that is a choice, and it’s the wrong choice, but I’m okay with people making wrong choices. I just want people to make choices that further their character. And so he made that one choice, and then the next choice would’ve been, oh, in the book to stalk a woman. Uh, yeah It’s just like there’s so few choices spread out over the two-hour movie, the nine-hour audiobook.

[01:16:33] I can’t do- but y- but the movie was better. The movie ha- was better paced, even though basically just as many things happened, it was better paced than the book. 

[01:16:44] Tim: Okay. Well, it’s down to me, isn’t it? So, um, I will… I, I would give, I would give the book, uh, probably a six. Um, I… It’s not my favorite book. I’m not gonna go back and read it.

[01:17:02] Um, I certainly agree with Josiah. It is the first audiobook that I have ever listened to at 1.75 and- 

[01:17:11] Donna: He does 

[01:17:12] Tim: the speed up … had no trouble- Yeah … following it. I can’t listen to them really fast because I have to be able to f- to follow and process. This one at 1.75, I could still follow perfectly well. That’s almost two, two times.

[01:17:27] I’ve never- Mm … listened to anything that fast. Um- 

[01:17:31] Donna: You still haven’t. 

[01:17:32] Tim: Well, spoil it. Um, so- Mm … well, I bumped it up to 1.85 when I was trying to get through, get through the ending of it, uh, and didn’t quite finish that part. But, um- I would give the film, I’d give it a seven. I, I might be generous enough and say 7.5.

[01:17:55] I enjoyed it. It was an enjoyable film. I won’t go back to see it. It’s not something I’ll, I’ll look up. It… I don’t, I won’t even go and look at it and say, “Oh, the scenes were so beautiful,” blah, blah, blah. ‘Cause occasionally there’s something we’ll go back and say, “Well, the movie wasn’t that great, but the scenery was beautiful.

[01:18:14] It was beautiful cinematography.” It’s, it was okay. Um, so when I said I, I enjoyed it, I didn’t mean that I loved it. 

[01:18:26] Josiah: Yeah. 

[01:18:26] Tim: So, uh- Yeah … 7, 7.5 for the film. I thought the film was better, um, except there are some spots that I thought the, um, I th- I thought the book did a better job. But the one thing that bothered me f- between the two and all of that stuff was Elordi’s performance, and especially the things that, uh, that I mentioned that didn’t ground him in the world and give us a reason to care about him.

[01:18:54] Because in the film he’s like, okay, he whines, and somebody’s helping take care of him, so he whines. And occasionally he has to do the very things that he doesn’t like about the other guy, and then he kind of, he just feels terrible. A- and it’s just, it’s a kind of a one-note sort of thing, so there’s way too much of that.

[01:19:14] So although I liked it better than the rest of you, you know, a six for the book. Read at a, listened to it at a really fast speed. And a seven, maybe 7.5 for the film because I thought it was better. Uh- 

[01:19:28] Donna: Yeah … 

[01:19:28] Tim: it’s not great, but it was, it was pretty good. I, I enjoyed it. It, it wasn’t a waste of my time- Yeah

[01:19:35] to watch it. 

[01:19:38] Rebekah: Cool. Well, uh, if you enjoyed listening to this, please drop us a five-star rating or review wherever you are listening or watching to this podcast. You can also support us on Patreon, sign up for our Discord. There are links in our description to everything that you need. You can also find us on social @bookisbetterpod, or hang out with us on Discord, request episodes, et cetera, et cetera.

[01:20:03] Uh, we hope you did have a great time. And until next time, honey, just put your sweet lips on my lips. We should just kiss like

[01:20:18] Tim: real people do. Pop goes the Jasper. Did I do good? Did I do it? That’s it. Yee-haw. Yeah, Jasper was the real star. 

[01:20:18] Rebekah: Yeah. True

[01:20:26] Tim: I’m a 

[01:20:27] Josiah: dog 

[01:20:28] Tim: star 

[01:20:28] Josiah: Can we- What? And we should argue 

[01:20:30] Tim: No. 

[01:20:31] Josiah: Could we- Oh, no. Hold on. Wait. Go back to