S04E05 — Dark Matter
SPOILER ALERT: This episode and transcript below contains major spoilers for Dark Matter.
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Featuring hosts Timothy Haynes, Donna Haynes, Rebekah Edwards, and T. Josiah Haynes.
Alright baby listeners… this week we’re climbing into the box. We’re comparing Blake Crouch’s Dark Matter with the Apple TV series, two versions of the same guy who chose his family, and then a zillion other versions of him who all want that same family back. We’re talking Ryan Holder, the dumbest genius ever, super massive hot Daniela, Jason 2 rizzing up his wife and then buying his allergic kid NUT ICE CREAM, and the shoot-first fixer Dad wants off his screen immediately. Plus, Dad drops an ex-fiancée none of us knew about, Josiah admits he didn’t realize there was a Jason 2 until the end of episode two, and we answer the only question that matters when there are dozens of you: which Jason gets the girl? Three of us say the book is better. The fourth knows what she did.
Final Verdicts
If you haven’t listened to the episode yet, we recommend waiting to read our verdicts. (But you’re probably grown, so do what you want!)
The book stays locked inside Jason Prime’s head. Jason 2 is too cocky to plan for his double ever coming home, and the ending is a bullet with his name on it.
The show gives Jason 2 a storage unit, a camera on the box, and a redemption arc. On the way it adds a dead twin, a stranded pilot named Blair, a Jupiter safe word, and enough loose threads to tie up a season two.
Donna: The show was better.
– Book Score: 8/10
– Show Score: 8.2/10
Rebekah: The bookwas better.
– Book Score: 8.5/10
– Show Score: 7/10
Josiah: The book was better.
– Book Score: 8.4/10
– Show Score 8.3/10
Tim: The book was better.
– Book Score: 8.5/10
– Show Score 8.3/10
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Full Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Donna: Ooh.
[00:00:00] Rebekah: Okay, guys. I have an idea for the intro for today’s show. Okay. Tell me what you think. All right, here we, here we go. You ready? Jason the Science Guy. Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. Jason the Science Guy.
[00:00:12] Donna: Um. Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. Whoa, whoa,
[00:00:13] Rebekah: whoa. J.
[00:00:15] Donna: He actually- What? … was a quantum physicist. Would that fit in there?
[00:00:21] Rebekah: Like, that’s science, right?
[00:00:23] Like, so yeah.
[00:00:25] Tim: Jason the-
[00:00:25] Donna: Well, how would it
[00:00:26] Tim: sound? … quantum physics guy.
[00:00:28] Rebekah: Jason the quantum physicist. Uh, does not- Mm … it doesn’t roll off the tongue. Okay. What, what about this one? It’s not good. How about
[00:00:34] Donna: this one? So no one told me life was gonna be this way. Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. Your job’s a joke, you’re broke, your wife is DOA.
[00:00:45] What about that?
[00:00:46] Rebekah: Okay, that gets dark. I don’t know if we should get that dark that fast. I really like that one. Um, it’s catchy.
[00:00:53] Donna: Yeah, I guess.
[00:00:54] Tim: I’ve got a catchy tune in, in my head.
[00:00:56] Donna: Okay. All right.
[00:00:57] Rebekah: Okay. I’m ready.
[00:00:59] Donna: All right, here we go. Oh, no. He’s gone already. If
[00:01:03] Tim: it’s- Marsha, Marsha … it’s the story of a man named Jason-
[00:01:07] Donna: Uh
[00:01:07] Tim: who was busy with three wives and a cube.
[00:01:11] Rebekah: That- That makes it sound like- I mean- … this is a different story than we’re talking about … yeah. That
[00:01:16] Donna: one goes a different direction.
[00:01:18] Josiah: But what about this?
[00:01:19] Donna: Like, yeah. Okay.
[00:01:20] Josiah: Okay, I’m ready. SpongeBob SquarePants. SpongeBob SquarePants. SpongeBob SquarePants. SpongeBob SquarePants.
[00:01:27] Rebekah: SpongeBob SquarePants. SpongeBob SquarePants. SpongeBob SquarePants. SpongeBob SquarePants. Jason. SquarePants. Jason. Jason.
[00:01:32] Josiah: Yeah, it has
[00:01:33] Tim: nothing to do with it. Jason. But sure. Jason. All right. J- yeah.
[00:01:37] Donna: Boy, I think it’s time to- I- … I think it’s time to cue the theme music
[00:01:53] Rebekah: Welcome to today’s episode of The Book is Better. Uh, I’m very interested to hear all of your opinions today. We’re gonna be talking about- Mm … Dark Matter, which I really got… Uh, I enjoyed the reread. So spoiler alert for Dark Matter. In a content warning, I would say the book is probably, like, PG-13. It’s got some, like, violence and some darker themes.
[00:02:17] It doesn’t get particularly- Mm-hmm … graphic. I would say the television show gets, like, just a little more inappropriate, so just parents- Mm … of kinda tween, teens, be aware of that. Yeah. Okay, today’s fun fact, though, to get to know us, this story is about someone taking different paths, uh, and learning all of the different ways that his reality could’ve been, uh- Mm-hmm
[00:02:40] all of the different ways his reality could have gone, and I want to know, what is an example of a path not taken in your own life? Mm. I will say I actually have a good answer, so I’m gonna go first. Um, my path not taken is something I’ve actually thought about recently because I am writing a book, and, um- Mm-hmm
[00:03:00] you know how you’re not supposed to do, like, main characters in your book as self-inserts? Do you know what I’m talking about?
[00:03:07] Donna: I’ve read a little bit
[00:03:08] Tim: about that. I’ve heard
[00:03:10] Rebekah: that. I, I’m doing that. So anyway- … in my self-inserted character I had to give her a job and some of these things, and I thought, “Okay, trying to explain the fact that I have, like, six jobs or whatever it is right now is not particularly interesting.”
[00:03:26] It would be kind of interesting if she had just one job to focus on, right? And so as I was doing research for what would be good, I landed on making her the head of immersive experiences at Universal Orlando. Oh. So I think a good path not taken in my life would’ve been having a job where I get to create experiences that when I experience- Mm
[00:03:48] them in my real life, make me feel an unparalleled degree of whimsy and joy. So there’s my path not taken. Aw,
[00:03:55] Tim: how sweet.
[00:03:57] Donna: Thanks. Um, I’ll go next. Okay, so mine is a little more serious. Uh, basically, decades ago, well, I guess four decades ago, uh, I had a choice in my life to continue to, like, totally hate and despise my dad because we had issues when he, when I was young.
[00:04:20] Um, and when I became an adult and grew up and, well, started growing up, um, I had to decide whether I was gonna hang onto that- And refuse to forgive and all those things, or if I would forgive him and, and move past that. And, um, with your dad’s help and God’s, uh, continuous encouragement and reminder that to forgive is to be free, um, I, I forgave him.
[00:04:53] And I don’t know if people buy this or not, I’ve said this before in, in talking about this, uh, i- in the past. The next time I saw my dad after I made that choice to forgive him, he never looked the same again. Mm. And I know now, all these years later, and of course he passed away in 2010, but I know now that had I not embraced that or accepted that, I, I can’t imagine what my life would be.
[00:05:26] Because, um, I was not a happy person through that time. And, um, even if everything else in life was going good, that was a constant kind of cloud over everything. And so that’s kinda, that’s a path that I chose not to take, and now I can look back in hindsight, which obviously is 2020, and, and realize that it was, it was a good choice.
[00:05:55] So.
[00:05:56] Rebekah: Well, I love that.
[00:05:58] Josiah: Uh, I try and live my life without regrets. Mm-hmm. But, uh, one of the first big regrets I remember from high school that put me down the path of deciding I cannot dwell on these paths not taken, was when I had a crush on a girl in high school. She asked me at a birthday party if she and I…
[00:06:23] She was like, “Do you wanna make out?” And I said no, ’cause I got nervous. I don’t know. I don’t have any game. I had- Mm … kissed one person up to that point. It was very unnerving. But I think about it and I’m like, “Oh, it would’ve been nice to kiss that person.” Mm. And I bet it- Yeah … would’ve been so bad that I try to forget it And I think that she went a little…
[00:06:51] I don’t know if sh- she’s a little interesting nowadays, so it’s probably a dodged bullet, but-
[00:06:58] Rebekah: There’s so many things that you could mean by that, and I can’t talk about any of them- … but I will imagine them in my mind.
[00:07:05] Donna: Yeah, that’s good.
[00:07:06] Josiah: Well, I’m imagining that I’m running for office and she listens to this.
[00:07:11] Mm. Yeah. And so interesting is where I guess I’ll leave it, but-
[00:07:17] Rebekah: It’s a pretty safe word.
[00:07:18] Josiah: Thanks. I, I am a big proponent of safe words.
[00:07:23] Rebekah: It’s okay. If you’re running for office, I hope that that becomes-
[00:07:27] Josiah: No, we can cut that …
[00:07:28] Rebekah: your, uh, your slogan.
[00:07:30] Josiah: No,
[00:07:30] Tim: cut that. I love those safe words.
[00:07:32] Donna: Yeah. What about you-
[00:07:35] Tim: Okay … Paul
[00:07:36] Donna: Utter?
[00:07:37] Tim: My path not taken affects all of us actually. I was engaged, uh, before I met your mother.
[00:07:45] Josiah: What?
[00:07:45] Tim: And, uh, that was a, that was a different type of relationship- I’m sorry.
[00:07:51] Rebekah: Reveal …
[00:07:52] Tim: and yep, the relationship, um, wasn’t meant to be. Um, we had- Mm … we’d known each other for years and, and those kinds of things. But, um, because of that path that I chose not to take, um, I became friends with your mom and- Mm
[00:08:13] the rest is history. You know, we have two children together- Mm … and all that kind of stuff. Yeah.
[00:08:18] Rebekah: What children? Oh, never mind. Hm. Hm.
[00:08:23] Tim: Two amazing kids, and interestingly enough, um, both of them befriended my ex-fiancée at some point- Yeah, that was great … as well as my wife.
[00:08:34] Rebekah: Yeah.
[00:08:35] Tim: So.
[00:08:36] Rebekah: Josh worked for her for a little bit of time when we first moved to Nashville.
[00:08:39] Yep.
[00:08:40] Tim: Pretty cool. Yep.
[00:08:43] Rebekah: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:43] Tim: I was a rotten person for a while. Hopefully I’m less of a rotten person now.
[00:08:49] Rebekah: We don’t think you’re rotten, Daddy
[00:08:51] Josiah: And you probably never
[00:08:52] Rebekah: were. All right. Agreed. All right, so what is Dark Matter about?
[00:09:00] Josiah: You know, I was wondering about this, and so what I did was I read the book, and then I discovered-
[00:09:07] Rebekah: Wow
[00:09:08] that
[00:09:10] Josiah: I discovered that Dark Matter follows Jason Dessen, a quantum physicist who traded a promising research career to become a college science professor in Chicago, where he lives with his wife, Daniela, and their 15-year-old son, Charlie. Now, one night he’s mugged, aw, drugged, eh, and shoved into a large metal box by a masked man-
[00:09:41] Donna: Gosh
[00:09:42] Josiah: who turns out to be Jason 2.
[00:09:47] Donna: Oh,
[00:09:47] Josiah: great. Whoa. What’s that? Himself. What? It’s a version of himself from a parallel world. 15 years earlier, this Jason chose ambition over family and went on to invent the scientifically impressive box, a device that- Is
[00:10:07] Rebekah: that its name?
[00:10:07] Josiah: Well, y- uh, something like that. They should give it a name, shouldn’t they?
[00:10:12] They kinda carry the
[00:10:12] Donna: box, the box, don’t they, though?
[00:10:13] Josiah: Schrodinger’s box, they should call it.
[00:10:15] Donna: That’s it.
[00:10:16] Josiah: A device- I see … it’s a device that when paired with a specific drug t- cocktail, thank you, Ryan, l- it lets its occupants exist in superposition, uh, it’s a quantum mechanics s- uh, idea, and step into the multiverse, where every decision spawns a new parallel world.
[00:10:38] Jason 2 has come to steal the quiet life he gave up, his own path not taken. Steal,
[00:10:45] Rebekah: kill, and destroy.
[00:10:47] Josiah: When he, when he- Okay … we meet you. Now, Jason Prime and Amanda, a psychiatrist from Jason 2’s world, navigate realities both nightmarish and impossibly perfect, while all Jason Prime cares about is getting home to Daniela and Charlie.
[00:11:07] Rebekah: Okay. Awesome. So fascinating. Yes. We tried to keep in only what’s in both- Mm-hmm … as usual. What did we like about this adaptation? I think we’ve added this into a few episodes. Mm-hmm. I like it, ’cause we often talk about the things that we don’t like but, uh- What do we like that’s- What did we like that they kept?
[00:11:24] Josiah: They kept. Hmm.
[00:11:27] Donna: Uh, okay. I have one. I appreciate the fact that even though it could have been made, you know, ramped up the drama on TV, they kept the character of Jason 1, of Jason Prime, they kept him driven to get back to his family.
[00:11:50] Josiah: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:51] Donna: And if you really think about it, he’s in all these other worlds- in this secular society we live in- Mm-hmm
[00:12:00] it would have been very normal for him to have found other relationships and other whatever. But they, but I, I thought it was really cool that they kept that line, um, throughout. So that was my, that’s mine.
[00:12:16] Rebekah: I agree.
[00:12:17] Donna: Yeah.
[00:12:17] Rebekah: I think my favorite thing that they kept, I’m a hard sci-fi lover, and I was glad that they explained things in the show- Mm-hmm
[00:12:24] like superposition and some about how the drug worked and stuff that could make them able to go in between different universes and realities and stuff. So I like that anytime they’re gonna keep that stuff.
[00:12:34] Donna: Yeah.
[00:12:35] Tim: I like the fact that, um, the story is about the man who chose a wife and child and family- Mm-hmm
[00:12:47] as opposed to a man who chose at that point to, to jump into research even deeper and- Mm-hmm … and to make a name for himself. Yeah. So it’s, it’s the difference between those two things in both book and film, and I like that.
[00:13:05] Josiah: Well, that was mine. Oops. I was gonna say that-
[00:13:09] Tim: Should have spoke lou- faster …
[00:13:11] Josiah: No, I wanted to be a servant, and I don’t regret it.
[00:13:16] Rebekah: Oh. Wow, you’re better than the rest of us.
[00:13:18] Josiah: Yes, and I don’t regret that. It is- Good thing … this is the path, this is my favorite path, is being a servant. So- Wow … I think that the premise of the show can get awfully close to being anti-abortion, and I’m not saying that it’s necessarily just that. But I can imagine that someone at Apple TV was thinking, “Is there a way where we can make abortion feel less like you are going to regret it for the rest of your life?”
[00:13:59] And the author said- Hmm … “Well, I’m not… I assume that he’s not gonna be some base MAGA guy.” But he stuck to his guns ’cause the, this story is about a man who regrets choosing career over family, and I, I suppose I would applaud the- Yeah … I, I don’t wanna sound like some old guy from 60 years ago, but it, it’s a show that establishes family values, and it’s like, you know-
[00:14:34] Rebekah: Oh, absolutely
[00:14:35] Josiah: careers are great, and families are kinda better
[00:14:40] Rebekah: Yeah. Okay, so, well, let’s talk about differences. We’re gonna start with characters, go into setting, and then I think that’ll lead us into the plot. Uh, let’s start with Daniella, shall
[00:14:53] Donna: we?
[00:14:54] Josiah: Daniella was, was, uh, a fun character in, in all the different- Mm-hmm
[00:15:01] universes we found her. Daniella Prime, in the original universe, the show portrays her as a gallery curator.
[00:15:10] Rebekah: Mm-hmm. Mm.
[00:15:11] Josiah: Whereas in the book she is portrayed as a stay-at-home mother. She’s a former artist. It’s a vital plot point in the book that she’s a stay-at-home mother, whereas in the show they… I, I still like it in the show because in the alternate universe- Mm
[00:15:31] where she doesn’t have a son, she is the headlining artist at the gallery. And so- Yeah … in the, in the show’s version of the prime parallel universe, she has to curate other people’s art- Mm-hmm … because she never had the time to put into her own art
[00:15:48] Rebekah: I was half and half on that because I feel like I don’t…
[00:15:52] I loved in the book that her being a stay-at-home mom was something that they decided to do as a family, and it was honorable. Like- Mm-hmm … Jason Prime didn’t have any issues with it. However, in the show I do think it also makes sense, because if you think about it, there’s probably no real reason why she still had to be a stay-at-home parent.
[00:16:11] They have one child.
[00:16:12] Josiah: 16.
[00:16:13] Rebekah: Um, especially in the show, they gave her a more of a reason to have been a stay-at-home mom, um, with an additional character that they add, which we’ll talk about later. But yeah, that one for me was kind of, eh, it’s fine. I, I think it’s hard for anyone in mainstream entertainment to want to show, like, stay-at-home moms in a really positive light, and this does in the book.
[00:16:37] Yeah. And so it’s just probably made more sense to give her a job, I guess.
[00:16:40] Donna: Yeah. A, a really small change, I mean, i- in the scope of everything. This is really small, but I thought when we met Daniella Prime, I was like, “She’s pretty,” but sh- I felt like they made her as plain-looking as they could. Like, I just, I kept looking at her thinking, “Uh, yeah,” ’cause, you know, we’ve talked on the, on the, um, podcast several times about how stars are beautiful.
[00:17:12] All actor- you know, y- you’re gonna be- Sure … beautiful.
[00:17:15] Rebekah: If you put them up next to normal people, they look different.
[00:17:17] Donna: Yeah. But then when he went into the universe where she was the primary artist at the, at the gallery, she was stunningly beautiful, and I was like, “Oh, my gosh. Wardrobe and makeup, you did your job.”
[00:17:34] I, I was like, “Wow.” Uh, then we move on to Charlie, who is their, Daniella and Jason Prime’s son. Uh, Charlie is, in the show, he’s like, um, he’s a skateboarder. He’s, he’s a pretty normal kid- And I like the fact that they made him a good kid. I don’t, I don’t remember any iteration of him where he was like super rebellious and a problem.
[00:18:05] I don’t remember that. Mm-mm. And I, I really liked that. There were very few
[00:18:07] Rebekah: iterations of the universes that really had him.
[00:18:10] Donna: Right. But I
[00:18:11] Rebekah: think in
[00:18:11] Donna: the ones- That’s true … he was
[00:18:11] Rebekah: in there was nothing like that.
[00:18:13] Donna: Uh, he’s a, he li- he’s a skateboarder. He’s got a, a, a crush that is part of where Jason Two’s character starts to slip up a little bit in, in that little story arc.
[00:18:26] Uh, he’s a friend James. He starts, he starts picking up that dad is off probably before Daniella does, I, I think. Um, a m- more obviously before she does, let’s say that. Um, in the book- Well, ‘
[00:18:41] Rebekah: cause she was smitten. She started getting smitten when Jason Two was-
[00:18:44] Donna: Yeah …
[00:18:44] Rebekah: rizzing her up.
[00:18:46] Donna: Oh my gosh, please. Uh, in the book he’s, he’s barely sketched.
[00:18:52] He’s, uh, the reviewers say that’s like all we know about him. He’s just average kid. He is their kid. Uh, yeah. He’s not bad or good or much of anything. So definitely the show improved on that I think. Um, again, I think the boy had a good chemistry with his parents. Yeah. I felt like they were believably a unit that loved each other and, you know, worked on life together and that kinda thing, so.
[00:19:23] Tim: He’s artistic too.
[00:19:26] Donna: Yeah, he does have that trait like his mother. He, he picks up, uh, he picks up ar- artistry
[00:19:32] Tim: here. Is that primarily the book where he’s, where he’s artistic, or is that the show?
[00:19:38] Rebekah: I think it’s really the show. He doesn’t have much of a personality in the book. Yeah. Okay. He, he just is, uh, exactly like Mom said, he’s just not sketched.
[00:19:45] He’s- Yeah … he exists, and he kinda moves the plot along. But- Mm-hmm … I liked that- You know … in the show they made him an artist. Next, in the important characters, we have Amanda Lucas. This was a really interesting one, so I’ll start with her book character. In the book, she starts out as a colleague of Jason Two’s at Velocity, which is the company that he started with Leighton Vance, where he invented the box, et cetera.
[00:20:11] Mm-hmm. And there is a very vague romance that’s hinted maybe, but it’s never confirmed. It’s not something that’s, like, a major thing between her and Jason Two, at least before, um, you know, all of the events of the book go down. In the show, they make her Jason Two’s live-in partner and very close, um, girlfriend, although they’re not married, but Jason Prime and Daniela Prime live together, which I thought was interesting.
[00:20:39] Uh, Crouch was quoted in saying, the author, that the show is a mea culpa, because she just kind of vanishes in the book. Like, her- Mm-hmm … whole story kind of ends a little bit mysteriously. Yeah. And she’s not very developed upfront. So he said that about his own writing. What does that mean? So he liked the way- My
[00:20:55] Tim: bad.
[00:20:55] Rebekah: Oh, it means that he missed it up, messed it up. It was a my bad, and they fixed it later. Oh,
[00:21:00] Tim: okay.
[00:21:01] Rebekah: So, and he was maybe the screenwriter for this, if I’m not mistaken. I don’t, I’m not 100% sure. He was huge. But I’m pretty sure.
[00:21:06] Donna: At least one of them. Yeah. I think there might- Yeah … have been somebody else with him in the credits, but he was definitely really involved in the show.
[00:21:13] Rebekah: Yeah. Yeah. I do, and I do think that this ended up working in the show- Mm-hmm … because as Amanda Lucas and Jason Prime end up going through the box together in all of these different worlds, there were a lot of kind of interesting stakes about if Jason’s never gonna make it back home, like, there’s some chemistry there.
[00:21:32] She loved a version of him that was a less good version. She kind of admits to that, and so it does create some interesting tension. Um, so… Did you guys like Amanda?
[00:21:45] Tim: I, I liked Amanda in the- Yeah … in the show. I thought they did a good job. I liked the fact that there was a connection between them. Mm-hmm.
[00:21:52] You could feel it. I also liked the way they resolved her storyline.
[00:21:56] Josiah: Hmm.
[00:21:57] Tim: I thought it was, uh, perfectly appropriate for- Yeah … she’s not going to be with this guy that they’ve been kind of building a relationship with. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But-
[00:22:06] Donna: And she realizes it … she wasn’t just dumped. Like- Yeah … that, that shows the strength of her character, but it doesn’t make her a girl boss, quote, unquote, whatever.
[00:22:16] Uh, it just, she just realizes- That’s not where his heart is, and she could respect that, and so she found- She
[00:22:24] Tim: makes a choice …
[00:22:25] Donna: this place. Yeah, she found this beautiful place. And I thought it was interesting that they added the part in the Jason and Daniella prom world where he was going to her as a, as a therapist.
[00:22:39] I thought that was- Yeah, Jason 2 went
[00:22:40] Rebekah: to see her
[00:22:41] Donna: as a therapist- Jason 2 went to see her … which was crazy … and I, I thought that was weird, but it worked. Like, he, you know, he went along as if he didn’t know her. And she- Well- … proved herself to be of a good character. Like, she still held onto, um, giving him good, sage advice, I guess.
[00:23:01] Tim: Let’s be honest. It was easier to include all of those people because there are many- Mm … of them that are in the different worlds- Mm … in different roles. Because now you’ve got a small handful of actors- … doing the primary- Yeah … parts, and you don’t have
[00:23:21] Rebekah: to- For 10, 12, 14- Yeah … 16, 18 people.
[00:23:24] Tim: Yep. Exactly.
[00:23:25] Rebekah: I do think, I do think it was interesting too when they added that in the show about him going to see, um, Amanda because it was clear that this guy just suffered from a grass is greener thing, you know?
[00:23:39] He got in his head that, “Oh, I missed out on this other best part,” and tried to convince himself that he was giving the other Jason this good life, whatever. But at the end of the day, he ended up going back to the woman that he was with in his world because he probably realized, like, “I was just as happy there as I could’ve been here,” at, you know-
[00:23:57] Tim: Well, and he has-
[00:23:57] after
[00:23:58] Rebekah: all
[00:23:58] Tim: that … he has a phrase that he says several times in their counseling sessions when she keeps digging to find out what’s wrong. He said, “It’s not perfect.”
[00:24:08] Rebekah: Yeah.
[00:24:09] Tim: He’s got this idea- Mm … that what he gave up was perfect, so now that he’s back in that, somehow it’s not perfect, and that’s not what he was expecting.
[00:24:23] Interesting for, for such a smart fella.
[00:24:26] Donna: Yeah.
[00:24:27] Tim: But in the… He is v- a villain. So Jason 2, uh, is a villain. In the show, he’s more cautious and competent. He uses- Mm-hmm … a storage unit as a base. He uses a remote camera to watch the box. Um, in the book, he’s just an overconfident, um, arrogant man who takes no contingencies against the real Jason returning.
[00:24:57] It’s like, what he’s done, h- it’s finished. It’s done. It’s over with. Um-
[00:25:04] Josiah: Mm …
[00:25:04] Tim: in the, in the show however, they add the fact that he would need to be more competent and, uh, more intentional if he’s going to stay there, so.
[00:25:18] Donna: It’s good
[00:25:20] Rebekah: In the book, it kinda seemed like he just had it in his head that after all of his experience with the box, because he developed it and this other Jason had no idea how- Mm
[00:25:30] that there was no way Jason Prime would ever figure it out, so why bother?
[00:25:34] Tim: Or even be able to use it.
[00:25:36] Rebekah: It threw me off when he did take a lot of, you know, contingencies, uh, but I thought it was a- an interesting way to take it, so. Okay, so let’s talk about Dawn. Mm-hmm. This is sort of an added character in the show.
[00:25:49] Person exists in the book, but Dawn in the show is Leighton Vance’s fixer. And we’ll talk about Leighton in a minute, but he’s the guy who owns Velocity in more than one of the realities, I believe. Mm-hmm. And Dawn is a woman who kills Daniela Two, which Jason meets, uh, at a gallery where, thing, where she’s the artist.
[00:26:11] Donna: The one where she’s super massive hot Daniela.
[00:26:15] Rebekah: Right, yes. Mm-hmm. And so Jason Prime and Daniela Two had connected and whatever. Uh, Dawn kills Daniela Two, drags Jason back, and then when Jason escapes with Amanda a little later, Dawn loses some fingers in the box door. So she’s kind of this recurring person that you see as kind of a bodyguard fixer character.
[00:26:35] In the book, there is a person, who is a man, who enforces for Leighton a little bit and is, I believe, the person who also kills Daniela Two, ’cause that does happen in both. Mm-hmm. But it’s a guy, and there’s no characterization there. It’s just kinda like a brute kills this woman. So I think the show, in multiple ways that we’ll probably talk about, gave them space to add more characters like this or to just add a tiny bit of development to people who- Ugh
[00:27:04] were characters in passing in the book. Th- And like Dawn …
[00:27:08] Donna: this character drove me nuts. One- One. Ah. There was literally no obvious clue whether she was a girl or a boy I think they made her look as androgynous and-
[00:27:24] Rebekah: It might have been intentional …
[00:27:25] Donna: I, I think it was intentional, which is neither here nor there.
[00:27:30] I, that part wouldn’t concern… Well, honestly it didn’t concern me, it just, I just noticed that part. But the part that bugged me was, one, they g- they didn’t give her, they didn’t give you anything to care about for this girl. She wasn’t a villain. Really- No … she, she was his protection. She, she wasn’t- She was doing her
[00:27:51] Rebekah: job
[00:27:51] Donna: she was doing her job. But you… When I see, like, Secret Service agents with dignitaries and presidents, like, you look at them and you think, “Man, what are they doing?” And she was really kind of fulfilling that role. But it, she just, I don’t know if it was the acting or the directing or the casting. I have no idea.
[00:28:13] But this character just lost it for me. I was like, every time she was on screen I was like, “Okay, is there something else I can do
[00:28:19] Rebekah: momentarily?” She’s very, very flat as- Yeah … as emotions and acting go. Yeah. Just almost robotic to the point of not seeming like a real person. Mm-hmm. So maybe it was- Yeah … a missed opportunity.
[00:28:32] Donna: Mm.
[00:28:33] Tim: Well, yeah, because her character had one response to things Shoot-
[00:28:41] Rebekah: Kill …
[00:28:42] Tim: then- Yeah … ask questions.
[00:28:43] Donna: Yeah, go after them-
[00:28:44] Rebekah: Yeah …
[00:28:44] Donna: kill them, maim
[00:28:45] Tim: them, whatever. It’s like you could have asked questions. Not in like a
[00:28:47] Rebekah: fun or- Yeah … funny way. Just- Yeah … that.
[00:28:50] Tim: Just shoot first. But- That’s always my response. Yeah, that was…
[00:28:54] That’s just… That makes for a very flat character. You don’t have any motivation- Yeah … any- Right … concern. Yeah, it’s just very flat.
[00:29:03] Josiah: But then there’s Blair. Now, this is a brand-new named character in the show. This is one of the- Yes … pilots of the box that Jason 2 invented. There are two versions that matter because Jason and Daniela also know her in the prime world.
[00:29:27] So in Jason Prime’s world, she’s a lawyer. She’s Daniela’s friend. Mm-hmm. They… There’s one point where I think Blair is… I don’t know. Is she babysitting Charlie or something like that? She bor- she lends them her car. It’s just like, yeah, Daniela has a friend. She occasionally is in our life. She’s just around.
[00:29:51] Rebekah: A good friend.
[00:29:52] Josiah: Yeah. For
[00:29:53] Rebekah: sure.
[00:29:54] Josiah: In Jason 2’s world, she was the, uh, the… She was the pilot of Jason 2’s box that m- went missing before Jason 2- Mm-hmm … went into the box and figured out himself. And we’ll probably talk more about it in the plot timeline section, but Blair is one of the stopping points that Jason Prime and Amanda, uh, find against all odds in one of the parallel universes where she’s kind of trapped.
[00:30:25] So in the- Yeah … book, there’s only a vague unnamed mention of others who went in the box and never came back. So Blair is essentially a new character built out of a throwaway book concept. I don’t… What frustrates me about Blair is I don’t understand the point of Blair in Jason Prime’s world-
[00:30:45] Donna: Yeah …
[00:30:45] Josiah: other than, uh, w- ’cause what I believe- I was gonna say that
[00:30:49] I would put money on the fact that they were trying to get someone to be in… I mean, let me look it up real quick. Is, is she technically part of the main cast? For some reason she’s not a part of the main cast. In my head, if she’s not a part of the main cast, then why do you have her in the prime world?
[00:31:11] Why is she in the last episode?
[00:31:13] Donna: Yeah.
[00:31:14] Josiah: It’s completely unpaid off. She does not have a point.
[00:31:18] Donna: Yeah, she’s just- Wait, do you
[00:31:19] Rebekah: not know the answer to that question?
[00:31:21] Donna: She just drops off the end at the… in the last episode. It’s like-
[00:31:25] Josiah: Is
[00:31:25] Donna: she the producer? Okay, she’s the… They throw her in there to do this thing, and then
[00:31:30] Rebekah: No, it’s for season two
[00:31:33] Donna: The last of the, the main characters, kind of the, well, I guess the last of the significant cast, I guess, is Ryan Holder.
[00:31:41] So in the show, well, in the book too, he’s Jason’s friend. He’s c- he’s a good friend. They haven’t, they don’t hang out tons together. Uh, Ryan is very focused on science. He’s kind of I think he’s kinda su- supposed to represent the r- the Jason Prime that could have been if he- Yeah … hadn’t moved into teaching and focused on, on his family.
[00:32:12] Uh, Ryan is significant because he reaches out and says, “Hey, I won this award. It’s super prestigious. Um, you know, I’m gonna be here at the…” Was it The Corner? What’s the bar? Oh my gosh, that stupid sign.
[00:32:29] Josiah: Yeah, The
[00:32:29] Donna: Corner Pub. Yeah, The Corner Pub. The Corner Pub.
[00:32:32] Josiah: Mm.
[00:32:32] Donna: Um, come to the bar, and you know, he’s there, and then he takes on other iterations.
[00:32:41] I will say Tim has some really specific thoughts about Ryan that he shared with me, um-
[00:32:48] Tim: I’m
[00:32:48] Donna: just waiting … almost every time Ryan was on screen. So why- … don’t you just share a little bit of your thoughts, dear husband- Well- … about Ryan Holder?
[00:32:57] Tim: The, he, his character changes a lot, and he’s in- Hmm … lots of the parallel worlds.
[00:33:05] Yeah. And that’s, that is book and show. But in every single one, he is the stupidest- … brainiac you’ve ever met. He’s the one that gets them in trouble every time. It doesn’t matter where it is. When it was- You are … when it was Jason-2’s world, and you’ve got the- Mm-hmm … he’s dating the voluptuous artist who in the other world is- Yeah
[00:33:33] is married to Jason, um, he’s the one that goes and says, “There’s a problem- Hmm … I need to tell you about, Layton.” He goes
[00:33:43] Rebekah: to the Velocity people.
[00:33:44] Tim: He goes to the Velocity people, who just- Yeah … shot- Kill
[00:33:48] Rebekah: his girlfriend …
[00:33:49] Tim: yeah, shot her- Mm-hmm … and captured Jason, and they end up killing him. In every world, he does something stupid, and it’s-
[00:33:58] it’s just over and over and over. In, in the Prime world, he’s the famous scientist because he gets- Mm-hmm … the prize and all those kinds of things, and he wants Jason to kind of bask in his glory and/or be a part of it.
[00:34:16] Donna: Yeah.
[00:34:16] Tim: In the, in Jason-2’s world, he’s the one that developed the, uh, the chemical compound that allows them to be able to navigate in the box.
[00:34:29] Um-
[00:34:29] Rebekah: Uh, seems fair. I think that’s like the person seemed to mess up everything.
[00:34:32] Tim: He is-
[00:34:33] Rebekah: Book, less-
[00:34:35] Tim: He’s the dumbest- Uh … genius ever.
[00:34:39] Donna: Yeah. But yeah, I agree. Book, less dynamic. Um-
[00:34:44] Tim: But he’s still there-
[00:34:44] Rebekah: He’s an important side
[00:34:45] Tim: character,
[00:34:45] Donna: yeah …
[00:34:46] Tim: and he’s still the one that, that develops the chemical, the, uh-
[00:34:49] Rebekah: Yeah, and I will say, we’re gonna talk about this, does he kill him?
[00:34:54] I thought he just- Threw him into another universe. He takes him and leaves him.
[00:35:00] Donna: He takes him in the box. You’re correct.
[00:35:02] Rebekah: Yeah. Yeah, he leaves him. So he’s not dead. Okay.
[00:35:04] Josiah: The one thing that I noticed was that additional multiverse worlds are added to the show. You know, you have 10 ep- well, nine episodes, and s- that’s a, that’s a lot of room.
[00:35:13] You could probably tell this story in six to s- six to eight episodes.
[00:35:19] Donna: Yeah.
[00:35:20] Josiah: I wanted to say six to seven, but I didn’t, uh, want to encourage- Okay … that one of the- Bad behavior One of the worlds is just one where there’s a bunch … There’s a lot of water. Jason and Amanda nearly drown. There’s one world with giant insects.
[00:35:37] There’s a world without air that kind of confused me. It seemed like the sun was- Mm-hmm … had e- had gotten bigger. I’m like, “Did they send a nuclear missile into- Yeah … the sun? Is that the idea behind this world?” I don’t know. Uh, an idyllic utopian world is also included, where Jason 2- Yeah … traps Ryan. Ooh. Mm.
[00:36:00] The book and show share some worlds, including the frozen world. There’s one with a plague. That was crazy. And the, even a nuclear wasteland.
[00:36:09] Donna: Oh my gosh. Yeah, those … The snow world, and then the stuff he had to go through. He had to see Amanda. He thought he was gonna lose her and she was gonna die. And then he had, he
[00:36:21] The one with the plague Oh my gosh. It was so terribly b- that was so, so painful.
[00:36:32] Rebekah: It was
[00:36:32] Donna: hard. Yeah, yeah.
[00:36:34] Rebekah: Hard.
[00:36:35] Donna: I’m glad they had it in there, though. I mean, it, it, it really drew you in to these char- to these characters to see what was gonna happen to them. So I, I thought, I thought it was good even though it was so difficult.
[00:36:48] So let’s fly on in to plot and timeline. So point of view. The book is almost entirely from Jason Prime’s POV. Now, there’s a chapter where Daniella gets the, gets the main spot there, but the rest of the book is, is basically from Jason’s, uh, viewpoint. In the show, there’s many viewpoints. You’ve got Daniella and Charlie at home with Jason 2 and how that unfolds, and they start to see and kinda question who is this guy.
[00:37:23] Uh, you’ve got Amanda and Leighton in a phone call. There’s a, there’s some things there. There’s hospital scenes. You’ve got Jason 2 going to at least, like, into the classroom, and he kinda starts to come apart there, and I think that’s… I kinda felt like that’s the place where he, you could see visually that mentally he was like, “Yeah, I don’t know if I like this as much as I thought I would.”
[00:37:50] I kinda, I think that’s where it started for me. You’ve got another scene where Leighton Prime gives Jason 2 money in exchange for use of the box. So there’s several places that it moves away from Jason Prime, which were appropriate. That, that worked really well I thought, so.
[00:38:07] Rebekah: I thought that the- Yeah
[00:38:09] scene of him unraveling as a teacher was fascinating. Like Like that for me was one of the things where you just kinda see and you’re like, no, there’s no plausible explanation- Yeah … for anyone that you know to be doing, like for the person you know to be doing this thing, but it’s so disconnected. Like, where Danielle is picking up on the weird stuff at home, but then Charlie’s picking up on it, but they don’t really talk about it.
[00:38:36] Right. And then the people that he works with are probably picking up on it, and it got me in this feeling of like, I would just not know what to do. It’s such a crazy circumstance because it makes no s- like, it’s so confusing. Mm-hmm. So I thought that that was really an interesting way. I like obviously that they added some additional scenes.
[00:38:54] I thought giving him more time at the hospital, which kind of is glazed over in the book, you know, that was kinda nice. And I, I really liked, um… We already mentioned one of them was like Jason 2 going to see Amanda in therapy, you know? Um, I thought that that was really like another interesting way to see a POV that wasn’t from the main character, so.
[00:39:17] Tim: We’ve, we’ve seen that kind of thing in a number of books. Um, the, the Hunger Games series was first person, and so to make the movie they had to expand that a lot. Yeah. Um, the same thing was true in, uh, the Vampire Bella- Twilight … Twilight, sorry. I
[00:39:39] Donna: knew that’s exactly what you
[00:39:40] Tim: were
[00:39:40] Donna: th- Yeah.
[00:39:41] Tim: So we’ve-
[00:39:42] Donna: Yeah
[00:39:42] Tim: that’s, that’s a nice way to be able to do a book, but if you’re gonna turn it into something else, you’ve got to be able to expand and- Mm-hmm … I like to see how they expand.
[00:39:56] Donna: I loved what they did with Amanda’s POV in the world where she stayed. I thought that it was interesting where she went off and looked for her family and did the research to see that the Amanda in that world has, was missing and et cetera, et cetera.
[00:40:12] So I liked that a lot.
[00:40:14] Josiah: A little thing, in the show Ryan offers Jason a gig in like Neurotech- Mm-hmm … in San Francisco, and when- Yeah … the switcheroo happens, Jason 2 rejects it. You know, he has his plans with Layton Prime. In the book there’s no such offer. It’s an added plot for- Yeah … Jason 2. The, the, there’s a lot of Jason 2 added plots.
[00:40:41] We were talking about some of them there, and I, it is a mixed bag for me. I liked some of them I, I liked others less. Like I, and, and some of it is that I’m halfway on individual plot points, where it’s like- I think the subplot with Leighton Prime makes logical sense. How did he expect to live his life with Daniella and Charlie?
[00:41:08] And i- it makes sense to me that he doesn’t wanna teach. Yeah. He’s grown accustomed to a high society type of living in his, in his number two world.
[00:41:21] Donna: Yeah.
[00:41:22] Josiah: And so he would use what he has. He doesn’t need these ampules anymore, and he knows Leighton is… He knows Leighton is predisposed to being obsessed- Yes
[00:41:35] with the idea of the box from his universe. So, like, all of this logically makes sense But ultimately, does it pay off? You know, maybe it’s a payoff in season two. Did it get too far, do you mean? I’m wondering if, if we spent so much time on it for it not to affect the f- the plot. Like, if you take the entire- I see
[00:41:59] Layton Prime subplot out, maybe there’s a little plot hole. Well, honestly. You take that out and you take his teaching sub- quitting teaching subplot out, it doesn’t affect the end of the show. The last two episodes, there’s nothing you have to change about the last two episodes if you take out those subplots.
[00:42:20] I don’t even think that- Could- … that subtext is added to the themes.
[00:42:25] Donna: Mm.
[00:42:25] Tim: Could part of that have been expanding the book to, to cover an entire season?
[00:42:31] Josiah: Yes, and to be clear- Another episode of the season … that’s not a good reason- Oh, sure … to just do things.
[00:42:36] Tim: Yeah, I’m just saying- Yeah … that’s probably, probably largely- Mm-hmm
[00:42:39] hey, we need to put filler in the book.
[00:42:42] Josiah: No you don’t.
[00:42:43] Tim: Yeah. Or filler from
[00:42:44] Josiah: the book. Just make it one fewer episode. Make it two fewer episodes.
[00:42:48] Rebekah: Something I thought was interesting was watching the process of Jason learning the box. Mm. In the show it felt, I don’t wanna say rushed ’cause that sounds so bad, but like it felt a little fast, it felt a little rushed.
[00:43:02] I did like- Yeah … how in the book he took his time. And I think in both cases he had Jason 2’s notes. But in the book- Yeah … he, like, actually reverse engineers what was going on, and I think in the show… That, I mean, it’s one of those things that’s when you’re talking about internal dialogue, it’s an interesting thing in a book, but it’s not- Sure
[00:43:20] necessarily something that’s gonna be as good in a fil- or, like in a, you know, a visual format. So- Yeah … uh, they, they truncated that quite a bit.
[00:43:30] Donna: Yeah.
[00:43:31] Tim: Crouch cut something else from the show. Uh, cut something out, that was in the book out of the show. The naked cut up Jason in the corner because- Mm-hmm … he said, um, it’s impossible based on the, the world and the physics that, of the world, uh, the only person in the box is you.
[00:43:52] Um-
[00:43:53] Donna: Mm …
[00:43:53] Tim: which is interesting because Jason and Amanda are together in the box, so that’s kind of true, but I understand what he’s saying. And
[00:44:01] Donna: Jason 2 and Layton- Yeah … are in there too.
[00:44:04] Tim: Yeah. But- Mm … only, you know, you wouldn’t find somebody who was traveling differently or at a different-
[00:44:14] Donna: Yeah …
[00:44:14] Tim: point than you are.
[00:44:16] So he, he cut that out. So that was, that was to try to be more consistent with the science that he had- Mm-hmm … created or was utilizing.
[00:44:25] Donna: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:44:27] Rebekah: I, I liked it in the b- it made no sense in the book, but I liked it. Mm. And I don’t even know why exactly, like, how I would describe that. But I mean, I understand because it didn’t make logical sense, like the only person in the box is you, so you, you can’t exist in the box in two iterations at the same time, I guess.
[00:44:49] Mm. But I don’t know. I thought it was just such an interesting little tidbit. Yeah. But it’s a small thing, so. Yeah.
[00:44:55] Josiah: The box, the corridor, and the conscious drug are the two parts I don’t like about. Mm. I, I can’t quite get behind the hard science of that. Yeah. I don’t know a better time to mention that than now with the concept of both- Yeah
[00:45:13] book and show, that the corridor I’m trying to make sense of, ’cause it’s like, “Oh, this is not actually what’s happening. This is j- what, what your brain is telling you is happening ’cause it’s so outside- Yeah … of what you can understand. But why? I never, I was never convinced that within one ampoule use you can go to multiple realities
[00:45:42] Donna: You just had to keep track of the time
[00:45:43] Josiah: Yeah.
[00:45:44] I don’t understand that- Well- … because the reason that you’re in superposition is because you’re unconscious. And so if you’re observ-
[00:45:51] Rebekah: No, it allows your mind to perceive superposition because of the way that it m- tricks your mind into thinking you’re unconscious. You’re not actually unconscious. It allows your mind to perceive superposition, and it only applies while you’re in the box because once you get outside of the box, this drug is still in your system, but the box was designed to open up superposition.
[00:46:13] But the drug had to be used to allow you to perceive it-
[00:46:16] Josiah: I know- …
[00:46:17] Rebekah: within only the
[00:46:17] Josiah: box … that we as a human species do not understand what consciousness is, but I don’t think that that interpretation of how you can manipulate consciousness makes any sense in the real world.
[00:46:32] Tim: It may not, but what, one of the things he explained- Well
[00:46:35] was the fact that we are always experiencing parallel universes. Mm. But our mind has to… would go crazy doing that, so we have to focus on one. The drug allows us to see what we already know is there, but our mind has said- Mm-hmm … you can’t do that ’cause it’s, it would drive you crazy.
[00:47:02] Josiah: Yeah.
[00:47:03] Tim: Mm. So i- it’s kind of strange.
[00:47:06] The, the s- science is, uh, strange. But it fits the plot.
[00:47:12] Josiah: To me, the hard… I, I think I’d be able to get behind the scientific possibility of all of these things if upon entering a new world it snaps your consciousness back into on And you just got one world per ampoule.
[00:47:36] Rebekah: I can see that. I see what you’re saying.
[00:47:38] I just- Mm-hmm. I don’t know. Me- It
[00:47:40] Josiah: makes
[00:47:40] Rebekah: kinda sense to me … quantum physicist But anyway- Excuse me … continue, continue.
[00:47:43] Josiah: Jason 2 buys Charlie nut ice cream. Charlie’s allergic. Parenthetically, I’m just telling you right now that Charlie’s allergic, but how would Jason 2 have known that?
[00:47:58] Tim: Because he never knew Charlie.
[00:48:01] Donna: We… I think it was hypothetical.
[00:48:03] Tim: No, no, I’m just saying.
[00:48:04] Josiah: Yeah.
[00:48:05] Tim: That’s the, that’s the tell.
[00:48:06] Josiah: Yeah. A near miss that feeds the prime family’s suspicion. This subplot is not in the book. This is- Mm … maybe, maybe it’s my favorite Jason 2 addition to the show.
[00:48:23] Rebekah: That’s what I was gonna say. Okay.
[00:48:25] Donna: Yep.
[00:48:26] Josiah: I, I think- Yeah … that it says something deeper about his experience.
[00:48:31] Mm-hmm. ‘Cause- Mm-hmm … I, I would say it was Daniela’s… It was Daniela 2’s choice to terminate the pregnancy that would result in Charlie in the world number two. But it was, you know, it was kind of a mutual decision based on Jason 2 saying, “I’m not gonna be a father. I, I don’t wanna be a father.”
[00:48:53] Donna: Yeah.
[00:48:53] Josiah: And now in this world- Yeah
[00:48:55] in a kind of perversion of that, his lack of earning fatherhood has led to him, uh, jeopardizing- Yeah … the life of his son, I think is a, a very effective parallel.
[00:49:12] Rebekah: Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. I think that Jason 2’s response to this also tells you a lot about who he is because even after it’s pointed out and he sees Daniela’s response and they’re at the hospital, he never seems to be…
[00:49:27] Like, he doesn’t think it was that big of a deal. He’s kind of annoyed- It was just a plot device … that they thought it was a big deal.
[00:49:31] Tim: Yeah.
[00:49:32] Rebekah: Yeah, which is wild.
[00:49:36] Tim: Yeah, that’s, that’s why they have to carry an EpiPen all the time is ’cause- Mm-hmm … it’s no big deal. Yeah.
[00:49:42] Rebekah: It like, yeah, I just, I thought that was interesting because he is aloof to what it actually takes to be a dad.
[00:49:47] All of the decisions that he, as Jason Prime, made- Yeah … in choosing to not only become a dad, but grow as a father, you know, they made Jason Prime someone who cares so much for Charlie that he would be so gutted to lose him, you know? And so the fact that Jason 2 doesn’t care, it’s, it’s because you don’t really love these people.
[00:50:07] Yeah. You have to pretend to love them because at the end of the day, you’re just trying to live a life that you’re sad you missed out on. Selfish life. You know? And I liked- Yeah, it’s all selfishness …
[00:50:17] Donna: I liked how cleverly he worked through that, and it began, he had to create more and more lie, so he has to come up with something to tell her, and so he has to- Yeah
[00:50:30] figure out, “Oh, we, well, let’s do this wild, ambitious thing that we would never have thought about before, and let’s… And I’ll get him a car, and I’ll encourage him to go after this girl-” Yeah … when he had been, you know, when Jason Prime had been like- Take your time, trying to help him be more of a gentleman rather than a little more pushy and that kind of thing.
[00:50:58] So I- Yeah … I thought it really in- I really, it really amped up the plot line for Jason too, to have to- Totally … figure out how to get around this.
[00:51:07] Tim: One of the things- Yeah … that I think it reminds us of too is, um, he did a good job of acting. There was, there was- It was written well so that the characters- Yeah.
[00:51:17] Donna: So well.
[00:51:18] Tim: Yeah … were different. But he acted it well enough that we didn’t look at it and say, “Oh, which, which one is that? Which, which one is that again?” Yep. Give us more context so we’ll know. Uh, it was obvious. It was very obvious. So
[00:51:32] Rebekah: it was well acted. That, I think I made a comment of that to Josh at one point, ’cause I thought, “How…
[00:51:38] Wait, how did you manage to make it so that,” I think even without the little scar on his nose or whatever to just differentiate Jason Prime, I don’t think I would’ve had a very hard time telling them apart.
[00:51:50] Tim: Yeah.
[00:51:51] Rebekah: Like, I, it was obvious. Mm-hmm. And so yeah, very fantastic job- Yeah … from that.
[00:51:56] Tim: Another thing was, uh, the twin.
[00:51:59] Uh- Oh, yeah … Max the twin. Charlie was a twin, and Maximilian died young. There was a heart problem. Uh, in the book, Charlie is an only child. There’s just, there’s no Max at all.
[00:52:16] Josiah: Mm-hmm.
[00:52:16] Tim: So, uh, Charlie’s an only child. But in the show, they added Charlie as a twin. Yeah. Which if you’re thinking of a season two, maybe there’s some additional, uh, stuff you’re thinking- Mm-hmm
[00:52:31] of with a twin
[00:52:32] Donna: that
[00:52:33] Tim: lives- One of the worlds you have
[00:52:33] Donna: Max.
[00:52:34] Tim: Yeah, and- Yeah … well, one of the worlds, one of the worlds, um-
[00:52:38] Donna: He mistook Charlie for… He took m- he thought Max was Charlie.
[00:52:42] Tim: Yeah. Yeah. One of the twins was… Yeah, he said- Like they flipped it … “You’re thinking of your favorite child.” Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[00:52:47] Rebekah: But in that, in that world, Max was alive and Charlie was not, right?
[00:52:52] ‘Cause it was his fault that something happened to Charlie. Right. Like, they got-
[00:52:55] Tim: Right.
[00:52:55] Rebekah: Like, so- It was an accident of some sort … they weren’t both alive in any of the worlds- Yeah … he visited.
[00:52:59] Tim: And I thought-
[00:53:00] Rebekah: I wonder-
[00:53:00] Tim: I thought one of them was a boy and a girl, but maybe-
[00:53:04] Rebekah: That’s possible … somebody else- I don’t remember for sure
[00:53:06] Tim: adding something in there as well.
[00:53:08] Rebekah: You know, one reason they could have added that in, Charlie’s the one that chose the world that they go into at the end of the season. Yes. And at the end of the book. It is. And so it’s, I wonder if it’s something where, like, he could wish for that, which would create all sorts of other issues because that would mean that Daniella and Jason both exist in that world.
[00:53:27] You know what I mean? So…
[00:53:28] Tim: Yeah.
[00:53:29] Rebekah: Okay. I like that in the show they add the one where she’s, like, a gallery curator. She’s blonde. Mm-hmm. It’s that one, and he, they’ve never met. Like, they have no connection whatsoever. Right. This is, she’s- And he tries to ask her out …
[00:53:40] Tim: she’s just working.
[00:53:40] Josiah: Yeah.
[00:53:41] Rebekah: And I think that that was also in the book, right?
[00:53:43] It is. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, I liked that they included that.
[00:53:47] Josiah: Well, Daniella, we’ve talked a lot about Daniella. I think there’s a lot of examples of her- I, I see a purposeful hand from the showrunner and from maybe Apple TV people, maybe from the writer’s room. But I, I see the invisible hand of the writer giving Daniella more opportunities to make choices, to have more agency.
[00:54:12] The show- Mm-hmm … or the book especially, it hinges on being a story about a man whose motivation is a woman who sometimes dies to motivate him. Uh, some- sometimes in the book- Yeah … it’s a little dehumanizing how Daniella might be treated. This is, this is me going, I’m, you know, I’m reading The Feminist Odyssey, so I’ve got this, this feminism on the mind.
[00:54:36] Oh, that’s
[00:54:36] Rebekah: true. You are reading The Feminist Odyssey. She’s
[00:54:38] Tim: always a pawn.
[00:54:40] Josiah: Yes. She’s always an, a prop for Jason. So in the sh- uh, and not always. It’s actually not that bad. She just has sometimes when choices are made for her, and in the show I- Mm … I feel the effort to- Yeah … give her more agency, to let her choose more often.
[00:54:57] Uh, in the middle of the show she has a little more to do. Uh, she voices suspicions about Jason, uh, Jason 2, to her friend and to Ryan. She breaks in… I feel like probably one of the biggest little subplots is that she breaks into the storage unit that Jason 2 secretly has. Mm-hmm. Pulls an empty- That was wild.
[00:55:22] Yeah. She gets an empty ampoule that she has Ryan sequence, which I believe that directly leads to Jason 2 abandoning Ryan in an alternate universe. So I think Daniella got Ryan abandoned. In the book- Thank you, Ryan … Daniella’s doubts stay internal. We’re not in her head very often. It’s interesting when we are.
[00:55:50] Mm-hmm. I love those sort of, oh, you s- surprise cut to the wife’s inner monologue. You ever seen Goodfellas?
[00:55:56] Donna: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:55:57] Rebekah: I have not.
[00:55:58] Josiah: It’s one of my favorite moments. Maybe a
[00:55:59] Donna: long time ago. Maybe a long time ago.
[00:56:01] Josiah: You probably spend 45, 50 minutes in Ray Liotta’s head. He’s narrating, and then he finally runs into his future wife, and it’s like, “
[00:56:11] Donna: Ee, ee, ee,
[00:56:12] Josiah: ee.
[00:56:13] Here’s my side of the story.” That’s not exactly how it goes, but she starts narrating for part of it. I was like, oh- Yeah … we get to see all the different perspectives. That’s interesting to me.
[00:56:25] Rebekah: I, I enjoyed the time in Daniella’s hob- head, the little bit that we got it. Um, I think Daniella’s m- a little more interesting in the book, if I’m honest.
[00:56:35] She does more in the show, but I think that she’s a little more, I’m gonna call her based. She’s a little more, like, committed to her ideals in the book.
[00:56:45] Donna: Yeah.
[00:56:47] Rebekah: Very ruthlessly in an interesting way, and I think that getting into her head in the book was just an interesting way to see that. Although I did like what we ta- you know, what you just mentioned, like that she goes to the storage unit and stuff.
[00:56:58] So I thought that was interesting.
[00:57:01] Josiah: There was also, we, we’ve touched, we’ve, we’ve circled around it over and over again, but, but the big twist- Mm-hmm … in the last act of the book, I think it’s the last three chapters, I think it’s the last two episodes- Mm … whenever Jason Prime finally makes it back to his world Obviously, in hindsight, there are dozens and dozens of identical Jasons- Yeah
[00:57:28] who were going on a, the same box journey through the multiverse, who have all made it back, who their lives diverged, like, a month prior. And so in the show, you get identical Jasons making identical moves, such as buying gear, going to the gun store and getting talked to by the, by the lady. In the book, there is not necessarily visual doubling, uh, as we’re in Jason Prime’s point of view.
[00:58:01] Yeah. But, uh, copies obviously exist. I think that if I’m remembering correctly, there’s a chat. This is how the- Mm-hmm … both show and book Jason- In the book … figures out that- Mm-hmm … there’s a bunch. He knows that there’s a few. He sees, let’s call him Jason 3, in the bar. But in the… He finds a chat, and I think that in the book he finds the chat early, and then he- Mm-hmm
[00:58:32] revisits it. A little bit,
[00:58:33] Tim: yeah,
[00:58:33] Josiah: I think so. And then he revisits it. Yeah. But the revisiting in the book, they move that to be the only, the, the first time he finds it. So in the, in the- Mm-hmm … book, I think he’s, like, Jason 7 or something like… He’s pretty low down. Uh,
[00:58:48] Donna: yeah, seven or nine, it’s one of those.
[00:58:50] Yeah.
[00:58:50] Josiah: And-
[00:58:50] Rebekah: I thought he was, like, 72,
[00:58:52] Josiah: but that’s fine. In the m- the show- I don’t remember for sure … he’s Jason 72, because he doesn’t find it early.
[00:58:58] Tim: I think you’re right, he’s seven, and I was thinking, I was thinking either he started it or he was really early getting into it.
[00:59:08] Donna: Yeah.
[00:59:09] Josiah: In the book-
[00:59:09] Donna: Yeah, I thought this was great.
[00:59:11] Mm-hmm. Uh, uh, I think that, um, it made… They, it, it increased the intensity at the end, like… Uh, it, you know, the, it just was a constant, every time you turned around there was another one, and they continued. But I also got that from the book- Yeah … even though it’s a little, come a- comes across different. It was also intense in the book as well, and I, I remember- But I will say-
[00:59:35] liking that …
[00:59:36] Tim: I wondered if it was… Uh, I think when I, when I read it, I was thinking Josiah would think this is a deus ex machina. Oh, no, suddenly we realize later on that there are, every time they exit into a world, he splits into another Jason, um-
[00:59:59] Josiah: Well, deus ex machina is-
[01:00:01] Tim: To feed the plot …
[01:00:03] Josiah: is more about solving a problem unsatisfyingly
[01:00:08] Tim: I guess this is the
[01:00:10] Josiah: other direction This is the other direction.
[01:00:10] And I, I think honestly it’s a great twist ’cause it was set up. You’re talking about the multiverse- Mm-hmm … and then no one thinks, oh, I’m creating new multiverses. But no, within the logic you- Yeah … set at the beginning of the show, of the book- Yeah … yeah, this makes perfect sense. No, this is a, this is a great twist.
[01:00:29] In fact, my-
[01:00:30] Rebekah: He’s Jason Nine in the book …
[01:00:32] Josiah: Jason Nine.
[01:00:33] Tim: Jason
[01:00:33] Josiah: Nine. There you go. One of the things I, I, I don’t wanna say I didn’t like, it bummed me out as soon as I realized that. I was like, “Oh, but all of these other Jasons that are now the antagonistic force are the same Jason that we started the book with.”
[01:00:55] Yeah. I don’t want them not to- It’s
[01:00:56] Rebekah: a little heart-wrenching …
[01:00:57] Josiah: I don’t want them to not have Daniella. And the book I think handled it a little better- Yeah … than the show did for me.
[01:01:05] Rebekah: So another thing that they change is just the beats of the way that the reunion works, um- Mm-hmm … of Jason Prime to Daniella and Ch- Charlie.
[01:01:15] Um, in the show he gets arrested, which does happen in both. Uh, Daniella bails him out. They make a safe word- Mm-hmm … which is the word Jupiter, and then she shoves Jason 2 down the basement stairs. She gets a little violent too, and then they meet at The Bean in Chicago. And I think… Is that where they meet with Charlie?
[01:01:32] Yes. Is like he’s at The Bean. Yeah. So in the book they do the same arrest and bail thing, but essentially they never physically encounter Jason 2 again until-
[01:01:41] Donna: Right …
[01:01:41] Rebekah: the e- like the big climactic stuff at the end. So- Right … I thought that it was a little more interesting in the show for a visual medium. I didn’t, like- Mm-hmm
[01:01:50] hate it in the other one or anything, but it was interesting in both.
[01:01:54] Tim: I think it makes sense that they never separate again. It makes a lot- Sure … less sense that once they’ve found, once he has found them That he would never let them out of his sight. I, I, I think- Yeah … the show version was more dramatic and raised the tension, but I think it was less logical.
[01:02:18] Mm-hmm. So.
[01:02:19] Rebekah: That’s fair, honestly. Yeah.
[01:02:21] Tim: The… There’s a lot more with Daniella choosing, as Josiah said before. Um, she’s torn between the many married Jason Prime A through triple A- Zillion … you know, quadruple A. Um, she’s even unsure, you know, even with the safe word.
[01:02:45] Josiah: Mm-hmm.
[01:02:45] Tim: In the book, she trusts her Jason almost immediately because they found each other.
[01:02:51] Yeah. Um, so that’s a, that’s a really nice way to put it, but it does kind of disregard this new- Mm-hmm … twist- Yeah … with all of the Jasons that are actually Jason Prime plus.
[01:03:08] Donna: Yeah.
[01:03:09] Tim: You know? So.
[01:03:11] Josiah: I love in the book that Daniella says this thing about, she’s trying to decide, “How do I choose?” Mm. And she says something along the lines of, “You know what?
[01:03:25] There were all of these other parallel universes of when we met. When we met, the situation was exactly right. It was random, and it was you meeting me at the exact time- Mm … in the exact right place. And you know what? That happened again with this version of you, so I’m choosing you.” Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think that that is supported by the blonde Daniella.
[01:03:52] It’s like she didn’t- Mm. Mm … she didn’t say yes to the- Yeah … asking of the date ’cause it wasn’t the right time. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So-
[01:03:59] Rebekah: Yep …
[01:04:00] Josiah: I think that it was still okay in the show. It wasn’t the strongest. I don’t think it was as strong. I was n- left unsatisfied with the show’s reasoning for Daniella- Mm
[01:04:13] choosing how she chose. Uh, but the, the ending, uh, in the show, Jason 2 has a change of heart and kills the vengeful, uh, Jason 3. I don’t… I’m so sorry, guys. I don’t know that it’s Jason 3 in the show. I looked for it when we were all watching it together. Sure. I don’t think he has the head scar. In the book- Mm
[01:04:31] it is Jason 3 who tells him to give him his clothes. Yeah. In the show, I don’t think he has the scar on his head. Uh, but it’s kind- Yeah … it’s basically one of the other Jasons. Uh, Jason 2 hands- Yeah … Show family the box of 40-plus ampules, uh, returns the ring- Mm … and, uh, gives them Max’s ashes or something like that, and he’s left behind alive.
[01:04:57] Mm. I actually prefer Jason 2’s ending in the show. In the book, Jason Prime kills Jason 2. Um- Yeah … Charlie… At the, at the very ending they go in the box, the three of them, and Charlie picks the door in both.
[01:05:10] Rebekah: Yeah.
[01:05:10] Josiah: I think I preferred Jason 2- Mm … surviving because he’s J- he’s still Jason, and I think that there is redemption to be had of, “I was completely wrong, and I’m so sorry.”
[01:05:22] Rebekah: I don’t know. I, I like that he dies in the book. I think, I understand- Of course you do … the redemption angle. I see what… Of course I do. I see what you’re saying with the redemption angle. It’s not a bad thing, but I just felt like it was… Like, what would you actually do with all of that stuff? Like, I don’t know.
[01:05:40] Mm. It comes down to me- It’s hard … where it almost just feels like he’s protecting his family. This man literally tried to tear his family apart for his own selfish ambition to, to get it, so. I mean, I like the redemption in the show. I think maybe it’s more powerful. Yeah. But it didn’t, like, bother me that he ended up killing him in the, in the book.
[01:05:58] Um, real quick, I will say to wrap it up, there’s a s- tease for season two, which is coming out August 2026- Mm-hmm. We’ll get there … which I, I think is an interesting thing. It is. Uh, in the show we see Ryan One, who remember, his prime, whatever, has been thrust- Mm-hmm … into another world. He made ampules. He finds Amanda because ding, ding, ding, they end up in the same world, which I thought was really interesting.
[01:06:27] Uh, Blair then braves the box again. The, it was B- Blair Two- Mm-hmm … I think, because it was the scared one, not the one that- Yes, scared Blair. Mm-hmm … uh, was just the lawyer. And then you see Leighton continuing to explore the multiverse. So none of that’s in the book. It’s a single book. Yeah. Standalone, no sequels, and, uh, I think the book stands alone well.
[01:06:46] But yeah, it was interesting. But
[01:06:47] Donna: he could pick up from them walking, from them just having Charlie pick another world. It, it’s possible- Sure … that he goes on. I don’t know what the point would be, because it was a good standalone book. So I agree with Josiah- They go to heaven … that it’s not needed, but he could just walk on.
[01:07:01] Yeah, for sure.
[01:07:03] Rebekah: Yeah.
[01:07:03] Donna: Let’s look at this by the numbers The book released on July 26th, 2016. The movie released on May 8th, well movie series released on May 8th, 2024. Uh, book ratings. On Goodreads this novel has 4.13 out of five, and on StoryGraph it has 4.08 out of five. Uh, the Rotten Tomatoes critics, uh, Tomato meter is 81%, and then, uh, it has an IMDb rating of 7.6 out of 10.
[01:07:44] So IMDb not quite as favorable to it, not too far below it. And then the Popcorn meter, the audience score, goes back up to 80. Um, I, I liked that. I’m not, uh, I’m not disappointed with that. I th- I think I like those scores. Um, the rating on Apple TV is, is MA. It’s mature audiences.
[01:08:05] Rebekah: Uh, now that we are ready to give final verdicts, uh, I can do mine first.
[01:08:10] I really enjoyed both book and f- uh, TV show. I would say I put the book over the show. Uh, I’d probably give the book, I think I rated it a four out of five, but I’d probably give it, like, an eight and a half. I really enjoyed it, um, out of 10. And then, like, when I was originally rating, I gave it four out of five out of, or four out of five total, you know.
[01:08:31] So, uh, I’d give it an eight and a half out of 10, and I think the show for me was, like, probably seven, seven and a half. It was good. I found myself a little bit, like, “Okay, what is happening?” I, I had a little bit of trouble getting through the second half of the season. Um, thought they did a great job adapting, love that the writer was so involved, and I think that that had a good effect, so.
[01:08:57] Josiah: That’s so interesting. I, I totally validate your opinion, and I, I also think the first half of the show was what was tough for me to get through. I did not understand- Yeah … what the show was about. First of all, I think a little bit of it’s on me. I feel a little dumb that I did not realize there was a Jason 2 until the end of episode two.
[01:09:20] I was still clinging- Mm. Mm … to this belief. I was like, “Okay, obviously he’s switching back and forth, the same Jason between this world and that world.” And I was like, “Well, it’s kind of weird that he’s not acknowledging it. He’s not in his normal world.” Mm-hmm. He’s not telling anyone- Yeah … ‘Hey, this crazy thing keeps happening to me.’
[01:09:39] But I just kept going along believing the wrong thing. But I also I, I didn’t understand for… Well, the fun and games of the story is Amanda and Jason Prime going to the alternate universes, and you don’t get to that until- Mm … maybe episode four, maybe episode three, but I feel like it’s episode four out of nine when-
[01:10:07] Donna: When it ramps up, yeah.
[01:10:08] Josiah: And that’s, that’s kind of the, okay, let’s iterate on this a few times. So I think that there were great things about the book. I think there were great things about the movie. I mean, the show, the book is better than the show perhaps. I really liked Daniela in the book saying about why she’s choosing the Jason Prime and not the other Jasons, and I think that has a lot to do with the themes of the book.
[01:10:37] But at the same time, I don’t like that Jason 2 got murdered in the book-
[01:10:45] Rebekah: Yeah …
[01:10:45] Josiah: which I think has a lot to do with the themes of the story. So both of them for me are, um, really close. I think that the book I’ll give an 8.3. And the show I will give an 8 point-
[01:11:19] Tim: That close,
[01:11:20] Josiah: huh? Hmm. Wow, I’m trying to think.
[01:11:23] Did I like the book? There’s just things that the book did great, and there’s things that the show did great.
[01:11:29] Donna: Yeah.
[01:11:31] Josiah: Jupiter’s not in the book, is it?
[01:11:34] Tim: It is not.
[01:11:34] Donna: No, they don’t have a safe word. I think- And that was so clever. It was very clever. Mm. The story about going to the cottage and fooling Jason 2 like that is, is in both.
[01:11:46] Josiah: But then the show has Blair. It’s just like you take a tr- one trade off for another …
[01:11:52] Donna: and Jane and whatever that other girl’s name was.
[01:11:54] Josiah: But then the show does Amanda great. So I- Mm-hmm … I think that both of them are just 8.3 to me, and- Oh … I, I guess- We could have a talk … it’s… I’m trying to, like, clamp down on one thing or another.
[01:12:12] I guess the I think the book. I think the book edges it out. Mm-hmm. The structure of the chapters I think was better paced than the structure of the episodes. Hmm. Yep. I’m gonna, I’m gonna edge it out to the book. The book is actually 8.4 and the show is 8.3.
[01:12:36] Donna: Yes.
[01:12:36] Rebekah: Perfect.
[01:12:38] Donna: Uh, I enjoyed reading the book. It kept me engaged.
[01:12:41] It kept me wanting… I, I have to listen in, in pieces and parts, which that’s any, in, any of us. But, um, typically I would listen mostly in the morning, and then throughout the week I might find some other times I could listen for, for pieces of it, and I found myself wanting to get back to it. Um, so that’s good for me.
[01:13:03] I, it, it engaged me. I liked the, uh, way that they replicated many short parts of the book straight into the series. That was v- I don’t know if I’m a immature observer or what I am, but I liked that. Um, I know that you can’t literally put every line of the book into the f- into the series. I, I get that. But I liked, I thought what they used like that was very clever.
[01:13:36] Uh, it was meaningful. It connected me to having read this book, and I could put a name and a face together. That’s really important to me to, to kind of be able to visualize a person. W- who are they? What, you know, what’s their appearance? What’s their character in flesh that I can see versus what I’m reading on the page?
[01:13:59] Um, I, I’d give both of them, uh, I’d say I’d give both of them an eight. Um, I like the genre. Uh, I liked, I liked the series. Um, I don’t know if one part of it was good or bad for me. Like, if I thought, uh, I- the first part was… Yeah, I guess that’s not true, is it? The first part was really engaging to me because I could see so many parallels with what I had just been reading.
[01:14:32] Um, and then the farther they got in and added some things, I could see why they added them. I think the additions were interesting, the additional worlds and the way they played off, off things, um, was interesting. But, um, I- I think I would say the series… See, I’m gonna flip with you. I think I’d, I’d say the series was 8.2 and the book was 8.
[01:15:01] Um, I think having the visual in front of me that I could put, put those faces on those characters was good. Um, I, I, I di- I don’t think I had a real big disagreement with anything any of you said, which a lot of times I’ll have something in there, I’m like, “No, there’s no way that could be right.” Um, but I’m glad we did this and, and, uh, I’m excited to s- to see season two and see what it’ll be like, so.
[01:15:28] Tim: So does that leave me?
[01:15:30] Donna: It leaves you.
[01:15:30] Tim: Rebecca went first. Okay. Well, I’m gonna blow the whole thing up.
[01:15:36] Donna: Do it.
[01:15:37] Tim: Um-
[01:15:37] Donna: You hate Ryan.
[01:15:38] Tim: No. I don’t care for the actor that plays the lead.
[01:15:44] Donna: Hmm.
[01:15:44] Tim: I don’t, I don’t think he’s- Wow. I don’t think he looks like the part of s- of someone that would, that would be- Mm-hmm … the main character.
[01:15:57] He’s the friend or the s- the villain in-
[01:16:01] Donna: He’s the supporter …
[01:16:01] Tim: the way he looks. Mm-hmm. It’s all about the way he looks. But I, I commend the fact that he, as an actor, he played all of the- Yeah … different Jasons well, very well. Um, so I have, I have this strange thing there, and I would I would give the book an 8.5 and the show an 8.4, and here’s why.
[01:16:31] I was completely turned off every moment that the lady was there. Was that, is that the- Dawn? … guard woman. The guard- Dawn, is that right? … or the lady with the white- The shooter. The- The shooter … shoot first. I-
[01:16:48] Donna: Dawn.
[01:16:49] Tim: Every moment she was on the screen was a waste.
[01:16:52] Donna: Anytime she would come on, he’d be like, “Oh, my G- not her
[01:16:55] Tim: again.”
[01:16:56] Just, just get her off the screen. Use one of the other guys. Do something else. But she, she
[01:17:01] Donna: was- Casting, casting, casting …
[01:17:02] Tim: completely wrong to me. Mm-hmm. Every other person in the cast I could be fine with. Um, just didn’t, just didn’t care for her at all. So I would, I would give the book 8.5, and I would give the show an 8.3.
[01:17:17] I think it’s very well done. They, they put money into it, uh, in good places. I noticed in our chart that part of the reason that, um, I think The Morning Show is the one, uh-
[01:17:30] Donna: Mm-hmm …
[01:17:30] Tim: part of the reason that its budget is so high is because of the two million plus, uh, salaries for big- Yeah … names. So I fully- Mm-hmm
[01:17:43] understand why I recognized these actors, but not in top lead roles. Yeah. I recognize their faces from other things. Um, but I understand why. If you can do it with actors that don’t cost as much, and they’re still good actors, then you can do this kind of a thing. So I enjoyed it. It was a good read. It was a good, uh, series to watch.
[01:18:13] Um, it was, it was an enjoyable thing to do. So congrats. I, I do look- Mm … forward to season two, and I look forward to what they might be able to do with the alternate worlds, um, with The three, mom, dad, and son, or additional son, or even the alternate people, so.
[01:18:36] Rebekah: All right. Well, that has been our episode on Dark Matter.
[01:18:39] Uh, we appreciate you listening. We appreciate you leaving a five-star rating or review. We appreciate you leaving any review, and we will read it, but, um, you know, if you can’t say anything nice, then don’t say anything at all or something. Uh, you can support us on Patreon if you want additional bonus content and to chat with the hosts more.
[01:19:00] You can find us on social everywhere at bookisbetterpod, and we currently have a Discord. Maybe that’ll change. Maybe it won’t. You don’t know. Nobody knows. Who knows? Everything is vanity. All is vanity. I’m just kidding. Um, thanks for listening and, uh, until next time, um, I can’t think of anything clever to say.
[01:19:20] Bye. Follow
[01:19:22] Tim: your path and enjoy it.
[01:19:24] Rebekah: Oh. Have no regrets. Bye-bye.
[01:19:39] Josiah: Here’s a signal for if you don’t realize that you’re low energy, but we’re just, like, silently encouraging you- Okay … to go low energy. Here’s the sign.
[01:19:46] Donna: Ah, ah, ah.
[01:19:47] Rebekah: To go low energy?
[01:19:48] Josiah: No, to go high energy.
[01:19:50] Rebekah: To go high energy. Okay. Got it. Oh my
[01:19:52] Josiah: gosh.
[01:19:52] Rebekah: Ah, ah, ah. That’s a really subtle sign. Yeah. That’s subtle. I think subtlety is-
[01:19:57] Josiah: Wait, maybe I’ll just make the noise, not draw attention to myself.
[01:20:00] Mm, mm, mm.