S02E12 — Howl’s Moving Castle

SPOILER ALERT: This episode and transcript below contains major spoilers for Howl’s Moving Castle.

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Featuring hosts Timothy Haynes, Donna Haynes, Rebekah Edwards, and T. Josiah Haynes.

We have a super special guest with us this week to talk about one of his favorite movies. Introducing… Nathan! He’s here to guide us through all the ins and outs—especially if he “remembers correctly” (We love you, Nathan!). Even though some of the characters can be total jerks at times, this book/movie departure was a fun step into the whimsical world created Diana Jones.

Final Verdicts

If you haven’t listened to the episode yet, we recommend waiting to read our verdicts. (But you’re probably grown, so do what you want!)

The Howl’s Moving Castle book is a chaotic, whimsical adventure full of sass, self-discovery, and magical logic that barely holds itself together — and we kind of loved it for that. The movie is stunning, emotional, and full of Miyazaki’s anti-war vision, but after a year of waiting… it left us wondering if the screenwriter even read the book.

Tim: The book was better.
– Book Score: 5/10
– Movie Score 6.5/10

Donna: The movie was better.
– Book Score: 5/10
– Movie Score 7.5/10

Rebekah: The book was better.
– Book Score: 5/10
– Movie Score: 4.5/10

Josiah: The movie was better.
– Book Score: 5/10
– Movie Score: 6.5/10

Nathan: The movie was better.
– Book Score: 5.5/10
– Movie Score: 9.5/10

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Full Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Rebekah: Hey, welcome to the book is Better Podcast. Hey, we are a family of four plus one son plus one, uh, today, and we like to review book to film adaptations. So this is a pretty clean podcast, but, uh, you know, our general rule is if you wouldn’t let your kids read the book or watch the movie, then probably don’t listen to the episode with them.

But, uh, we’ll keep it clean. Spoiler warning for this episode, we will be spoiling, uh, how’s Moving Castle, both the film and the book from 1986. Uh, we will probably also do some spoilers from both the Trilogy, sequel, and third book. So if you don’t wanna know what’s coming in those, you know, shut your ears, I guess.

Surprise 

[00:00:43] Josiah: to me. 

[00:00:44] Rebekah: So I didn’t know they had se sequels.

[00:00:47] Josiah: No, that was great. 

[00:00:48] Rebekah: Oh, you’ll find out why you didn’t know that they had sequels later. Uh, so today’s we introduce ourselves. We like to tell you our name and then a little fun fact about us. Uh, today’s fun fact with which character in Howell’s moving Castle do you most closely associate Also, what is your favorite flower?

So, uh, guest, would you like to kick us off with your name and answers to the Fun fact? 

[00:01:10] Nathan: Yeah. Uh, my name is Nathan, so I’m the guest slash found family son slash found family grandson. Does that work? Slash nephew? Yeah. And nephew. Oh, nephew. Uh, wow. You were, there’s just so many, I’m just full of titles. So out of it, which character and how’s Movement Castle do I closely associate with?

Uh, probably the given, which is why, like, I’m the guest I associate with Hal probably the most. I’ve been back and forth. I’ve even associated with Sophie the most, but right now it’s Hal just kind of like, it’s been life where he’s a bit of a coward, but he has a good heart in the end and he pushes and works hard.

And one of the book quotes, he likes spiders because it’s, if at first you don’t succeed, try, try, try. And I actually really love that quote. And then what’s my favorite flower? Uh, the dianthus for no other reason than they smell the best. 

[00:02:00] Donna: Very cool. I am Donna. I’m the wife and mom of our Hmm. Castle and Grandma.

No diapers changed. Yeah, so I think I probably associate with Caler some because he’s, well, one, the, the movie he’s, he is definitely the comic relief and I do like to make people laugh, but also. His heart. He is heart. And so I, I, I like that about him. So I’m gonna say Casper. That’s adorable. 

[00:02:36] Josiah: Yeah. I’m Josiah.

I am the brother, son found family uncle of this fortress. And I, I guess we, uh, we can do caler. He’s always complaining about things and he is funny, but he still does like a good job. He’s a part of the team. Even though sometimes he’s cynical, sometimes he is, you know, not having it. He’s sometimes he genuinely does not like the people that he’s with, but I don’t know, he always does his job well.

Is that true about Caler? 

[00:03:09] Donna: Yeah, I mean, he tries, 

[00:03:11] Josiah: okay. He makes the castle walk right. 

[00:03:14] Tim: Yeah. Yeah. Well, my name is Tim. I am the husband, dad. Grand, whatever we want to call that grandfather. Um, the character initially, I would say Sophie, but I thought since somebody else had chosen that already, I would also identify with tourniquet.

Ooh. Always trying to do the right thing and nobody understands. And he’s 

[00:03:36] Donna: actually a handsome prince. Aw. 

[00:03:39] Tim: And my favorite flower, I have always 

[00:03:42] Josiah: loved roses, red roses. My favorite flower is the Rhododendron, only because it was the West Virginia State flower. And when I was a kid, we learned that. And I really liked saying rhododendron.

I 

[00:03:52] Rebekah: don’t know that I like, have an answer to this question. Can I be one of, what is your name? Her? Very confused. Oh. My name is Rebecca. She’s very, she’s very confused. 

[00:04:04] Nathan: That’s 

[00:04:04] Rebekah: really, I’m the daughter, sister, mom of the podcast now. But I, gosh, I can I be one of her confused sisters? That’s the character I identify with.

That’s like, what’s happening? Why is any of this happening? That’s how I feel. 

[00:04:19] Nathan: Well. Mm-hmm. If you’re saying about that, I think I was gonna say probably one of the sisters, and I think it’s the youngest who like has everything under control, who like gets trained by the the witch and like is like, yeah, I’m just gonna do my own thing.

We’re gonna go ahead, do all that. That one, yeah. I think that one, I think it’s Leddy. Yeah. ’cause they included the movie, but not in the leddy then including the, yeah. In the movie and something like that. 

[00:04:45] Rebekah: I think I keep Nathan around partly because he says things like, you have it all together. I love it.

Also, I thought you would 

[00:04:52] Donna: say Madam Suleman because she’s the evil lady, pretty controlled. No, because she’s totally in control of stuff and if something’s not going the way she wants. Who cares what everybody else thinks. This is what I want. So get over there and do that. I mean, I can see that, and she’s say that in a loving way, unfortunately.

I 

[00:05:07] Rebekah: feel like, yeah. I feel like when something doesn’t go the way she wants, she bombs it. Oh. So I don’t know if that’s what I wanna identify with. Exactly. I don’t know. All right. Well, Nathan slash Howell Pendragon, why don’t you kick us off with a summary of the plot of this story so we know what the heck is going 

[00:05:26] Nathan: on.

Yes, ma’am. Howell’s moving castle tells the story of Sophie, a young woman cursed by a powerful witch to become an old woman. She leaves her quiet life behind and finds refuge in the magical castle of the mysterious and self-centered wizard Howl. There she strikes a bargain with caler, a fire demon, bound to howl by a magical contract.

If Sophie can break his curse, haler will break hers. As she settles into the castle, Sophie becomes entangled in. Hal’s strange and secretive world, uncovers hidden truths about his heart and discovers strength and magic of her own. Once an old, weak woman, after being cursed by the witch of the waist, Sophie plays a vital role in rescuing Hal’s heart.

A heavy burden indeed. 

[00:06:06] Tim: Aw, that sounds so wonderful. 

[00:06:11] Rebekah: Okay, so let’s talk about the differences between this book and film, of which there are many. We’re gonna start this week with characters. Uh, a lot of what we cover in characters. We’ll actually cover some plot stuff, and then we’ll go into some setting changes and then get to plot and timeline last.

So I’ll kick us off with talking about Sophie herself. So in the novel, Sophie’s the oldest of three sisters. Her two younger sisters are Letty and Martha. And she has a kind stepmother, I mean kind with like an asterisk on it, I think named Fannie. The film reduces her family to just one sister, Letty and portrays Fannie as her mother.

[00:06:51] Nathan: I will say in the movie. They mix up the looks of Martha with the name of Letty. That is a really combine them 

[00:07:00] Josiah: almost. I really, really hope that every platform, every change we go through, Nathan says, I’ll say, well, actually, well actually, the book heavily emphasizes Sophie’s belief in a. Fairytale superstition that being the eldest child means she’s doomed to fail, feeding her low self-esteem.

But this theme is omitted from the film, say for a brief mention in her, uh, first scene working in the shop, which I do think sets it up as part of her Yeah. Subconscious. But in the book it is. Constantly re-brought up. 

[00:07:35] Donna: It’s more significant, I would say. Well book Sophie possesses latent magic. She can bring objects to life by talking to them, which she does unknowing by unknowingly enchanting hats in the shop.

In the film, Sophie shows no overt magical powers, effectively reducing her from a budding sorceress to a more ordinary young woman. However, there is a hint of Sophie’s magic with words in the movie when her appearance transitions from young to old and back and forth, somewhat based on her affection for how expressed aloud.

And I did find this interesting. Now, I’ve watched the movie three times and I wanted to know once I got. Done with it the first time. Okay. It was not a mistake of the animators that she’s looking young and old and back and forth. Mm-hmm. And she’s heavier and she’s smaller. And so I kind of, one of the reasons I wanted to see it again was to kind pick that apart.

And I like the fact that they start her out looking kind of ddy and just homely. Not, I don’t even think ugly, but compared to the mom that you see when the mom comes in and, and you see the sisters, they’re all kind of cutesy and whatever. So I liked, I liked the way he did that. 

[00:08:48] Rebekah: She’s also really thin, I believe, right?

Yeah. She becomes a thin old woman mm-hmm. In the book as she was as a child. Mm-hmm. And in the movie, she’s like kind of plumped when she’s an old woman. I 

[00:08:59] Josiah: liked her version. 

[00:08:59] Rebekah: I think it was way better visually in the movie to do it that way. 

[00:09:03] Tim: I found this choice interesting because I actually did look up the, the second and third books, uh, and the third book says.

It’s about the powerful sorcerers Sophie. And so in this version, in, in the movie, she really isn’t that. So it’s kind of like, it doesn’t set it up to do a sequel. Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:22] Nathan: If I remember correctly, with Sophie’s Curse in the movie, you see her go back from old to young because it’s like an expression of her building confidence.

She looks younger and like, like standing straighter as like an older woman. Whenever she finds the confidence and you see that like in a lot of the moments where like she’s more comfortable with how, or like she’s more confident with the spurts of energy she, energy she gets while cleaning in the book.

If I remember correctly, it’s interesting because it says at the end where the curse isn’t even from the witch of the waste. Towards the end of the book, she’s like still speaking it over herself because that’s her magic. Mm-hmm. She speaks it and so she’s like still placing the curse on herself and she like in the end almost chooses to stay old.

[00:10:05] Rebekah: Yeah, I do. I will say the one thing with like her power of words or whatever, I thought in the book, this is a book only thing, I think, but I loved that she sewed howl, like a suit that made him irresistible to women, but she did it because she was thinking about that while making this. Suit. She didn’t do it on purpose, but she was like saying stuff about that, and then she tried really hard to get him to stop wearing it, and it was such an adorable plot point.

[00:10:29] Nathan: Oh yeah, both versions have Sophie under a spell that turns her into an old woman. As we’ve mentioned with Sophie’s curse, it is said that she’s unable to speak about it to anyone in the book. Sophie is explicitly unable to tell anyone about it, stopped by the curse itself. Film Sophie is said to have the same condition, even having the iconic scene where her lips are magically sealed.

But throughout the movie, she speaks more freely hinting at the curse to others, and even regains her youthful appearance at times when she feels confident or in love, which doesn’t happen in the novel. 

[00:10:59] Rebekah: So overall, we see the film softens Sophie’s character. She’s less feisty or prone to jealousy than she’s in the book, and her role shifts towards being a lovable, I would say, relatable, romantic partner who inspires Hal’s compassion.

Whereas the novel, Sophie’s a little bit more proactive. She takes charge of his household, uses her wits to solve problems, and realizes her own magical powers. Like significantly by the end. So let’s talk about the other main character, wizard Howell. Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:27] Josiah: AKA Howell Jenkins. 

[00:11:30] Nathan: How Jenkins Pen Dragon in the novel.

Howell is secretly a Welshman named How Jenkins Pendragon spelled H-O-W-E-L-L from Modern Day Wales. A location completely absent from the films for the record, because this is funny how is literally just a PhD student from Wales who is writing his dissertation on magic, which is hilarious because he just gets bored of school and he’s like studying magic.

So he just creates a portal to Ry and just like, yeah, I’m out, I’m leaving. He was like a college student who like played rugby. Like it mentions in the book that he has like a rugby jacket. It’s not some fancy suit. It’s like a rugby jacket got bored, but he’s just a PhD student who decided to get bored and leave.

[00:12:10] Tim: Yeah, that’s, that is an interesting part that you get in the book, but you don’t get in, you don’t get in the movie at all. Mm-hmm. The book’s, how uses multiple aliases, such as Wizard Jenkins and Wizard Pin Dragon, and is notorious as a flamboyant vain, slither al Alter, which I thought was an interesting phrase, who obsessively pursues beautiful women only to dump them when they reciprocate affection or steals their, eats, their heart.

Uh, Hal earns the reputation for stealing girls’ hearts figuratively and literally. The film Downplays Hal’s womanizing. He still charming in vain, even having a green slum tantrum over his hair dye mishap in both versions, but. The movie portrays him far less as a playboy and more as a brooding romantic who has eyes mainly for Sophie, 

[00:13:00] Rebekah: which I think makes sense.

Like it felt as a movie, it felt less like I had to take a long time to even figure out if I liked this character, right? Like it was the end of the book when I’m like, well, I guess it’s okay if Sophie ends up with this guy. Like, 

[00:13:15] Nathan: you know, ‘

[00:13:15] Rebekah: cause he’s. Such a 

[00:13:16] Nathan: jerk in a lot of ways. It is so funny because when Jones, the author of the book, found out that all the female fans were falling for Hal Jenkins.

She’s like, why? He’s trash, like, why would you like him? Like that’s Yeah. In an interview, there’ve been, are you 

[00:13:32] Tim: studies done of women that seemed to gravitate toward bad men? Uh, for one reason or another, so mm-hmm. 

[00:13:39] Josiah: Not me though. I, George, George Martin. In In Game of Thrones, there are several characters where George Martin says, I wrote this character to be as ugly as possible.

Why are people still like, crushing on the Hound or Theon Bray? Even though they do awful things and they are ugly people on the inside. Now 

[00:13:57] Nathan: I do like the comment of like how being more romantic in the movie because definitely, uh, one of the differences in the book, in the movie is in the movie, the first scene where, how comes in, he’s like sweeping Sophie off her feet and like saving her from the soldiers.

And it’s the soldiers who make the comment like, oh, you’re just a scared little mouse in the book. It’s how who comes up smelling like a hyacinth. I remember that explicitly because I don’t like the smell of hyacinth. But he comes up and is the one who makes the comment like, oh, you’re just a little mouse.

And he has absolutely no riz. He’s not flirty at all. He fails. Mm-hmm. He scares Sophie off and he’s like. What, and that’s where like Sophie meets like him in that moment and then later, like when she meets him again, he’s like, oh, this is the stupid guy. From like the Mayday parade, it sounds like the 

[00:14:45] Tim: director’s decision was to immediately do away with all of the other girlfriend possibilities.

All of those other kinds of things grate you YouTube him right away. Just start it right at the 

[00:14:56] Josiah: beginning. Yeah. So Riz, for those of you who are wondering, is short for charisma in the connotation, the flirt game of flirting and romantic connection. 

[00:15:07] Tim: I caught it in the context. Yeah. Caught. I wasn’t telling you I’m cool.

I’m saying I’m cool. So I knew I caught in the context, confused by the word and eventually understood when I got the whole concept. 

[00:15:20] Donna: Well, as we just described him, some from from book, you know, from the way he appears in the book, in the film, he’s reimagined as this mysterious. Hero figure by day he’s gentle, if not a little melodramatic, but by night he transforms into a giant birdlike creature to intervene in a raging war, showing physical bravery, the books, how never exhibits, and in the novel how never morphs into a b into a bird monster.

The shape-shifting warrior aspect is a film invention only. I was okay with it, and I, I did love the hair dye scene. Uh, I did think it was just, it was so funny, and, and they played it well. It was, it was voiced well, and it was very believable that he was just literally losing it because she had, and I don’t think there’s.

A suggestion there that she messed his potion up intentionally. Mm-hmm. But it happened, right? She was just trying to fix it. She’s just trying to clean. And I remember the book talking about how dirty the castle, you know, all that. But she said it was horribly 

[00:16:31] Tim: dirty and the bathroom was the dirtiest of all the bachelor pad.

Yeah, 

[00:16:36] Rebekah: so I was very thrown by the bird monster, by the way. I got so confused ’cause I had just finished, I read the book and literally 30 minutes later started the movie and I was like, wait, what is happening? Like I just got super thrown off. So I don’t know if I totally got that, but as we know, I’m not the one of us to understand like representation of like poetic this or that.

So I don’t know what it is that maybe I was supposed to understand from that, but I just thought it was weird. 

[00:17:04] Nathan: The Monster Bird actually feels very literal in the sense of, uh, I think it, yeah. So like in the war, the. Like the wizards that join Solomon in, like fighting in the war, they like slowly turn into monsters.

So the wizard, the bird that like Hal turns into is kind of just fig, like literally figurative of him slowly turning into a monster and like the path he’ll take if he doesn’t gain his heart back. 

[00:17:30] Tim: It felt, it felt to me like it was just an opportunity to, to enter, uh, more deeply into the, into the anti-war part.

Um, it just, it seemed awkward. I, I really liked how I. You know, the portrayal in the book, the movie, how this part was just odd for me. 

[00:17:47] Josiah: Well, how’s motivations also differ from book to film book? How is more avoiding the king’s order to track down a missing prince and kill the witch of the waist? Mostly because he is scared and lazy.

Well, why is 

[00:18:00] Rebekah: own admission lazy, by the way? It’s not, we’re not guessing that, 

[00:18:03] Josiah: but, but the film Howl, he’s avoiding military conscription into an unjust war and secretly trying to interfere both sides battles to stop the conflict. Film gives Howell more overt, protective streak. Like, um, he shelters, Sophie gives her a charmed ring for safety.

Um, he also gets like a clearer redemption arc where he is. Breaking his own curses, renouncing war. Many of Howell’s quirks from the book, like, you know, he has family in Wales. He has a penchant or al for guitar playing and rugby. Uh, those are, those are left out of the movie. 

[00:18:43] Nathan: Bad guitar playing. He was, he never actually knew how to play guitar.

He just like held it and pretended he just like a trimmer, used it as like, Hey, the girls will like me if I play this. I just never got around to playing. 

[00:18:53] Donna: It’s like lister in red Dwarf. He thought he could play. Nice. 

[00:18:58] Tim: Well, the film’s Howl is less comically flawed and more earnestly heroic. Shifting the character from a selfish but lovable coward in the book to a romantic hero with a dark secret in the movie 

[00:19:10] Nathan: or final decisions when you’re considering the book is whether it’s the book or the movie is better.

I know for a lot of the fans of Howell who like see the movie first, they fall in love with the book because like the standard comment is like, oh, you think Howell is dramatic in the movie? He’s way more dramatic in the book and he’s much funnier in the book. Interesting. And that’s like a very like, good way to put.

Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:32] Rebekah: So let’s talk another, uh, major character here. The witch of the waist, which was I will spoil, threw me off just like the whole bow turning into a bird thing. So the main antagonist of the novel is greatly diminished in the film. So in the book, the Witch of the Waist is a powerful ageless sorcerers who maintains a beautiful and youthful appearance through spells, and she’s relentlessly seeking to possess Howell’s heart for her own nefarious ends.

She curses Sophie out of a mistaken identity thinking that Sophie is actually her rival. Letty who how was courting at the time and out of malice towards Sophie’s budding magical talent ’cause that challenged her magic. By contrast in the film, the Witch’s motivation is simplified to petty jealousy. She was once spurned by Howell, implied that she was once his former lover, and she curses Sophie because Howell shows interest in her.

[00:20:23] Donna: Well, film initially presents the witch as a looming threat, but after a confrontation at the King’s Palace, Madame Suleman neutralizes the Witch’s powers hering her into a helpless, feeble old woman. From that point on the film, witch is a comical, benign figure. An almost pitiable tag Alon who needs Sophie’s care rather than a true villain.

This is a sharp contrast of the novel where the witch remains dangerous up until she is ultimately defeated in a climactic showdown. Couple of things I, one I saw I was okay with her in the film, mostly because it enhanced. The compassion that Sophie had for people and this, it kind of, it kind of enhanced her character.

And she never, even though she’s the one that cursed her, and Sophie knew it, she never stopped taking care of her. And I thought that was really cool, a really good example of like forgiveness. But also I did find it very funny that the witch was like so fat, that there was just skin everywhere. And she was just smelling so gross everywhere she went and she was stuffed into the carriage.

I, I thought that was very, very funny. 

[00:21:41] Rebekah: And she was described as being thin in the book, similar to like old Sophie. Mm-hmm. And she was actually young a lot. Like the old witch of the waist. Only seeing her old was also kind of interesting, just visually. This also completely threw me off, by the way. 

[00:21:56] Tim: Yeah. I was not a, I was not a fan of that.

It, it’s weird 

[00:21:58] Rebekah: switching villains. Yeah. Why do you switch villains? Well, and like mid 

[00:22:02] Tim: movie, right? You start off with her as a villain. Then at some point she becomes more just a side comical character and then she becomes a feeble non character. I, mm-hmm. I found all that strange that we will get to Solomon and all that stuff in a moment, but.

[00:22:19] Nathan: I think one of the biggest differences is, is you can see like the way that Jones wrote the book versus like Miyazaki, who’s a very hopeful director. Like a lot of the Ghibli films, uh, tie into like the hopeful and so like, I like the comment, uh, y’all made on, uh, Sophie, like in the end still caring for the witch of the waste in the movie.

And it’s like very reflective, like in the end, kindness wins. Like that’s one of the things Miyazaki would really push. But in the book, uh, the Witch created a fire demon in human form. Miss Andorian as part of her scheme. Essentially the witch’s life force, which is the demon. And this demon is the true final villain Sophie must confront.

Miss Andorian does not exist in the film at all, and with the witch of the waste effectively sidelined early. The movie transfers the primary villain role to Solomon and the war itself, which again, Solomon ends up not really being that much a villain. ’cause she makes a, like a sly comment about like, oh, I knew how would like come back in the end.

And so she’s just sort of like a mentor that was pushing Hal, uh, towards the end. But yeah. 

[00:23:20] Tim: Well, Mme. Solomon versus Wizard Solomon and Mrs. 10 Timon. Um, in the book you have Wizard Soleman and Mrs. Pence dimon. In the film you have Madam Soleman. Uh, the film invents Madam Soleman by combining two book characters.

Wizard Soleman. Missing Royal Wizard, who turns out to be a victim. And Mrs. Pence Dimon, Howell’s wise old mentor, uh, in the book, both are allies, not villains. The movie instead, cast soleman as Howell’s former teacher turned antagonist, a powerful war hungry Sorceress who strips the witch of her powers and tries to force Howell into military service.

This simplification turns her into to a political villain to fit the film’s anti-war theme a bit better. Uh, replacing the book’s more abstract, conflict centered on personal growth and magical curses. Um, this was one of the changes that I did not care for. Um, I really enjoyed the character of Mrs.

Penman. I thought it was a really nice, well, you know, well thought out character in the book. And her absence was strange. I. And they took a little bit of her connection to Hal as teacher and put it on Madam Soleman who becomes the villain ish. So it was just, it was awkward for me. I 

[00:24:40] Rebekah: had a really hard time with this.

Normally, I like it when a plot feels a lot broader and like that it’s a bigger deal. Like I way more prefer things about saving the world than just like this person growing. But in this way I was like, okay, you just hooked me in the book with what I was supposed to be thinking about and liking. And it felt kind of jarring to then be like, okay, the villain is now changed.

It’s this other person, but she’s not really a villain. And so there now there’s not really a villain. It’s just that war is bad. And it was like, I don’t know. I don’t, it just felt like such a random left turn. I’m not even arguing the point if it is or not. I just, it just felt like a very strange direction to take it.

[00:25:19] Josiah: Yeah. Are you on the pro-war path? 

[00:25:21] Rebekah: I’m not really anti-war. Pro war, I would say I’m pretty neutral because I think sometimes there are unavoidable wars and sometimes. I, I think that the horrors of war are terrible too. Not sometimes. That’s always true. So it’s like, I’m not, I don’t take like a strong stance.

It just was like a jarring plot shift. It’s like, this is a love story. Nevermind. War is bad. It’s a love story about the war. Like it was just weird to me. 

[00:25:44] Josiah: I think that when it comes to Japanese storytelling, I do think if you, I don’t know how much anime that any of you besides Nathan have watched, but it’s definitely Japanese storytellers are willing to be a lot weirder, which makes for absolutely some really good video game companies like Nintendo and Sony.

And a lot of good visuals. Anime is very popular for a reason, but I think that American Hollywood sort of narrative style we’ve just had longer to, to practice around with, hey, what pleases audience? What gets our hearts tugged? And I think that that Hollywood and American has figured that out more than any other market.

But Japan has figured out a, a niche and they’re really good at their niche. But it certainly is different than American storytelling. 

[00:26:31] Donna: Mm-hmm. And as we get into trivia and learn a little bit more about the director, a lot of this is gonna make so much sense. Uh, I’ve read so much stuff about him and looked up articles and interviews and stuff, because honestly, Nathan did suggest that.

That would be a great way to research is just kind of go look for stuff they’ve said, Uhhuh, uh, and he, he is not secretive or shy about his, his opinion. So 

[00:26:57] Tim: I did feel like one of the things that the Japanese storytelling reminds me of is something I learned about in college. Uh, and that’s the Middle Ages, morality plays.

Uh, when the, when the church, which became known as the Catholic Church, uh, was the main supporter of all arts of any kind. Uh, early on they were only allowed to do morality plays. It had to be something with a moral and things like that. And it seems like, uh, this hearkens back to that type of storytelling.

You know, Josiah said something about the heart, the heart tug that wasn’t, uh, morality plays. The morality play was about the, this is the message. You need to get, uh, from it. And I kind of see a similarity there 

[00:27:38] Nathan: tying into the Japanese storytelling, uh, line. I know also, like with American storytelling, we think a lot about like movies needing plot.

Like even those like really funny movies. It’s like there’s a lot of plot to them. I know I’ve discussed with Josh, one of our favorite people who loves Ghibli as well, Ghibli as like Miyazaki and his work. A lot of it just feels more like, how do I explain this? Like an expressed art form more than just storytelling where like a lot of the Ghibli movies are just really beautiful art and like really beautiful expression.

The soundtracks are amazing. And so like the plot is sometimes maybe not pushed under the rug, but pushed to the background for the foreground to be more like relaxing. Especially with like some of his younger audience movies like Ponyo and that, like those movies. It’s like, this is just a really pretty movie.

It’s like a comfort movie, like really nice to watch. And you can even see that with like, even with the heavy themes and like how’s, it’s like. It’s really obviously just a very pretty movie and it’s like admirable as an art form, not just as storytelling. 

[00:28:41] Tim: I would certainly agree that it’s, that it’s beautiful.

Mm-hmm. Just early on in the film, when Sophie comes, looked in the mirror, the triple mirror, that that is a beautifully done and, and they don’t take the tack that a lot of animation takes to try to, well we’re, it’s just kind of a lesser image. They were very sharp, very clear, like a mirror actually would be, and, and that’s just one of those visual things.

So I agree. It’s very visually beautiful throughout. Very creative the castle as well. 

[00:29:10] Josiah: Well, you know who else was different? Caler, the fire Demon. The core role of Caler bound by a magical contract to Howell’s Heart is the same from book to film. He. Serves as a bit funnier. He’s more of a comic relief in the film.

He is a bit more sly in the book. Even a little frightening in the novel. 

[00:29:33] Nathan: He’s also mm-hmm. Much cuter in the movie, in the mm-hmm. Book. He’s terrifying and like a bunch of bright colors, like blue and purple. Yeah. And like he has more distinct features in the movie. He’s just sort of like cutesy. 

[00:29:46] Rebekah: How dare you suggest that a rainbow version of Caler is not as pretty as the version of the movie.

I’m offended 

[00:29:53] Josiah: and Billy Crystal voices him to much comic effect. He Oh, he does 

[00:29:57] Donna: a great job. Yeah. And I think they needed him. I think that it was a nice balance to, to the whole kind of the ensemble cast that lived there in the house. I, I thought he was a great balance. Another cool character that I didn’t expect to like, but I kinda did was Mark.

Or his name, Michael Fisher. Howell’s Young Apprentice, is changed a lot from book to film, starting with his name Mark in the film. And Michael Fisher in the book, 15-year-old Michael, who is in love with Martha in the book, one of Sophie’s sisters, and working on his own magical learnings becomes in the film Markle around eight to 10 years old and he’s serving primarily as a little comic relief without a subplot of interest in one of her sisters.

I kind of saw him as the, like the chief Butler of the house. That’s kind of the role he took on himself. Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. And the hat thing, the cape and the beard. Oh yeah, that’s winning would go to answer the door. Mm, loved it. 

[00:31:01] Nathan: Fun note, if I remember correctly in the book it mentions this explicitly, Michael was actually an orphan that was left on Hal’s doorstep.

I think that’s right. Right. And so how kind of raised like Michael mm-hmm. Which is really adorable and really sets how like up as a more hard full person. Uh, which is actually like interesting thinking about his age because he’s only like 10 years older than mm-hmm. Mark Michael. And so, but yeah, I think that’s a really interesting thing where like in the movie, I think it’s just sort of hinted that like Marco just kinda stepped in and was like, yeah, I’m just here now.

And, uh, just he’s telling me stuff is apprenticing me. Um, but like in the. In the book, he actually like explicitly brings in this orphan and like raises him and takes care of him, 

[00:31:45] Tim: which is pretty cool. There’s another characterization, um, adjustment. This one, uh, is turnip head, the scarecrow, who we find eventually is Prince Justin.

In the film, turnip Head is a cursed prince, whom Sophie helps. Early on, uh, her kiss later breaks the spell revealing him as Prince Justin in a simple fairytale twist. In the book, however, the Scarecrow is a creepy figure tied to a dark, magical experiment by the witch of the waist. A mix of Prince Justin and Wizard Solomon’s body parts.

Sophie unknowingly animates him with her magic. His identity is part of a complex puzzle, unraveled at the end, making the book’s version darker and more intricate than the film’s suite. Comedic take and Sophie not, uh, unlike the film where she seems to like him in the book, she hates him. She’s scared of him and she’s continually saying, go away and do this, do that.

Which actually gives him the opportunity to make some of, some of the advances that he makes, you know, to go twice as fast and different kinds of things like that. But this is a very different take on turnip head. 

[00:32:54] Rebekah: So let’s talk about the thing that confused me most in the movie. So more 

[00:33:02] Donna: You mean the name?

His name. Is that what confused you? The 

[00:33:06] Rebekah: Well, that didn’t help. So let’s talk about Heen, the dog versus Perle. The cursed dog man. Oh, I can’t even say that without wanting to laugh. Both versions of the story have a dog. Okay. The dog tags along with Sophie Chill. And I saw this little dog show up and I’m like, cool.

It’s this guy. No, it’s not. They’re completely different people. They have nothing to do with each other. The only thing in common is that they both appear as dogs. One of them is actually a dog. So the not the one in the book. So the book dog, Sophie Frees this dog. While she’s on her travels, we find out later.

He’s really a man named Perceval. He was cursed by the witch of the waist and he contains parts of Wizard Solomon that are not in the Scarecrow thing, turn a bed thing. Uh, he contains those parts after the witch merged him with Princess or Prince Justin as that scarecrow, he perceval the cursed dog man ends up being a vital part of the plot and he’s the one that actually reveals Sophie’s curse officially, uh, by the witch of the West.

The film Wait, replaces Curable. Which witch? Which witch? Witch of the waist. Not the wicked witch of the West. I’m sorry. I mean it was bound to happen. Come on Dorothy. Go on. I was the one that had to do it. Um, the film replaces Perceval with Heen, the dog, Heen, HEEN. What kind of name is that? 

[00:34:31] Nathan: Okay. Okay 

[00:34:32] Rebekah: guys, I got this.

Lemme the 

[00:34:33] Nathan: actual 

[00:34:33] Rebekah: dog. 

[00:34:35] Nathan: I was gonna say, you wanna know why his name is Heen? Because his only line in the whole movie is. 

[00:34:42] Donna: Oh, that’s true. That’s what, that’s the, it’s a, 

[00:34:46] Rebekah: it’s, he’s a dog. I hate that. 

[00:34:51] Nathan: I don’t know if that’s the actual reason, but it is funny because the, like the dog the whole time is like.

[00:34:59] Rebekah: Well, Heen is an actual dog, not a person. Cursed to appear as something that he’s not. Uh, Heen is intelligent somewhat, but he’s under Madam Solomon’s command, which is confusing because she’s a villain, but then not a villain. So then I didn’t know if the dog was like a villain part. Was he like a spy whatever?

No, he doesn’t spy for them soleman anyway. It doesn’t even matter. He doesn’t influence the plot. He’s a little bit of like sweet humor in and out, but essentially he is completely pointless and I don’t understand why he’s there. 

[00:35:37] Nathan: Oh, he’s a little bit of the plot because I’m pretty sure at the end when, uh, Solomon is looking through the globe in the movie.

Yes. She’s like, oh, there you are. Yeah. Finally. And the, he’s like laughing at the dog. And Heen was part of the thing that like pushed Sophie along. I don’t know. Yeah. But that is mentioned. I don’t think 

[00:35:55] Rebekah: that I would consider that meaning that like, I don’t consider that part of the plot. Poor Heen is, has a horrible plot.

[00:36:01] Donna: He has a horrible name. You’ve gotta give him a break. Okay. Just true. 

[00:36:06] Josiah: His name used to be Benjamin. 

[00:36:09] Donna: Yes. 

[00:36:11] Tim: I, I really like the look of the film. This animated character drives me insane. It does. It has chicken legs. It has it a dog. Three toes, like a chicken. No dog has three toes. No dog has three toes. None of them.

Say that again. Have three toes with three claws. That’s a chicken foot. 

[00:36:36] Donna: Say it backwards

[00:36:40] Tim: that there is a thing with chicken. See, once I have seen it, I cannot unsee it. In every, the castle, everything has chicken legs 

[00:36:49] Rebekah: too. Maybe it’s a thing. The animators. That’s 

[00:36:51] Tim: magical. The castle is not supposed be a dog. Supposed to be a dog. It’s this crazy castle. 

[00:36:56] Donna: We watch it again and I’m like, I mean, Tim is, they’re not really chicken feet.

I was like, they’re, they’re just little skinny, you know, little dogs, they’ll have little skinny feet at the end by the time it gets down to their foot chicken. Three toes. They’re three toes. 

[00:37:10] Rebekah: My favorite, my favorite line from this whole episode is going to be yes, but the Castle’s not supposed to be a dog.

[00:37:18] Nathan: Um, I will say, I’m right there with you, Tim. I actually had that in my mind. The dog has chicken feet. 

[00:37:24] Josiah: Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:25] Donna: It is bad. So we’ve discussed some characters in book and film and how they’ve changed, but there were several book characters that are not in the film at all, or maybe might be pieces of them and brought into the characters, but they are Miss Andorian, prince Justin, aside from his little pieces, turnip head, Hal’s family in Wales, and Mrs.

Fairfax, who is LED’s witch mentor. And I was okay with, I can see how they would go out. Maybe you could have switched out one for another or whatever. But I think with the focus being what it was, um, I think the cast was large enough. He was able to flesh characters and use them or whatever. So.

[00:38:07] Nathan: One of the bonus things that if you’re looking at like book to film, Hal, one of the things in the book that makes Hal a bit more of an affectionate character, like I mentioned, him taking in Markle, um, he actually is very affectionate for his sister and his, uh, nephew or niece.

Oh, I forget if it’s a nephew or niece, but it’s actually mentioned where like he goes and like brings stuff from Ry or his, they’re called nibbling. Nibbling, yeah. 

[00:38:33] Donna: Aw, that’s cute. 

[00:38:34] Tim: No, I was just, I was just gonna comment, I I see exactly why the entire whales subplot was left out of the movie. It was a little confusing in the book.

I mean, you get, okay, well he’s not actually from this world and all of that. But I, I could certainly see if you’re gonna have to cut something and every director has to cut something for a movie cutting that entire segment of whales made sense. 

[00:38:58] Rebekah: Well, speaking of whales, why don’t we talk about differences in the setting from the book to film?

[00:39:03] Josiah: Yeah. Well there’s a major and explicit war in the film shown in very. Steam punk aesthetic. It’s totally absent from the book. Some critics suggest this exists to integrate both a more 20th century feel and an anti-war theme into the movie The books world. In contrast, it’s more charming. Edu Edwardian era fantasy.

Kingdom Magic is common. Technology is limited to things like horse-drawn carts, you know, electronics, uh, far more than just changing the story. Setting the warrant in the film also changes the context and stakes of the plot, broadening them to a larger span of affected people should howl fail. The novels, conflicts, they’re just more personal and magical rather than military.

[00:39:52] Nathan: If I remember correctly, with the war, I think the war is mentioned in the book, but it is mentioned specifically as if, if Hal fails the mission, there will be a war, I think like him. So they tease it hunting down Prince Justin and helping with the stuff. Yeah. Is the thing that’ll prevent it. 

[00:40:07] Tim: Interesting.

Well, whale, for those of our family and friends who may be a little rough on geography, is a real world location. Good. Is 

[00:40:20] Rebekah: it a real world location? It’s where, where is it? Is it in Asia? 

[00:40:27] Tim: The angry, the British Isles Capital? Um, well it is a real world location. It’s mentioned in the novel as House Homeland and the place that his family still lives.

The book occasionally shifts to this contemporary setting, which includes cars, universities, everyday people, and even video games, uh mm-hmm. The film amidst the whale subplot and any mention of real world settings. Mm-hmm. Uh, and. Like I said before, I think that’s probably a wise decision. 

[00:40:54] Rebekah: While I know that I am the scapegoat of bad geography in our family, I will also admit that yesterday I was like, this book is so old, and she mentions how inventing video games, like I know video games were like out by the eighties, but not much before that.

So I made Josh like a, when computer video games first came out, which was in like the 1960s. This book was written in, started 1986, which is the year that Josh was born. So then I felt bad and I was like, I, I’m, I’m not, I’m not trying to make anybody feel older, but I was, I literally was modern, 

[00:41:29] Josiah: modern video games.

Games started with Mario in 86. 

[00:41:32] Tim: I had the first Okay. So I wasn’t crazy. Yeah. I had the first video games. As a child, as a, a older child, uh, in the late sixties and early seventies, so, yeah. 

[00:41:43] Rebekah: Well, you are the only person who was alive when the first computer video game was invented on this podcast. That’s true.

So, um, that’s, that’s a thing. 

[00:41:50] Josiah: He’s only two years older. Well, she was 60. The first video 

[00:41:53] Rebekah: game was invented in 1963. I just wanna point out that Nathan is the only person on this podcast that was born in the two thousands. 

[00:42:03] Tim: We’re all 20th century. We were born in the 19 hundreds. He is unique. 

[00:42:10] Nathan: In the book, the Door Open To Market, chipping Sophie’s hometown, the Seaside Port of Port Haven, the Royal Capital Kingsbury.

And how’s other house in Modern Whales? Each location corresponds to one of how’s Alias with its own set of contacts and responsibilities for the Wizard. The films for door locations include market Chipping, a Mountain Meadow, Sophie’s Old Hat Shop, and a mysterious black portal revealed later to be a portal to house childhood memories.

Um, mm-hmm. The first set of doors in the movie are to market chipping. They are to, um, I think for Haven, the four. The first four are, it’s a city in 

[00:42:51] Tim: one kingdom and a city in the other kingdom. And Wales, right? Well, yeah. 

[00:42:55] Nathan: Yeah. It’s the first ones are, uh, wherever the castle is. It’s to, in the movie, it’s wherever the castle is, it’s the war torn countryside.

It’s, uh, court haven and then, uh, Kingsbury. Those are the four. And then when, when you say 

[00:43:12] Rebekah: the war torn countryside, is that the black? 

[00:43:15] Nathan: Yeah, that’s the black, like the 

[00:43:15] Rebekah: gray? Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:43:17] Nathan: Mm. Interesting. And then once they like move the house and transform it, it goes to the hat shop, it goes to again, the countryside with the war torn the black.

It goes to wherever the castle is. And then, um. I forget if there’s another one. I dunno if it explicitly mentioned. Oh no. It goes to the countryside with the meadow where like, uh, Hal sets it up that Sophie can go pig flowers and start a flower shop in whatever. Also, I will make a note, and we talked about whales being removed.

I do think the more terrifying of the two options would be whales over the war torn countryside. 

[00:43:59] Josiah: Yeah. Cardiff man. Mm-hmm. European Rebecca knows pains. Am I right? What Cardiff is? Ugh, 

[00:44:04] Rebekah: I have Google. No one needs to know these things until they’re mentioned. Would you be 

[00:44:10] Tim: amazed to find that? We listened to a YouTube yesterday where they were talking about the use of AI and all that kind of stuff.

All the things we get make us where we don’t need to know things and we’re gonna get to where we simply don’t. Here what 

[00:44:23] Rebekah: you know Cardiff. Cardiff is the capital of Wales is a population of 370 2089 people as a computer. A 2022 is looking, it’s a city in Wales. It is also a county. It’s the 11th largest city in the United Kingdom.

Wow. So, I mean, I can’t believe you guys didn’t just know all of that off the dome, but that’s not my fault. I thought it was still the 

[00:44:47] Josiah: 10th, but I guess it’s going down. Whale, whale, whale. Whales, whales, whale. 

[00:44:53] Rebekah: Oh yeah. And there’s things to do there, like restaurants. We should go there. Bottomless brunch.

Just like here. Whales people are just like us. They have bottomless brunch. Yeah. Whale 

[00:45:03] Josiah: people. Welsh. 

[00:45:04] Rebekah: You know what? 

[00:45:05] Josiah: Welsh 

[00:45:06] Rebekah: whale. What about whale people? What the Ians, what about the whale people? The Ians are just like a, 

[00:45:13] Donna: but do you know, do you know what is not in Wales? In real life? How well how’s moving Castle because it’s described in the book as a magic moving building floating slightly above the ground in the hills, seen as a dark shape with a, with some smoke coming out.

The film Reimagines the Castle as a walking steampunk contraption. Like Josiah mentioned, it’s a ramshackled howing edifice of mismatched part that walks on chicken like mechanical legs. Just like heen the dog and visible changes shape like a living creature. Its interior is similarly enchanted in both versions.

Bigger on the inside and very messy until Sophie cleans it. But there’s no mention of industrial machinery within the castle. In the book, as we see in the film, the book’s, castle is empowered by ERs magic alone and not 20th century tech, 

[00:46:17] Tim: I think, isn’t it that it’s bigger. On the outside it looks like it should be a lot.

Mm-hmm. But there’s not much inside it. It’s a very small, she said, is this all of the castle? Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:28] Nathan: You 

[00:46:28] Tim: know, that kind of thing. 

[00:46:29] Nathan: Yeah, that is mentioned in the book. I believe in the, yeah, that’s what it’s, ’cause like it’s with the portals and whatever and so it like, it also feels bigger, especially like in the movie where there’s the upstairs, the downstairs, there’s all the such, but in the book it’s more of like, it’s really tiny on the inside and then there’s like the portals tab everywhere.

[00:46:46] Rebekah: Okay. I have very strong opinions on magic systems in fantasy books. And hows simplifies the book’s? More detailed, magical system in the movie, I’ll, let me tell you what happened, what changes, and then I’ll share with you my feelings. The novel includes the use of spells and chanted objects and the idea that words have power, like Sophie unknowingly animating things or making howls.

Suit cause him to be desirable to women. The film omits most of this. It does add some new magical elements like Howls Bird-like transformation, and the idea that war turns wizards into monsters highlighting the film’s more anti-war theme. Madame Suleiman’s powers are also exaggerated in the movie.

She’s able to use instant spell casting that we don’t see at all in the book. And overall, the film uses magic for visual drama while the book treats it with more structure and rules. Which is not true in my opinion. That was from an article, uh, that last little bit, and I would disagree. I’m gonna share my thoughts and then you can share yours.

Nathan, I have lots of thoughts. I like a consistent magic system. I don’t need everything to be as good as mist born, which is very clear. You know, Harry Potter’s a good example of like, they use consistent magic. The spells do the same things and things, however, they do not use magic to its fullest extent.

And there’s a lot of points in the book where it’s used or not used to further the plot. And so it doesn’t have to be perfect, like for magic system to be good. But this had very stardust vibes for me. Honestly, the book was actually worse. Oh my 

[00:48:17] Josiah: goodness. Yes. I was gonna talk, I was gonna, I was waiting for the end to talk about how many similarities there are to Stardust.

[00:48:24] Rebekah: Yes. And I felt like it did that same thing where it was like, oh, magic. Like, it just kind of, things would come outta nowhere with very little meaning of any kind and just. They’re magic. That’s it. Mm-hmm. That’s the answer. That’s the only thing you need to know. And I think it just, it confused me. Like it made the book harder to read because I was like, wait, what just happened?

And it’s cool. Like there’s those, the boots that, that help them walk really fast with each step. Like that was cool, right? Like there were certain things like that that were neat. There were a lot of things that just felt, well, we just wanted to say, and Josh even asked me last night, he’s like, well, can’t something just be whimsy?

Like why does the magic system have to be clear? And maybe it’s just ’cause I’m a very, I’m not an abstract thinker. I’m very like concrete in my thinking, but it drove me insane. 

[00:49:11] Nathan: I was just gonna mention, I did have a, a memory from the book you talked about like more inc. Instant spell casting, and I’m pretty sure there’s a scene in the book where Hal has a magic fight with the witch of the waist.

And it’s funny and mentioned the differences because Hal just runs straightforward in the fight and like fan commentary. It’s mentioned like in the movie he’s like very like not the strongest person. Like he like relies on magic. But in the book he’s a rugby player. Like he, it mentions he has the rugby jacket, I mentioned that already.

And so it like makes so much sense for like him to be in this magic fight and his first thought is, I’m gonna go tackle the witch of the waist. I 

[00:49:50] Josiah: liked that. Mm-hmm. This was giving me very Neil Gaiman’s Stardust vibes. Mm-hmm. For multiple reasons. Mm-hmm. For one, the, the magic being a, I don’t wanna say random, but it was a very soft magic system.

As Brandon Sanderson would put it. There was a lot of what I will call frivolous slavery in both. Mm-hmm. Stardust and Howell’s moving Castle. Caler is a slave. Yeah. And Sophie is somewhat of a slave, but it’s not seen as like slavery is bad. It’s just like, oh, I guess I’m an indentured servant. I’ll make the best out of it.

[00:50:24] Rebekah: And kind of Marvel, ADUs do kind of say that they do it by their own choice, sort 

[00:50:29] Josiah: of. 

[00:50:29] Rebekah: There’s 

[00:50:30] Josiah: a power. But yes, I think you’re right. But dynamic there, there’s a power imbalance 

[00:50:33] Nathan: that feels weird. It doesn’t. Yeah. Because 

[00:50:36] Josiah: there’s also in Stardust and in-house moving castle, falling in love while enslaved, or at least indentured servitude.

And I, and, uh, the authors of both seem very comfortable with different power dynamics leading to romantic attraction. Mm-hmm. And it’s like, you know, that can be a story, but it’s interesting that it’s not really explored as you know, Hal never says, I don’t th I don’t know if they like explicit. Do they explicitly fall in love or is it just like, we’re all shit, I think, and Sophie?

Yes, 

[00:51:07] Nathan: absolutely they do. Okay, 

[00:51:08] Josiah: thank you. So I wish that Hal would maybe mention like, oh, you know what, this is not. The perfect way that I would’ve wanted it to happen. But you know, e even despite all the weirdnesses of it, you know, I think this is, this means something really special. 

[00:51:22] Nathan: Something like that, that feels a a little weird to me because in, if I remember correctly, in Stardust, it is like very, like the deal is one sided in house moving castle.

It doesn’t feel as one-sided though, because like specifically with Caler and Hal, like both of them rely on both sides of the deal. And like Sophie, there’s no actual like contract. Between her and Hal, she just sort of comes and invades his house and starts cleaning, like mm-hmm. Uh, Hal tries to kick her out multiple times actually.

Yeah. Yeah. So slavery true. That feels weird. I don’t know. But also, 

[00:51:54] Josiah: she’s their, she’s their servant unpaid, and she is under a spell that she is, she is forbidden from mentioning. Uh, and so in order to release herself from the spell, she feels like she feels like she is required to be there or else she’ll stay under the curse for the rest of time, 

[00:52:12] Nathan: I guess.

Yeah, because she’s cursed and she goes out to seek her portion because she’s the eldest and everything’s gonna suffer if she’s the eldest. And so, yeah, I guess she does kind of go and forces herself onto how, because he’s the only option to get rid of the thing, which is it’s her in the end. 

[00:52:29] Josiah: And it also, the witches, I feel like the witch of the waist, especially in the film, serves kind of a ditch water.

So role, oh, yeah. Being a minor villain who’s a witch who has to do a lot with. The main character’s, uh, beginning of the story, but not a lot with the end of the main character story. 

[00:52:47] Tim: Aside from the power dynamics and strange romantic connections of the 20th century, which to the 21st century seem a little strange, more strange even than before.

There were also some plot and timeline. Changes in the book. Sophie lives quietly in her hat shop unknowingly using magic. She meets Hal briefly before the witch of the waste curses her out of spite. And Sophie leaves home without telling anyone in the film. Sophie’s first encounter with Hal as a dramatic rescue, sparking the witch’s jealousy.

The film adds a romantic connection early and let Sophie confide in Calor. Unlike the book where her curse prevents her from speaking about it, the timelines also shifted. Sophie meets Hal before her transformation in the movie, but after in the book, and I assumed that the reason she could talk to Calor was he said, you are under this curse.

And so she could talk about it because he had mentioned it first. 

[00:53:46] Rebekah: I think that’s right. And as Nathan pointed out, the time they meet early in the book, she is like creeped out by him because he calls her a mouse. But then you said in the film it’s the soldiers or whatever, it’s romantic. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So I thought this was a smart change because in the book it’s very unclear in my opinion that it’s gonna be a love story.

Um, and so I think that the film did a good job of like making you be like, oh look, he’s like carrying her. Maybe this is some sort of something like, and it does call back to it by the end, which I thought was good. So I like, I liked the way they did that. 

[00:54:19] Josiah: Okay. Here’s probably a good place to mention this story never got past my me being dumb filter.

I just. I could not, I’m not a good book reader. I’m not a good movie watcher, and I never understood what the story was about. Like I finished the film, I finished the book, I watched videos to like go over the plot and themes of the book and the movie, book versus movie. And I was all, I was always confused as to like, what is this movie about?

And so I think it’s funny you mentioned that it was a good change because you weren’t sure that it was a love story. I’m still not sure if it’s a love story. 

[00:54:55] Nathan: This story is two idiots and Self-Discovery. Very simple way to put it. So Rebecca’s least, least 

[00:55:00] Josiah: favorite kind of book. 

[00:55:02] Nathan: Yeah, I was gonna say, uh, not to make Rebecca cringe, but yeah, it’s, it’s pretty much all of Sophie and Hal, uh, improving his characters.

[00:55:12] Rebekah: You should have seen the look on my face when Nathan first suggested that we do this. 

[00:55:16] Josiah: Did you know what it was about? 

[00:55:17] Nathan: And that was before she knew the story. And that’s was just anime. I knew 

[00:55:20] Rebekah: that I had, I knew that I’d been forced to watch at least a portion of the anime. So sort of, 

[00:55:25] Josiah: Aw, can you enjoy how beautiful the animation is?

Yeah, it 

[00:55:28] Rebekah: is gorgeous. That part was super well done, for sure. Obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m not a monster. 

[00:55:33] Nathan: In the book, Sophie sets out a loan to find her fortune, rescues a dog and reluctantly freeze a creepy scarecrow before spotting and entering the castle on her own. In the film, the Scarecrow now named Turnip head, Sophie’s least favorite vegetable helps her immediately by leading her to the castle, making her journey feel more magical and guided.

Sophie enters through the main door in the movie while in the book she sneaks in through the back. Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:01] Rebekah: And in the film, there’s only one door, right? 

[00:56:04] Nathan: There’s only 

[00:56:04] Rebekah: one. That’s part of how they do that. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like, it’s like 

[00:56:06] Nathan: actually like a thing that comes down from the cast because it’s up on the chicken legs and moving Right.

While in like the book, it’s like the whole castle. And there’s like, it’s funny because like she walks one way to get into one of the doors and that door doesn’t work and she like mm-hmm. Can’t pass one of the corners. And so she has to walk all the way around to like the opposite side in her old lady legs.

Not chicken legs. Old lady legs. Yes. 

[00:56:31] Tim: And one of the, one of the entrances has a garden, it’s like a fenced in garden area around near the door. That’s the one she ends up getting in. I believe 

[00:56:40] Rebekah: both versions of the plot sends Sophie to the palace in Howell’s place. But the outcomes and the confusion of Rebecca differ immensely.

In the book, Sophie poses his hell’s mother to help him avoid his royal duties. Um, as a visit is supposed to focus on the mystery of the missing Prince. This is where Sophie’s supposed to blacken his name to the king as it’s stated in the film. Sophie summoned by Suleman. They enter. Sophie and the witch of the waist into the castle at the same time, and there’s this whole scene where suddenly this is where the witch of the waist thing starts to go very differently, where the witch of the waist is very old.

She’s sweaty and gross trying to get up the stairs. Then you also have Sophie who’s carrying he and the dog, both of whom are old women, sweating and disgusting. By the time they reach the top of the stairs, there’s so many stairs. And like Sophie. Yeah, Sophie becomes helpful. It was just like. I was so distracted by trying to understand what an tarnation was going on.

Um, I really liked in the book how when they’re entering, they keep being passed from like soldier to soldier and they keep introducing themselves. And actually Howell and Michael were with Sophie at the beginning and then at some point Hal is taken off somewhere else. And then in the next a different point like Michael’s ticket.

I thought that that was a really whimsical, like fun little thing. So that was completely different. Suleman, once they arrive, takes the witch of the waste into one room and Sophie into another. She strips the witch witch of the waste of her powers. And she tries to trap Howell into joining the war. As she talks to Sophie, there’s like a magical confrontation.

This is where you switch the villain arc from the witch to Suleman, and the king gets a brief, very brief roll as we see Howell masquerading as the monarch before the real version enters the room. And it just, the, the king in the book had a lot more to say. There was a lot more going on with him and he, I don’t know, he was a character that like, I could relate.

I don’t know. He was like interesting to me. So this whole thing went. Completely a different direction. 

[00:58:38] Nathan: This is the scene where the real main character comes in, he and the dog. Because Wolf, it’s not actually, Sophie’s not like, like directly directed to leave the room. She just sees he and the dog leave and like thinks that he And is how, because how in the movie Yeah.

Tells her that like, Hey, I’ll be with you. Yeah. And she’s like, well, this isn’t very flamboyant, but I guess it’s how, and so he, she follows he and the dog out and that’s where she actually meets one of the servants. And then which of the waste is left, uh, to be depleted of her power powers and just comment.

I don’t think there’s anything more romantic than a guy going, Hey, would you like to act as my mother and tell uh, people I’m terrible and don’t wanna do this work? Terrible. 

[00:59:24] Josiah: Nice. Yeah. There’s that Riz love 

[00:59:27] Tim: story. W Riz. In the book that backfires and all the things Oh, yeah. That she says that are terrible.

That makes him more the person I want because he is so selfie facing. Tim 

[00:59:41] Rebekah: w Riz is good. L riz is bad. The W is is like win win and then L is lose. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But you don’t say win Riz. You say w Riz. I’m really good. I would say, 

[00:59:53] Josiah: I would say Riz W Mm. That’s a Riz win. Nope. Or 

[00:59:57] Rebekah: I suppose in my, you did not make up the slang, so I suppose in, in my case, I’ll just 

[01:00:00] Tim: use words that I understand.

[01:00:02] Rebekah: We just use them as they are used in popular culture. Mm-hmm. I just, or pop culture if 

[01:00:09] Josiah: mm-hmm. If you were born after 1920, yes. 

[01:00:12] Nathan: I just specifically like using Riz for this episode because I mean, one of the biggest changes is in the movie Hal has w Riz, where he’s like, fantastic romantic. Um, oh, in the book, Hal is absolutely horrendous as a human being.

Yeah. I think we mentioned where like he only pursues girls until they actually show interest. And then he, like, he’s only there for the chase and he’s gone. And then once he’s done, he’s like, oh, I don’t like, what a great guy. 

[01:00:40] Rebekah: As he’s explaining this at the end, this is part of the terrible magic system.

It’s the magic. He’s like, oh, I have to do this. And it’s like the only thing that will help me like succeed in things if, if I’m lazy about them first. But it’s not like he tries to present it. Like, it’s not a character flaw. It’s part of his magic. Nice. Isn’t, 

[01:00:59] Nathan: isn’t that something with the poem? I don’t know.

There’s uh, maybe in the book Miss Ann Go or someone who was his. Teacher, the witch of the waste uses a poem from his past. Mm-hmm. And I think it mentioned something with his heart, because that goes into lore of like later with like what Caler actually ends up being. And so he like, I think has to win.

It’s like one of those first love situations. 

[01:01:24] Donna: Yeah. Well at this point in the movie, let me say, when the first time I saw the Steps to the Castle, I immediately went to the end of John Wick three. And so I was like, and then seeing them crawl up and seeing them like die, about to die to get to the top of the steps.

[01:01:40] Josiah: Has everyone seen John Wick but me? I have not seen it either. I’ve seen, well, there’s 

[01:01:44] Donna: steps in the third one. Why you have long listen. Because it was funny. I’m just funny. He, and he 

[01:01:48] Josiah: was a part of it. Yes. Yes. He was involved. 

[01:01:50] Donna: And it’s a really hilarious and completely unrealistic scene in the movie. Not like the rest of the series is unrealistic.

That’s, but I’m gonna go on with this movie. At this point in the movie, the conflict turns entirely to the war and the danger that it’s gonna pose to the characters in the book, the Witch remains the main threat. Uh, she’s luring Sophie into a trap through Miss Ango secretly her demon, while Howell hides the castle in Sophie’s old hat Shop and investigates.

Mm-hmm. His curse in the film, the Witch is sidelined. Oh. Becomes the, and hangs out. Hangs out of her clothes and every would be beautiful in the chair. Uh, 

[01:02:34] Tim: ends up smoking a cigar. 

[01:02:36] Donna: Ends up ci. She 

[01:02:36] Rebekah: becomes completely l She loses 

[01:02:39] Donna: her mind. She loses it big and she’s great to have around. So funny Howell battles bombers in his bird form.

And this is one of the few birds that I can deal with. Okay. ’cause I was, I could deal with this. The castle is moved to protect Sophie and Suleiman’s forces launch magical attacks. Scary it, it went off here. And again, I’m just gonna say the director had serious issues with the war in Iraq and, and he, uh, it’s, it’s quite interesting that he made this and somehow took this thing that could have been a funny, quirky.

Timeless and my love story, timeless love story. And he gets to this part and goes, dun, I have to put in here that there’s a horrible war and everybody’s gonna be destroyed because Iraq is a huge mistake and is like, I almost in my head, I like remove myself from the war part. Totally. Because I really like the love story that’s going on with Hal and Sophie, but Oh yeah.

You know, other people may or may not take that. 

[01:03:45] Tim: So I’m going to focus here on the climax of the book. The Climax is a chaotic convergence of plot threads. Sophie unknowingly. Lets Miss Andorian, who is the witch of the wastes fire demon into the castle. Where she tries to steal Howell’s heart contained in Calcior to gain power and she actually touches the guitar, which allows her to stay there even though she has been banished from the castle.

Sophie defeats her with a magical walking stick and howl finishes her off by destroying the witch’s heart. Sophie then returns Howell’s heart to his chest, breaking their curses and freeing scifi. This also restores Prince Justin and Wizard Soleman previously merged. By the witch bits and pieces, and Sophie becomes young again.

The ending is fast, funny, and ties up every romantic subplot with cleverness and magic, 

[01:04:43] Rebekah: including Right. The uh, Michael who loved what’s her face, Letty. And so Michael and Lety get together and something doesn’t, they open the flower shop. Justin’s gonna go tell his father the king not to start a war.

Yeah. So they like resolve everything. 

[01:04:57] Tim: And Solomon Wizard Solomon is now found and so he can also talk to his king that there is no need for war. Yeah. 

[01:05:05] Nathan: Okay. Magic science, you ready for this? So one of the differences, or I guess not the differences because Miss Ain Green is isn’t in the movie, but to explain the confused among us.

Um, the, one of the things with the magic is, uh, we mentioned that Howell’s heart is contained within Calcior. The concept behind that magic is, uh, actually explained in the movie with like Sophie giving up her braid. But in order to make a deal with a fire demon or which is a shooting star, um, you have to give up a piece of your life to the creature, like almost selling your soul, but really not, and it’s more literal.

And so we see how’s heart is contained with Enc Calcior. Which makes a really adorable figurative thing whenever Kafer is being obedient to Sophie and it’s like, ah, it’s How’s heart being obedient to Sophie? The difference though, the uplift. How is the witch of the waste gives her heart to Miss Andorian, who is the fire demon and the fire demon.

Miss Andorian actually takes over the witch of the waste like it’s. Mentioned that. Mm-hmm. The witch of the waste is kind of like lost control, and so when it looks like the witch of the waste is just shooting for how’s heart, the real goal was in the end with Turnip Head and the dog man the witch, or Miss an Gordian was trying to make the perfect wizard by taking the best parts of Prince Justin, the best parts of Wizard Solomon.

Then the best of them all Hal’s heart. And so that was that Wow when in the film, the Climax Centers on Stopping the War and saving Hal as the castle grumbles under Solomon’s attack, Sophie uses a magic ring to witness how’s pass seeing him give his heart the caler? Um, she returns to find Hal nearly lost to his bird form.

After the witch Gav gives back the heart. Sophie restores it to how breaking the curse turnip head saves them from falling. And a kiss from Sophie reveals him as Prince Justin with the prince returned and howl and Sophie in love. Solomon ends the war house of her chooses to stay and Sophie silver hair remains as a symbol of her growth.

The film skips the novels complex twists, offering a more emotional fairytale resolution with a focus on love and peace. A happy ending for everyone. But Prince Justin, who fell in love with Sophie and then just gets a kiss and then has to leave because Sophie fell in love with Hal. Rip him

[01:07:22] Tim: kissed and dismissed.

[01:07:23] Josiah: Well, he doesn’t get to die war. Just and dismiss another similarity between. And Stardust, I, sorry, I didn’t say it before. Shooting star. A fall, a fallen shooting Star. Star is 

[01:07:33] Donna: a big part of it is 

[01:07:33] Josiah: like a main character. I don’t, I don’t understand why there are so, and for me, the tone of Stardust and how’s moving Castle, both of them to me have a childlike tone.

Yeah. While dealing with very un child friendly mm-hmm. Concepts. 

[01:07:52] Donna: Mm-hmm. But that would mean Gayman took his nod from Jones because this was written before Artist first. Mm-hmm. Right.

[01:08:01] Josiah: I mean, I’d believe it. I don’t like Neil Gayman. 

[01:08:05] Rebekah: Being inspired by someone else’s work does not make you bad. No, 

[01:08:10] Josiah: no, no. Not at all.

That’s not the part I don’t like. Like 

[01:08:13] Nathan: the stars. But 

[01:08:15] Josiah: okay. 

[01:08:15] Donna: How does the book end though? 

[01:08:17] Josiah: I can’t believe we haven’t talked about that. Yeah. Yeah. The book ends with Sophie and how will admit their love amid playful bickering. All the subplots wrap up neatly, like you guys don’t understand. The focus is on Sophie reclaiming her confidence and, and like rejecting the belief that she’s, she like quote unquote doomed as the eldest.

Uh, like she had been told her whole life. It’s like, how do you say? It’s about overcoming self-doubt and learning to, to shape your own destiny. It’s very existentialist in that way, but the film here, here’s how the film ends. We haven’t talked about the film ending yet. It’s more romantic and visual. Of course, with the anime, beautiful Ghibli style with Sophie and Howell flying off together in a rebuilt castle along with their quirky found family.

Rebecca loved that part. The focus kind of shifts to like Sophie’s love transforming not just Howell, but the world around them. Like it’s not just their relationship that’s transformed her love and compassion basically end the destructive war too. It’s crazy. 

[01:09:22] Donna: We didn’t, we didn’t hit this anywhere in the comments.

I’ve been waiting to see if we got there and I’m not observant. I. So maybe I just totally brought this, made this up in my head, but I think Sophie going back and seeing Howell as a child and seeing what happens to him, which I thought was very emotional and touching, but then she said, look for me. Look for me how I know how to save you.

Or something like that in the movie. Do you think that we are supposed to connect that to when he comes up to her the first time he sees her in the movie and he’s like, I’m gonna be your escort today. I was like, oh my gosh. I actually put two things together that, but to different times in the movie 

[01:10:08] Josiah: Genius.

I never do that. Genius, huh? Genius Alert. 

[01:10:11] Rebekah: Yeah, 

[01:10:11] Josiah: because there you 

[01:10:12] Nathan: are, Sophie. I’ve been looking everywhere for 

[01:10:14] Rebekah: you. Yes. And, and that’s why we wanted to use the line at the beginning of the episode ’cause it is that you did so good. Is that 

[01:10:19] Donna: right? I’m not, yes. That’s 

[01:10:21] Nathan: completely right. 

[01:10:22] Donna: Yes. Because when she, oh my gosh, the podcast sees him as a child, I nearly fell out.

I was like, that was a moment I was ready to cry. I just thought it was really cool and it was also unexpected. 

[01:10:33] Josiah: When was this book released again? Oh my gosh, we haven’t looked it up 

[01:10:37] Donna: crazy. It was released just three months after my wedded, blissful Life began with my husband in April of 1986. 

[01:10:48] Rebekah: She knew she was inspired by 

[01:10:50] Donna: your love Probably, 

[01:10:51] Rebekah: yeah.

And helped her finish the book. She, Howell wasn’t inspired by dad because he sucks, but 

[01:10:57] Nathan: absolutely not. Howell 

[01:10:58] Rebekah: sucks. 

[01:10:58] Donna: Your dad doesn’t suck? 

[01:11:00] Rebekah: No. Howell sucks. Oh, 

[01:11:01] Donna: oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, so that’s why I wasn’t inspired by dad. How is, oh, he, he really, um, the movie release was in September of 2004 in Venice. It released on the fifth at the 61st Venice Film Festival, and then it released a couple weeks later, or, oh no, sorry, couple months later on November 20th, in 2004 in Japan, and then not until June 10th, 2005 in the US.

[01:11:34] Tim: Question a lot later. Yeah. Do we know if the 2005 release in the US was the English dubbed. Version, 

[01:11:42] Nathan: probably the sub or maybe both. 

[01:11:44] Tim: Well, don’t know. Subtitles would’ve been simple enough. But part of the reason I’m asking is the, the voice cast for the, uh, for the American, the English dub. Oh yeah. That’s, we’ve is that’s a star studded cast.

Yeah. We’ve got 

[01:11:59] Donna: absolutely, we’ve got trivia down there that, about these, about all the, I started reading the cast list and was going, what are we doing? I, I feel like I’ve walked into a world between my mother’s generation and my generation of these famous actors, and I was like, I love this. It, 

[01:12:14] Josiah: it seems like Disney released both, oh, a year later.

Interesting. It took a year for di for Walt Disney to release both the sub and the dub. Okay. Okay. I love that. Those rhyme. 

[01:12:27] Donna: You know, on good reads, the book is rated 4.29 out of five, which I, I can see that. Um, I’m like 

[01:12:34] Nathan: 0.5 rating for that. Yeah. Five rating. I, 

[01:12:37] Donna: um, movie rating on Rotten Tomatoes. Critics gave it an 88 Fresh, uh, IMDB.

It was 8.2 out of 10. It was pretty cool. The Flixter audience score was 93, so rot critics and audience were close there together. They both, they both liked it. It’s positive now. Interesting and something we don’t often see with stuff that we, uh, that we cover on the podcast. The production costs 24 million, uh, nice and low figure there.

But opening weekend of the June, 2005 Disney release. Was 428,000. The total USA Canada was 9.2 million. Okay. But the international gross was 232 million. Mm-hmm. The total coming to 241 million. And let me just say here, so at 10 x, which is great, yeah, yeah, for sure. But we don’t normally cover things that are so small.

In the United States and Canada and so large outside the, the country or outside the continent, I guess, and we’ll, we’ll get into that in a little bit. Uh, the first week the movie was released in Japan in November of 2004. The movie grossed 14.5 million. And the overall ticket sales in Japan, just that, just the con the one country we’re 190 million of the 232 gross.

So were so 

[01:14:06] Rebekah: nice. So then 42 million, which is still four times more than in the US came from other countries. That’s really interesting. 

[01:14:13] Donna: Yeah. It’s rated pg. I thought that’s fair. Uh, it was. Filmed, quote unquote made. Uh, the scenery was taken from Colemar in the allay region of France and the dramatic landscapes of Cornwall, England.

Those inspired the look and the feel of the anime production and the work was animated by Studio Gli. 

[01:14:36] Rebekah: Nathan, what are some of the other big Studio Ghibli films, uh, that people would’ve heard of? 

[01:14:40] Nathan: Some other people would’ve heard of Spirited Away. Probably the most popular Princess Mon Hano, which, uh, is one of the kids’ ones.

Um, delivery. Oh yeah, Kiki’s Delivery Service. That’s one of the, like, one of the biggest as well. Mm-hmm. Another one of the like kid classics. He got some of the small, we saw IGN 

[01:14:54] Josiah: theaters. That was probably the first one that me, mom and dad all saw together in theaters. Which one? We were so excited by the voice cast Ponyo about the Fish.

Boy, you guys hated it, but Yeah. And then 

[01:15:04] Nathan: there’s other ones you could, you do a long list, but like Naica, Poso, and, uh, the Wind Also Rises is probably the other ones. That’ll 

[01:15:12] Donna: Ghibli’s really been a. It’s really grown and and expanded and stuff, 

[01:15:16] Rebekah: and 

[01:15:16] Nathan: it’s got 

[01:15:17] Rebekah: a really 

[01:15:17] Nathan: loyal cult following too. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah.

The most recent, the Boy in the Heron. Really great movie. Hmm,

[01:15:25] Josiah: that 

[01:15:25] Rebekah: got familiar. Let’s talk about, I heard, I think I’ve heard of that one. I did not see it. Obviously it’s familiar. Well, maybe not. Obviously I’m not a big Studio Ghibli fan. Um, let’s talk about some interesting stuff, uh, we uncovered about the book and or film before, uh, heading towards the end of our episode.

[01:15:41] Josiah: Well, here’s another piece of trivia. The same voice actor for Heen Voice acted in Avatar, the last Airbender Oppa, and, uh, not Nemo. Oh my gosh. Oo. What the 

[01:15:54] Nathan: crap is his name? Yeah. Mumu or Avatar? The Flying Monkey. 

[01:15:58] Rebekah: I feel so stupid. He had a voice actor. 

[01:16:00] Nathan: Why would he not? Yeah, yeah. He 

[01:16:02] Rebekah: does his, Hey. 

[01:16:05] Josiah: Yeah. Deep Bradley Baker does these things.

[01:16:07] Rebekah: Oh, that’s great. Just have your old grandpa come in and cough in a mic. What do you need? That, 

[01:16:13] Nathan: that was 

[01:16:14] Rebekah: somebody, 

[01:16:15] Nathan: why would you not give the main character a voice actor? 

[01:16:19] Josiah: Momo Momo. Momo. 

[01:16:21] Rebekah: Yeah. Yeah. We’ve been saying that is not the main character. He’s definitely was. He’s the main animal character. 

[01:16:29] Josiah: Yeah.

This guy d Bradley Baker. He vo, he’s, he voiced every cartoon animal in the 2000 knots. 

[01:16:36] Donna: Wow. 

[01:16:37] Josiah: But you know what else happened that was trivia about this movie, Miyazaki’s version of the story differs from the novel containing stronger anti-war themes. In part maybe in most dude, his frustration over the Iraq war, which I’m sure affected Japan a lot.

So much so that it was assumed the movie wouldn’t be received well in the us. He also promoted positive old age content in the film. How dare he? Showing the audience that old age can be a positive thing. Which grants his protagonist, Sophie, her freedom. Wow. I wish that people who were trying to be like, yes, I, I wanted to make this story about anti-war and show, you know, positive old age content.

I hope that the Miyazaki guy, I hope he wasn’t like, and I’m doing this ’cause of all the dumb Americans. I hope it was just like, I want to put this out there. But, uh, the way that it’s described, maybe the way it’s translated sometimes makes, makes it a little less likable. 

[01:17:38] Tim: Well, Miyazaki had a. Seemed to want an anti-war message to be, to be a large part of that.

And, and that’s his privilege. He’s the director and he adjusted that. Uh, in contrast, however, uh, Diane Jones novel is all about exploring class and gender norms opposed to the destruction or the destructive effects of war. Miyazaki traveled to England in the summer of 2004, uh, to give her a preview of the film.

Jones was quoted as saying, it’s fantastic. No, I have no input. I write books, not films. Yes, it will be different from the book. In fact, it’s likely to be very different, but that’s as it should be. You know, we wonder sometimes if the writers of the original work really like the movies that are produced.

That are, you know, based on the book, those kinds of things. In this case, she recognized the book is one thing, the movie is another thing, and I’m okay with that. 

[01:18:37] Donna: Well, I think they asked her about interest in like, kind of making sure, kind of like they have with other authors. We’ve, we’ve seen too, they have some input and she was, I didn’t put it in that.

Particular one, but part of that interview, she was like, no, I, I wrote the book. I, I’m not into films. I’m giving them license. And she just left it there. So, 

[01:19:00] Rebekah: uh, Miyazaki also has a love of flying according to an article in the Asia Pacific Journal in 2006. That article’s author Margaret Talbot says, Miyazaki exhibits a profound dissatisfaction with modern life, particularly with the effects of technology and a disconnection from nature.

This is evident in the contrast between the lovely rolling hills and meadows against scenes of modernity, such as the one where Sophie’s reverie is interrupted by a war machine. 

[01:19:29] Nathan: That makes a lot of sense. Uh mm-hmm. To reference another Miyazaki film, the Wind also Rises where the main character is a plane designer, and one of the themes of the movie is they are making planes for war.

Uh, but the main character longs to make planes for like passengers and like actual, like for fun, for leisure. And so he, for leisure. And so he kind of goes along with the idea of like, yeah, uh, we just do this ’cause it’s the work we have in front of us. Um, but in the end, like it’s a little anti-war and.

Not as profound as House moving Castle. Um, but yeah. 

[01:20:03] Tim: What did you guys think about the personal air transports? I thought they looked like the, they stood on the outside of, would you like that kind of personal air, air travel? 

[01:20:15] Donna: It was odd. It’s 

[01:20:16] Tim: like a skateboard. Mm-hmm. 

[01:20:18] Nathan: With Wang. Yeah. 

[01:20:19] Donna: Um. So moving away from, from some discussion book to film like appearance and things, I had a few things about the people involved in voicing the movie.

Um, Christian Bale, after seeing Spirited Away, immediately showed interest in playing or vo voicing any role in house. He did not care which one, uh, but he wasn’t expecting to land the titular role in the English speaking version. The last animated film Bale was in. Was 1995 and he was in the film Pocahontas.

And I will say, listening to how throughout the film, I did hear a few Batman moments, uh, in He’s Batman. Yeah, yeah, for sure. 

[01:21:04] Nathan: This was also, uh, the last cinema film Gene Simmons was involved in ing the character of old Sophie Simmons from 1928 to 2010 was a famous actress with her most popular roles occurring in the 1950s and the 1960s.

Other famous cast members include Lauren Baal as the Witch of the Waist Blythe Wow. Banner as Madame Solomon and Billy Crystal Aser. 

[01:21:30] Josiah: So good. Does anyone know, I think mom or dad might, but does anyone know whose mother. Blythe Danner is, oh gosh, yes. And 

[01:21:38] Rebekah: I feel like I do. And you’re gonna say that, I’m gonna know, 

[01:21:40] Nathan: I was gonna throw out another random name and just say Joseph Danner, but I feel like that’ll turn out offensive again.

[01:21:45] Josiah: It is a different last name. 

[01:21:47] Donna: Uh, I, I’m sure I’ve seen it and I, but I don’t recall it. 

[01:21:51] Josiah: Live Danner is the mother of Gwyneth Paltrow. Oh, shoot. I knew it was somebody I would know. Sorry. Did you not know who Gwyneth Paltrow is? 

[01:21:58] Tim: I was, I was thinking he also doesn’t know who Gene Simmons was. So aside from No.

Ivo, his character. 

[01:22:04] Josiah: What a beautiful tribute he gave to her though. Do Okay. Hold on. 

[01:22:09] Nathan: Actually, this is really funny. Uh, I read our note on this, the trivia before reading and, uh, I feel like I’ve heard of Gene Simmons before. I probably would recognize some of the other roles I feel like. Um, but I was also thinking of young Sophie’s vo voice actress.

Mm-hmm. Who, uh, I don’t know about skills of voice acting, but I developed a minor voice crush on, uh, the young Sophie voice actor. Leave me alone. Rebecca. 

[01:22:35] Josiah: That’s adorable. She had a fun role in 30 Rock, Emily Mortimer. Mm-hmm. She was Alec Baldwin’s almost wife in season one. Yeah. Also, but she had avian, she had avian bird syndrome.

She had weak bones. 

[01:22:46] Rebekah: Oh gosh. So by the way, I just want you to know that every time the name Gene Simmons comes up, which I feel like I’ve heard the name before on podcast episodes, percent every time I think of Richard Simmons, oh, 

[01:22:56] Tim: well there’s also Simmons. But you never think of Gene Simmons from Kiss.

You don’t think of of 

[01:23:01] Rebekah: GENE Simmons from the lead singer in Kiss. I did not know that was the lead singer. Kiss name, long Tongue. I think that’s the right one. Jean? Yeah. JEAN. 

[01:23:09] Josiah: And GENE? Mm-hmm. Well, Josh, does anybody know the television show she 

[01:23:14] Rebekah: was on? No. 

[01:23:15] Josiah: Is it I 

[01:23:15] Tim: Dream of Jean. Thank you Margaret. It was the one.

The one with Archie Bunker. Yeah. 

[01:23:21] Rebekah: Oh, all in the family. So back to hows. Josh Hutcherson and Jenna Malone, voice Markle and Letty in the film, respectively, you’ll remember them from Hunger Games Fame, our original three episodes, by the way, were on the movie Woo uh, movies portraying Pita Malar and Joanna Mason.

[01:23:39] Josiah: You know, I was asking, I wanted to like impress you all with like, oh, did you also know this tiny little part was also shared by this and that? So I asked Chat, GPT and they completely hallucinated if there were any, uh, other actor connections between Hals Moon and Castle and Hunger Games franchise. I didn’t even say other, like I was hoping they would mention Josh Hutcherson and Jenna Malone.

At the very least, they said yes. There is an interesting connection. Lauren Ambrose voices Sophie in Howell’s moving Castle, and she also plays Tigress in the Hunger Games franchise. My 

[01:24:13] Nathan: favorite 

[01:24:13] Josiah: Charact and I look both of them up. Neither of those are true. 

[01:24:17] Donna: I was gonna say, I don’t know that name. AI Hallucination.

[01:24:21] Josiah: Thank you. And I say both of those are categorically false, and it says you’re absolutely right. I apologize for the confusion. Yeah. Sophie was voiced by this other person, and Lauren, while Lauren Ambrose played a completely different role in another film. And then I said, is there any, any other connection?

And they said, well, Christian Bale was directed by Director Gary Ross in Sea Biscuit, who directed the first Hunger Games. 

[01:24:52] Nathan: I 

[01:24:52] Josiah: love it. So it’s pushing Gail. 

[01:24:53] Nathan: That’s my 

[01:24:54] Josiah: favorite movie. Oh yeah. Okay. Okay. Two Degrees of Separation. 

[01:24:57] Tim: Boy, I hope we depend on AI all the time.

[01:25:04] Donna: Also house was nominated for an Oscar for Best animated feature at the 78th Academy Awards, but lost to Raw Wallace and Grommet. The curse of the were rabbit. 

[01:25:18] Tim: Don’t say anything bad about it. I enjoyed it. I haven’t seen it. I think it’s the wear rabbit 

[01:25:23] Rebekah: mom. 

[01:25:24] Tim: Where W’s the rabbit. 

[01:25:25] Donna: ERE is were, well, when it’s like, yeah.

But wear rabbit is how you describe werewolf. Reboot Affected by war. A canopy war. No war. 

[01:25:36] Josiah: Did you know I heard this from multiple, I’ve got very into the Oscars this year. Mm-hmm. And so leading up, I was following all of awards season and so the BAFTAs, you know, the BAFTAs are the British Oscars. Mm-hmm.

Basically, it was a very interesting thing this year. It wasn’t a big surprise that this, that the following happened, but this year, I believe was the first year at the BAFTA that a Wallace and Grommet movie was nominated but didn’t win. I think every, they’re popular. That’s great that it’s ever nominated.

It always wins. Best animated film. Whoa. And. At least once it was nominated for Best Picture, best Film of the year, and it won. Wow. So it won in 2006. 

[01:26:21] Donna: So then how old shouldn’t feel bad from losing? Mm. Wallace? No. It’s kind of like going up against Wallace because, you know 

[01:26:27] Tim: Yeah. The Lord of the Rings. 

[01:26:29] Nathan: Yeah.

I was gonna say, uh, I do love the Wallace and Grommet films. I’ve never seen the Curse of the Wear Rabbit, but, uh, obviously I’m biased to this film and it makes me a little upset that how did not get the award. 

[01:26:42] Tim: Yeah. The the sad thing for me about those awards is that both of those deserved, uh, the awards probably.

Mm-hmm. And there are other years where it’s like, oh yeah, well, given nothing, the ones we got to look at. Here’s one that is real. Can I pick one from a previous year Real? Yeah, exactly that. Truth 

[01:26:59] Josiah: on reality, it’s, it’s really tough because this year I was so, so bummed that wild robot barely lost the Oscar For animated picture.

What did choose 

[01:27:10] Rebekah: to 

[01:27:11] Josiah: flow Some Lithuanian Flow animated film about a cat. What is this garbage on up or something? I need to see it. It’s the only, it’s literally the only Oscar winner. Other than the documentaries and the shorts that I didn’t see. 

[01:27:24] Nathan: Actually I, this actually looks like an interesting movie. I remember seeing it.

Yeah. 

[01:27:27] Josiah: It better ’cause Wild Robot was like an a plus type movie or at least an a, the ending scene for 

[01:27:32] Nathan: Flow, the art style for Flow Looks style really hot. 

[01:27:36] Josiah: Did you see Wild Robot Art style’s also great in that? 

[01:27:38] Nathan: Oh, I read Wild Robot. I loved the book. He’s read the whole trilogy. Yeah, I’ve read the whole trilogy.

Okay. Um, I almost was featured on that one with the whole commune. Um mm-hmm. Throwback, uh, my version of that episode, the book was better for me. 

[01:27:55] Josiah: It’s a good book. It’s a really good book. Baby 

[01:27:57] Donna: listeners, if you have not heard our wild robot coverage, need to go back and grab that episode. 

[01:28:04] Nathan: I’m just giving you all the shameless plugs.

Mm-hmm. Like just Thank you. Put the links in the bio anyways. Yeah, well it 

[01:28:09] Josiah: pulls the shame off us. 

[01:28:10] Nathan: The movie was amazing. The book was amazing, but it’s just, I am always like, I love Theater of the Mind when reading and the movie just didn’t match my theater of the mind. You and Rebecca. Yeah. I like the book.

Even Advance Well, 

[01:28:25] Josiah: well, you know, house was a, a very popular movie, but it, it’s not the most financially successful film in Japan, but it is third place. It’s the third most successful film in Japan. Do you know what the two before it are? 

[01:28:39] Nathan: I do not, but I can read the notes. Blockbusters. 

[01:28:43] Josiah: The biggest blockbuster ever until recent years.

Yes. Titanic is number one and the most popular studio Ghibli film is number two, spirited Away. Fantastic film. 

[01:28:56] Rebekah: So as our mini game today, Nathan, would you like to tell us what happens in the trilogy that, uh, pre, no, not precedes, what’s the word, comes after anyway, the scene comes after. Hows 

[01:29:08] Nathan: seed? Six Seeds.

So there are two, uh, books after, uh, how’s Moving Castle, by Diana Wynn Jones. Uh, the second one is Castle in the. Air, I believe, not to be confused with Castle in the Sky. I probably did confuse those titles. Um, castle in the Sky is another Ghibli film that does not correlate to the book. Um, the third book, uh, is House of Many Ways.

Um, the relevant of information is, uh, how, and Sophie get Married. They have one kid named Morgan in the second book and in the third book I do believe they have, um, a fort, a second kid. And, uh, I forget the name, but it’s like an actually like really funny name. Um, but yeah, so in the second book, it’s placed in more of like an Arabic desert.

Uh. Themed place where the main character finds a magic carpet, falls asleep on the carpet and gets taken to a castle in the air, uh, where he meets Flower of the Night. A princess that, uh, he falls in love with. Uh, the princess gets stolen by a gin, uh, who has some overarching plot to like, give him himself a bunch of power.

And, uh, Abdullah, I believe is the main character’s name, has to pursue the love of his life, the princess, um, and rescue her from the gin along with a bunch of other princesses along with the running theme that runs. Throughout, actually I think all three books, people get turned into other stuff. And so just like we had the Dog man and uh, the Scarecrow, um, it’s actually Hal, Sophie and their kid Morgan that get turned into how gets turned into an old soldier.

And, uh, Sophie and uh, Morgan get turned into cats. And so Morgan is this cute little kitten and Sophie actually complains after that it was much easier to take care of Morgan as a cat and she wanted to do whatever. Um, the magic systems are very confusing actually, uh, in both books. Um, and House Moving Castle, it is a lot more like the whimsical magic.

There’s nothing that’s really like pinned down. Uh, you got the gins, there’s a bunch of random creatures. It’s like wishes, there’s like spells and all this such, uh, it gets really bad in the. Third book where, uh, forget the character’s names. I think Champlain is one of them, but there’s, uh, a girl who, uh, goes to house sit or her uncle who’s a wizard, who it’s like a two room house, but there’s a door in the middle that if you walk through the door in a certain way, there’s different paths, different rooms.

You get to an office, you get to like an outlook and it’s this really confusing thing. One of them is also a library where she hunts through like the books and tries making these spells. Um, the boy that joins her is actually trying to apprentice with the wizard and goes through and makes a bunch of stuff.

She gets like taken to the castle. I didn’t actually finish the third book. Um, it kinda lost me. I’m gonna be honest. Uh, my favorite is the second book. That one sort of felt easier to follow. I thought it was, uh, also an interesting romantic plot. But yeah, two extra books year, similar length. 

[01:32:02] Donna: They’re not super long, but not super short.

Similar 

[01:32:04] Nathan: length as well. And then, yeah, um. In the third book, Sophie is mentioned from what I’ve read, where she’s running around the castle chasing Morgan and her other kid and complaining about kids and like, ugh, kids are so much. Um, and Hal’s mentioned as one of the great wizards that’s out doing something with whatever.

But yeah, so how, and Sophie do get mentioned, uh, later in the series. Uh, but the other books follow other characters and very entertaining. Uh, if you can follow along with the other books, I would recommend them. Uh, my favorite is a second book Castle in the Air. Um, but yeah, 

[01:32:40] Rebekah: I will say that I looked it up and I couldn’t find a third or a second child between them.

But Howell pretends to be Sophie’s nephew named Twinkle, so I don’t know if that’s the child figure. Gotcha. 

[01:32:51] Nathan: That might have been it. 

[01:32:51] Tim: Yeah. When I read the descriptions of the books, it almost sounded like the second and third, the second book wasn’t about Howell and Sophie and the third book. Was, so just the descriptions of the books that I, I looked at and those were just the synopsis.

[01:33:07] Rebekah: Well, lots of interesting stuff there. Uh, let’s wrap up to give our final verdicts as a reminder. We’re now adding a rating that we’re each giving the book and film separately out of 10, as well as whether or not we think the book or the film was better. And I don’t mind going first. I have been thinking about this quite a bit.

Um, I wasn’t a huge fan of either of these. Nathan picked them knowing that they’re not necessarily my personal preference for like plot and things like that. I would say I’d probably give the movie like a 5.5 if you put it on in the background while we’re washing dishes. Like, I don’t care. I didn’t hate it.

It wasn’t bad. It’s not something I’m ever gonna be like, can we please watch this movie? Um, the book for me, uh, I would say is actually a six. Like I would consider reading this again. Um, I liked it more than I ended up liking the book, Stardust, even though they have a lot of similarities in like magic system and themes and things like that.

So for me the book was like a smidge better. But neither of these are things that I’m like gonna really go back to. I guess if we’re being more fair, you know what, I’m gonna change it. I think my final rating is the movies of 4.5. The book’s a five ’cause I don’t wanna give the five more than, uh, the book.

More than that. Wow. It’s not something I’m as likely to go back and read. So that is how I felt. I think the movie is gorgeous. I was very thrown by the war angle. Not just ’cause I’d read the book, but I felt like. It changed the point, like too much for me. Um, it just threw me off how much it changed, things like that.

And I did think that the movie did a better job of introducing the romance and making it feel more clearly romantic. The book was definitely more confusing. Howell had a lot more depth to him, but not all of that was good depth. But I thought that the book was a more enjoyable experience than the movie that I had trouble focusing on even to get through it.

So 

[01:35:03] Donna: well. I, uh, I’ve found throughout this experience on doing the podcast, it has stretched my reading out of just a very narrow, I would pick this thing, oh, I’ll try this. Well, somebody said to really try and I might, and I might like it or not. But as we’ve gone through this experience nearly two years, which is so exciting, uh, we’re headed toward two years.

Um, we’ve chosen some things that I knew I liked already or I’d already read, but we’ve also chosen new things like this and like Wild Robot and Mickey seven. And I, there’s been several, but I found, while I’m not a huge follower of anime, uh, I was captivated by the movie. It had a positive, I had a very positive experience watching it.

Um, I agree. The book got a little more convoluted than I could keep up with. So if I, I would say book, I would go to a five with the book. Um, but I’m gonna give the movie, um. 7.5 i, I would watch it again. I, I decided when they got into such a heavy war angle toward the end, even though they, it comes up through the movie, but when they got to the heavy war angle, I just chose to see that as a way for Sophie to be even more resolved to love and save Howl.

And so it enhanced the love story for me. And then when I picked up the time thing of, oh my goodness, he did remember her from his childhood. He found her. And, um, she is obviously not the kind of girl he would just go after according to his reputation. And so that whole love story, uh, became the, became the focus for me.

And, um, as you said, Rebecca, it’s visually, it’s a lovely, um. The colors are deep and drastic, and when you see the door that opens into the wasteland, it’s gray and stark. And so I thought that was super effective. Um, so I’m gonna give it to the movie. Um, and thanks for, for, uh, recommending it, Nathan. I’m, uh, I’m glad we did it.

Um, every one we’ve done that’s been new, hasn’t been, Ooh, this was pretty cool. It’s been okay. It was interesting and I learned some things, but I, I really enjoyed this one. 

[01:37:42] Josiah: Well, I think that this story didn’t quite, uh, connect with me in the way that it connected with a lot of people. Obviously it was very popular.

It was a beautiful film. And I think that although the film’s big emphasis on, I. Anti-war messages, slightly distracted from the love story and the themes of self-discovery. I do think that the film made a lot of little changes that streamlined the story and obviously the visual of the movie is a huge part of why it is, has lasting influence and it is iconic and absolutely beautiful.

So I will give this, I’ll edge it out to the film because of the iconic visuals especially, but also some of the, some of the little changes that we talked about, they more than other adaptations, I feel like they really added up. Mm-hmm. They slowly added up towards like, oh, this is simpler in the movie.

Oh, this is more streamlined in the movie. Oh yeah. This isn’t as needlessly complicated in the movie sort of thing. Although the, the book is delightful. I think that there’s, it’s a very whimsical, in a lot of ways, I am confused about the tone of some of these very serious issues dealt with in a childlike manner.

I feel like the book Start, the book and movie both start out, especially the book with a very captivating idea for me that she feels like her sisters are gonna get a better life than her. And, oh, this sister gets to do this cool thing. This other sister gets to do this cool thing 

[01:39:35] Nathan: because I’m the eldest.

Because I’m the eldest. That’s what I’m doomed. Yeah. That’s Sophie’s comment. Like, any inconvenience happened? And she’s like, well, I’m the eldest. 

[01:39:43] Josiah: So that was captive. That gripped me at the beginning. Mm-hmm. And then the story both in movie and book were like, yeah, it’s not really about that. I was like, oh, okay.

Well that, I feel like that’s a theme that could, uh. Carry over. It’s great for children and it’s great for adults to think about sibling rivalry, to think about, uh, familiar relationships and stuff like that. And then it was like, okay, it’s about, uh, being old and how that is kind of a scary thing, but maybe we can make the best of a situation.

It’s like, okay, that’s an interesting thing for like a, a child, a family friendly story to explore. It’s like, oh, you know, old people aren’t just disgusting, smelly people. They’re, they’re not even that smelly. They’re kind of cool in some ways. There’s cool things about having just a different view of yourself in that way, and then it’s like, oh, well that’s not really what the story’s about either.

Okay. What’s it about? Well, it’s about slavery. Oh, okay. In this, in this, uh, children’s tone type story that can be whimsical. I mean, I love wild robot. You can have whimsy and you can have serious, so it’s like, okay, there is, there’s some war, there’s some politicking going on. It’s like, okay, this is not a story for children.

Yeah. What is this? What is the why? Why is it tonally like the first two Harry Potter books? It’s very whimsical, magical. Oh, these crazy little things are happening. Uh, it’s very fairy tale esque, which is great, which is fine. But similar to my problems with Neil Gaiman, I just. Didn’t quite understand what the original writer was going for.

And I mean, the book was fine. I’ll get a five outta 10. Uh, even a six out of it would probably be a little higher if it was more your genre. If you like Stardust, you’ll probably like this. I don’t know. I, I keep finding similarities between the two, but the movie I’ll give, if it’s like visuals, you know, give it a 10, outta 10 on visuals.

Mm-hmm. But, you know, you, you have to still consider the story. So, you know, it’s like a six and a half, seven for me. On the whole, the total package, the film. 

[01:41:54] Tim: Okay. Well, um, I think that given the fact that this is way outside of, of what I would normally read of all of us here, except possibly for Nathan, um, I actually love animation and anime is legitimately, primarily just Japanese animation.

Mother doesn’t like animated films. It’s just mom. Well, I, I, I’ve always enjoyed animation and this animated film was the type of anime that, that I have no problem with. I don’t like to watch things like yugi o There are some, there are some changes in anime that, that to me are just jarring and, and I can’t follow the story.

I 

[01:42:40] Josiah: think Yu is American Anime. Yeah. Well, just so no one yells at him in the comments. Okay. 

[01:42:46] Tim: Well, I’m, I’m. I don’t follow it. I like, I like animation and, and I’ve seen a lot of different things that are animation from one extreme to the other. I feel like, um, I would give the film, um, I’m gonna be generous and give the film a six.

Um, I thought it was visually beautiful. I had trouble with some of the changes, uh, from the book. I understand you have to get rid of some stuff. You always have to cut. That’s always what happens. Um, but I felt like some of the story was more odd than it needed to be. So, so I would give the movie a six.

Visually, absolutely stunning, beautiful parts. Like I said, the, the mirror part was a, was one for me. Um, I would probably give the book a 6.5. There again, it’s not really, uh, things that I would go back to. That I would listen to again or, or want to read again. It’s kind of outside of my wheelhouse, uh, in a lot of ways.

So I would, I would give it to the book, you know, just edge it out to the book. Uh, ’cause I was, I was a little more confused with some of the, some of the choices in the film. Uh, getting rid of a lot of the complicatedness in the book. I understood. But. So that’s me. 

[01:44:05] Nathan: I will say, uh, I need to give a thanks to you guys for doing this book and letting me on the podcast.

Thank you. We love it. We appreciate it having you as much as, yes, as much as like the book is very, like, I’ll be honest, it was hard for me to follow the book. Um, I came into this a bit differently. Um, I had watched the film and fell in love with the film. It is one of my favorite movies. Um, and I was actually really excited to read the book when I found out there’s a book version, especially because the book’s way more dramatic than the movie.

I was like, oh, this is gonna be my favorite. It was hard to follow. I think I mentioned to some of you guys while discussing the podcast, I’ve separated the two in my mind, uh, where it’s not like, which is a. Better version of the story, but I kind of see this as, which is a better story because they’re so different.

Mm-hmm. It’s like they really are, yeah. It feels only stories, it feels fair to me to go like, Hey, which story do I like more? Knowing that they’re like the same story, but I don’t wanna, it’s helped me enjoy the book more. Uh, spoil alert that, like seeing it as a different story because Miyazaki takes a lot of creative freedoms.

He uses a lot of like, used materials to like make his movies and he like is a completely different storyteller. For me, the book would probably get around a, maybe like a 5.5. I’m a pretty big fan of the book. I don’t think I would read it very often. I like the chaos and the magic system and all the such, but it wasn’t crazy easy to follow.

And I mean, to each their own. I think it’s a great thing for some people, but, uh. I was actually a little disappointed when I went into it. Uh, having high expectations because I love the film. For the film, I would definitely give it like 8.59, 9.5 really high for me. You can just say 9.5. Well, I was feeling like 8.5 ’cause as much as it, I really like it.

I don’t like giving perfect scores to stuff very often because it’s like there’s a little bit of Ram Remove. I am, uh, a little bit of an antithesis of Rebecca. I. Absolutely love character growth and self discovery. One of the reasons I, I think most people do well. Yeah. One of the reasons I love this movie so much is because I’ve resonated with Howell and Sophie so much, and so it was really nice having a movie where like the coward overcomes his fears, especially because it’s, ugh, it’s for love and like what’s better than changing for the person you love?

I love Miyazaki’s expression in a lot of his movies. He doesn’t have the usual expression of like, girl and a guy meet and they just kiss as much as possible. It’s like, no. It’s like, what if we actually meet and make each other a better person? And I love that and I love Miyazaki’s Studios, and so I think in the end, like.

I really like the movie a lot better, especially because I love Miyazaki storytelling. I love his expression. I love the way he dabbles in nature. And like even like, I’m gonna be honest with the stuff with like the Iraqi war, it’s like you’re making a political statement in a movie that feels really crazy to me.

But I think in the end I have to give it to the movie, like with that 9.5 because I just love the deep story telling. I love the character growth. I love the inspiration. I think it’s adorable. It’s a comfort movie for me. And yeah, 

[01:47:20] Rebekah: also for context on how much we love you and know that you love this movie.

I think like 80% of the presents we got you for Christmas this year were How’s Moving Castle Themed, 

[01:47:29] Josiah: or at least Studio Ghibli. Yeah, studio. I finally pointed out 

[01:47:33] Nathan: I have the How Mo, how’s Moving Castle, uh, earring. And then I’m pretty sure I flared this before, but I. Heart’s a heavy burden, which this was a surprise gift.

Mm-hmm. Um, literally one of the best gifts I’ve ever received from Rebecca. 

[01:47:47] Rebekah: Yay. Yay. I’m so bad at gift giving. 

[01:47:50] Nathan: I’m, I’m very picky when it comes to gifts and I hate getting stuff for like right now. Like I’m getting over it. But I hate getting stuff that, like, this wasn’t on my list. I wanted this specifically, but I like open this and I’m pretty sure I cried.

Yeah. Because I love it. Yeah, it is amazing. Also, it’s a comfy sweatshirt. Why would you not love that? Who doesn’t 

[01:48:10] Rebekah: Love 

[01:48:11] Nathan: that. 

[01:48:11] Rebekah: Well, thank you guys so much. This has been a great episode. Uh, baby listeners, if you enjoyed the episode, I would say you know what to do, but only superfan. Seth has left us a review in the last little while, so maybe you forgot that that’s how you respond to an episode that you love as you go review.

Thank you. Super fan, Seth. Yes. Thank you Superfan. Seth? Yes. Seth is trying to figure out which episode he can, uh, be a guest on. So if you wanna be a guest on our podcast, maybe start by reviewing us. Okay. I’m just kidding. Uh, I mean, I’m not actually kidding. Okay. We’re on Patreon as well and would love to have your support.

You can subscribe for free just to get updates of new episodes or as part of a paid tier. We also are active on X Instagram and Facebook at Book is Better Pod. And if you wanna send us feedback, ask questions for us to answer on future episodes or just have fun with us ’cause we’re pretty cool, uh, you can join our free Discord server.

The link is in the episode description. And, uh, until next time, find me in the future with our next episode, which is on a really, really weird movie too. 

[01:49:18] Josiah: Woo. And then Josiah turns into a bird. Kaka.

Listener, there you are. I know if the book is better, find me in the podcast.

So mother’s beautiful segue what isn’t In Wales, I asked chat, JBT what is not in Wales, and its answer was five things. The Eiffel Tower, the Great Wall of China, 

[01:54:55] Donna: French. Random. Random, the 

[01:54:57] Josiah: Sahara Desert, 

[01:54:58] Donna: uh, right, the Grand 

[01:55:00] Josiah: Canyon, and get this number five. It’s supposed to be Moon. Moon in the United States.

Moon, 

[01:55:06] Rebekah: it does not make the moon. The moon is not in Wales. I demand a recount. It has a 

[01:55:11] Josiah: little, it has a little after thing that says no moon bases yet in Wales. 

[01:55:16] Rebekah: So.