S01E08 — New Moon & Eclipse

SPOILER ALERT: This episode and transcript below contains major spoilers for The Twilight Saga, including all four books, all five movies, Stephenie Meyer’s supplementary books Midnight Sun and The Short Second Life of Bree Tanner.

Featuring hosts Timothy Haynes, Donna Haynes, Rebekah Edwards, and T. Josiah Haynes.

Batching the second and third books/films is honestly something we think could have benefited the entire Twilight Saga. Our family discusses the differences between the original books and their films.

We also give a recap of The Short Second Life of Bree Tanner, a supplemental book from Meyer about the newborn, Bree, killed by the Volturi near the end of Eclipse.

Don’ t miss our other episodes from The Twilight Saga!

Final Verdicts

If you haven’t listened to the episode yet, we recommend waiting to read our verdicts. (But you’re probably grown, so do what you want!)

We mostly preferred the movies for both New Moon and Eclipse compared to their books, partly due to the dark mental state Bella experienced in the first of the IPs and the action sequences included in Eclipse.

Tim: The films are both better

Donna: The films are both better

Rebekah: The books are both better

Josiah: New Moon is a better book than movie, but Eclipse‘s movie is better than the book

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Full Episode Transcript

Prefer reading? Check out the full episode transcript below. It’s AI-generated from our audio, and if we’re being honest… no one sat to read the entire thing for accuracy. (After all, we were there the whole time.) 😉 We’re sorry in advance for any typos or transcription errors.

[00:00:00] Rebekah: Jacob’s not a better choice. He’s just aggressive. You should see a therapist. You have depression for

[00:00:10] Josiah: a thousand years. These books will last a

[00:00:18] Rebekah: thousand more.

[00:00:21] Josiah: We’re an experimental podcast.

[00:00:41] Rebekah: Welcome to the book is better. We are an audio only podcast. It is a clean podcast comparing book to film adaptations. So we like to talk about how books are just way better than movies and how all of us just hate movies.

[00:00:54] Josiah: Wow. No they’re the worst. Yeah.

[00:00:58] Rebekah: Okay. How do we let her talk first?

So we talk about major differences between books and the films they were that ins they were inspired by. No. Books and the films that inspi inspired them? None of that made sense. No, you switched both.

[00:01:12] Josiah: No, you switched one. And the films That were inspired.

[00:01:16] Rebekah: We’re inspired by those books. I

[00:01:18] Josiah: think that’s closer.

You’re doing great. That was a passive voice, we’ll work on it. We’ll get Chas GPT next time. The strategy

[00:01:25] Rebekah: did help me for one item on this outline today, but don’t tell anybody except I’m telling anybody. We

[00:01:31] Josiah: will not tell anybody. OK,

[00:01:33] Rebekah: great. Good to be with you guys again. Do you want to hear the fun fact we recorded?

What fun facts? We’re going to fun fact. Oh, you want to talk about our fun fact?

[00:01:44] Josiah: Yeah, yeah. As part of our introductions, we always talk about a fun fact about each of us along with our introduction. So today’s fun fact is going to be. What is your favorite podcast or type of podcast? And I’m Josiah, the brother son of the family group.

And I really don’t want to reveal how nerdy I am, but I have listened to every episode of one podcast. And that is a Game of Thrones podcast that has been going on since 2015. Primarily about the show, some about the books, some about just random Game of Thrones news. Game of Thrones has been off the air for four, four and a half years.

I’m still listening to it and I’m obsessive. I have an obsessive personality. I can’t stop listening to it. It’s called the Game of Thrones podcast. Wow.

[00:02:41] Rebekah: Reached for that name,

[00:02:44] Josiah: I think.

[00:02:45] Tim: I can go next. My name is Tim. I’m the husband and dad of this crew. And what I am I am a podcast listener over the last probably year and a half.

And one of my favorite podcasts is the Jordan B. Peterson podcast. That’s a long form podcast and I also listen to a creation live podcast, which is about 20 minutes long. I like both of those.

[00:03:17] Josiah: I am

[00:03:18] Donna: Donna. I’m the wife and mom of the group. And I love all your podcasts and they’re fun, but I’m still stuck back on my favorite go to about Harry Potter.

So I’ve heard a number of podcasts about Harry Potter. The most recent one I’ve listened to that I like is now done with their podcast there. They worked through all the books, but I picked them up late. And so it’s called Owl Post and it’s a part of a group of podcast folk that call themselves the nerd party.

And they don’t know me at all except that I listened to their podcasts, but I’ll plug for them. They’ve got some great episodes. about all things nerd um, Star Trek, Star Wars, uh, the Marvel universe. They dive into all kinds of things. And I found Outpost, I don’t know, maybe a year ago, and I really enjoy it.

I like the perspective. I’d heard some before with younger people doing it, and the folks that are doing Outpost aren’t my age, but they’re probably… closer to Josiah and Rebecca’s age, and so their perspectives are pretty cool. And I’ve been enjoying that.

[00:04:48] Rebekah: I love it. I’m Rebecca. I’m the sister slash daughter

[00:04:53] Donna: of the group.

[00:04:55] Rebekah: So good to be here. This is like all throwing me off. We’re doing it at night. We never record at night. I’m so like, it’s so exciting. I don’t know something about it’s different. I do like to listen to podcasts. I have a list that I’m just going to spout off that I like. And then I’m going to tell you my favorite one.

Okay, you ready? So I really like the Craig Rochelle leadership podcast. If you want to learn how to be a great leader, short podcast episodes. I listened to the real weird sisters for a long time who did one of those chapter by chapter Harry Potter rundowns, similar to outposts, but like different format and stuff.

I really enjoyed that. Although I will confess that I did not finish the podcast cause I started listening to a bunch of others. I like Science Versus and there’s a podcast that is called Blurry Creatures that a bunch of people I know listen to that I’ve just recently started that’s about Bigfoot and all sorts of.

Animals and like mythical things that maybe aren’t mythical and it’s cool, but my favorite type of podcast is actually Dungeons and Dragons podcasts because actual play podcast for some reason, just draw me in a way nothing else ever has. And doesn’t have to be Dungeons and Dragons.

I also like just all TTRPG real play. And so I like one called spout lore, which is really fun. They don’t play D and D. They play a different system, but they are hilarious. There’s tons of seasons. But my very favorite podcast, please don’t laugh at me. I think you guys all judge me every time I say this, but it’s called Dungeons and Daddies.

The subtitle is not a BDSM podcast because it is, it’s not clean, but it’s not about that. It’s about Dungeons and Dragons. And it is so funny. Like the guys on the podcast. Oh, there is, it’s not just guys. There is a lady. They they just, the first season is like playing dad archetypes in D& D characters.

And it just tickles. Me to the point of like hysterical laughter every time I

[00:06:47] Josiah: didn’t know that we were allowed to have six favorite podcasts

[00:06:51] Rebekah: I just like when you ask a question that broad what do you want for me? You don’t

[00:06:56] Josiah: oh my goodness. I also my runners up are the Sopranos podcast that started like the week of pandemic lockdowns March 2020 two actors from the Sopranos started rewatching episodes and talking about it and having guests on.

And I love Sopranos and also the it’s always sunny in Philadelphia. Podcast is another runner up for me because I think it’s a really special podcast because it’s the main actors and the creators are the same people.

[00:07:28] Donna: And the other kind, I would say if I had to pick a second kind of listen to. I

[00:07:31] Rebekah: like true crime.

Oh my gosh. I forgot to mention any of those. Too bad. I’m sorry. We got to move on. I’m so sorry. I’ll have to get a list up. Maybe if you guys follow me on Twitter or follow us on Twitter, we’ll just drop links to all our favorite podcasts. Who cares? I love it. I also wanted for you, dear listener to take some really good feedback we had from some of our existing listeners.

Who really like the structure of like how we do these episodes because we actually are working from a pretty complex amount of research We work a lot to make sure that we get into these episodes Knowing what we’re talking about having planned out like what to discuss and in what order and all that so I’m going to give you a little rundown on that and I’ll explain it as we go so that what’s coming up, what we’re talking about, all that.

We’re also adding a couple of additions to try and make sure that the structure makes sense, but we’ll still be discussion based. I just wanted to share that. So the first thing we talk about is typically a quick plot summary. So we just want to refresh you. Basically, anybody that has not heard or watched the movie or listened to an audio book or read the book or whatever, we want you to just have an idea of what’s going on, even the second section.

Yeah, even if you have, it’s good for a refresher, honestly. And then we talk about what the major differences were. So what they changed when they adapted a film from a book, because obviously. Books are not screenplays as much as Rebecca would like them to be. And so to this episode, we’re actually going to divide those major differences into three different types, which we’ll get to when we get there.

And then basically after that we talk a little bit about basic trivia about the movie. And book but like when it opened, how much money it made interesting things that happened on set and any interesting things we learn about the book. Cause we like to know a little bit of the lore behind.

The process of creating, because we think that’s really cool. And then we will generally do little minigame or discuss some criticisms of the book or film or things like that. And then at the very end of the episode, we give a final verdict. And so each of us give our kind of final review of whether or not we think the book was better.

And Or if we thought the movie was better and why and so yeah, I just wanted to introduce that a little bit and with that I will also tell you we are going to spoil all of the Twilight series including potentially the short life, sorry, the short second life of Brie Tanner, a novella that Stephanie Meyer published in 2010 and It has to do with a character that appears in the third book and film named Brie.

And so this is your spoiler alert. We are going to spoil it. We’re going to talk about all of Twilight. We’re going to discuss potentially like things that happen in the fourth book. So just be aware of the spoiler.

[00:10:19] Josiah: So the plot summary. is as follows. We’re doing both New Moon and Eclipse, so I’m gonna start with New Moon.

After a near fatal incident at Bella’s birthday party, Edward and his family leave town, plunging Bella into depression. She finds Solace. I’m sorry. I loved that reaction in unison. She finds solace in Jacob Black, who later becomes a werewolf. Sorry, this is the first time we’ve edited down the plot summary to try to make it not take time.

And it is speeding through the plot. All right. Bella also breaks her promise to Edward by recklessly risking her safety time and time again so that she can hallucinate his voice. When a misunderstanding leads Edward to believe that Bella has died, Edward seeks death from the Volturi, who are an ancient family of vampires over in Italy.

Bella and Alice rush to Italy to save him. The Cullens return to Forks after he is successfully saved, and after a family vote, it’s decided Bella will become a vampire. Edward proposes, setting the stage for her transformation after graduation. Then we move on to the third book in the Twilight Saga, Eclipse.

Bella is torn between her love for Edward and her friendship for, friendship with Jacob, who aspires for more than friendship. Of course, Edward being a vampire, Jacob being a werewolf. They hate each other but a vision reveals that Victoria has created an army of newborn vampires to attack the Cullens.

To protect Bella, Victoria’s target, the werewolves and the Cullens form an alliance. Before the climactic battle, Bella acknowledges her feelings for Jacob, but chooses Edward. The newborns and Victoria are defeated, and Jacob leaves town heartbroken as Bella accepts Edward’s marriage proposal.

[00:12:29] Rebekah: So let’s talk about some of the major differences. So the structure that we use is always that we’ve had a list to work from and just whatever we wanted to discuss. This time we’re going to discuss them in three sections. So we’ve got differences in plot and timeline, differences in actors and how they’re characterized or actors and characterization.

And then differences in setting. So let’s start with the plot. What do we want to

[00:12:54] Josiah: point out? In the books, Jasper, Rosalie and Emmett all graduate high school the previous year, leaving only Alice and Edward at school. Jasper is in senior year with the rest of them in the second and third movies. So there’s a I think in the movies they just simplify.

how many of the siblings are in high school at the same time. Which I think is fine. I think in the books, it was good to have a more detailed backstory and in the movie, I think it was the right choice to just simplify things.

[00:13:28] Rebekah: I got confused at first when we, when I watched New Moon recently, cause I was like, Oh yeah, like Jasper.

And then when Belly gets upset about them celebrating her birthday, he calms her down. And then I was reading the book and I was like, Oh, that was literally not in the book at all. Like it was just the movie. So I like that one. I thought it was a good choice. Let’s talk about a couple of like small timeline changes.

Honestly, I’m just going to like lightning round these. Cause in new moon they’re pretty minor, but the book is compressed a little bit or things are added. The timeline of, like, when the party happens, and Bella gets almost killed, which is so dramatic. That part to when Edward leaves is compressed.

It obviously comes to the same end. He leaves, she thinks he doesn’t want her anymore whatever. There’s more time in the middle just like an extra day. There’s a little more about Alice. Not being there and stuff like that. Also in the book new moon Renee visits Bella during that first little bit of time when she was Basically catatonic when they were concerned that they were gonna have to institutionalize her.

None of that is in the movie You just have the spinning chair scene with the four months and in the book, I think it’s mentioned later that Renee was there, so they don’t include it ever in the movie, but, um, there was, oh, when Bella goes to the stranger in Port Angeles, like trying to get Edward’s hallucination to show up.

When she realizes what’s going on she actually takes a bike ride with him in the movie. But in the book, it’s just like a conversation. And then when she realizes it wasn’t the guy that was trying to assault her before she just walks off. And then in the book, Bella gets like the stomach flu after the movie, just like Mike and she thought Jacob’s stomach

[00:15:21] Josiah: flu one actually threw me off because when I was watching New Moon, I had just.

read the sequence where and I thought it was I won’t say this is the best written books. These are not the best written books, but Dare you? I know, but I thought it was a clever plot device to have Mike’s stomach bug go around and that be Jacob’s cover while he transforms into a wolf. And they just cut that for the movie.

And I think it was fine, but I did that as a motivation for Jacob to, I think it added to the mystery in the book of Oh, Jacob’s sick. And then there’s a interesting feeling as you’re like, Oh, he’s not sick with the stomach flu. Is he in the book that you don’t get in the movie? Gotcha. Dad, I

[00:16:16] Rebekah: think you said is, was it mono?

So he pretends it’s a stomach flu. Bella thinks that’s what it is. Cause she and four or five other people have it. And then he, Billy tells her it’s mono and then it’s not mono. So that’s. Yeah. So they do mention Mana. That’s where that comes from.

[00:16:31] Donna: Jacob and Bella’s relationship, uh, relationship, it seems like they have more than one.

Their relationship has some twists and turns that are displayed differently in the film than the book. I’m going to say as a big whole of this topic, I would just say I, I liked what they did with their relationship in the movie. Sure. Like we’ve said before, if they could go to the detail, the book goes to that’s fine.

And the movies would be two days long. But I get that. But I was pleased overall. And even with their chemistry, I felt like they pulled off an intimate friendship. But we can go on with the changes. But with some of the differences. But I just wanted to say there that.

With all the, I know a lot of people, and we will probably say things about Kristen Stewart’s acting and our thoughts about that. But in, in general, I really did feel like she had. a good chemistry with Taylor Lautner and what they did with their relationship. I thought it was cool.

[00:17:51] Josiah: I was happy with it.

First of all, I think that Taylor Lautner is probably the worst actor in the film, and I was very pleased watching Eclipse because I do think he got better. I think he was worse in New Moon. He was very cringy the way he said things there. And maybe the director told him, Hey, this is you’re going through wolf change.

You need to project a teenager frustration. And it really sounds like he’s a 20 year old acting like a 12 year old who’s just so mad at the world.

[00:18:28] Rebekah: Yeah, but maybe there’s one line in the book. They’re not in the book There’s one line in the movie that always drives me crazy when he’s like telling Bella.

He’s not good for her it’s like right after he cuts his hair short and he’s I’m not a Good person like I don’t know why but that that lives rent free in my head It never goes away, but I agree. I used to be

[00:18:51] Josiah: a good kid, but I’m not I think it was a good change to add a Jacob appearance at the beginning of the film, because in the book, Bella doesn’t actually see him until she takes the motorcycle to La Push after Edward leaves.

And I think that having him appear in an earlier scene was a very good change. I’m surprised Stephanie and Meyer didn’t have Jacob there.

[00:19:18] Rebekah: I think you’re right. And they did that in the first movie as well. Yeah. And I inserted

[00:19:21] Tim: him. It’s, it seems in the movie. There was a little less of the physical contact that, that we read in the book, but the movie still tries to play up the love interest part this love triangle continually.

So even though it’s a little different from book to movie, there still seems to be a big focus of trying to make sure you understand this is a love triangle. This is a huge question, don’t ever forget that it could go any way.

[00:19:52] Rebekah: I have a problem with the way that it’s even written in the book, honestly.

Like it bothers me how much physical contact they talk about Bella and Jacob having. And all the while Bella, she does say a few times like she’s aware of the fact that she’s messing with him like she not messing with him She’s aware of the fact that she needs him In that way and that she’s letting him feel some sort of way but like they talk about holding hands all the time and like She’ll snuggle up next to him and all this stuff and and there’s this big thing where, it’s literally one of my favorite scenes in new moon’s movie is hilarious.

When all the, when the boys have that weird claw thing going that we did when we were like teenagers and wanted the person next to us to hold her hand. And I literally have memories of doing that. And so I love that scene. Yeah. In the movie theater scene. What did I say? Yeah. It’s really good.

But in the book, she like talks about how she sees them doing their little claw hands and she doesn’t hold Jacob’s hand, except it’s weird that she’s not holding Jacob’s hand, but she knows that it would be different because it’s a dark movie theater. And I’m like, No, it wouldn’t be different.

You’re just like, why are you this way? It bothers me so much. And you’ve

[00:21:08] Donna: mentioned the lightness of that scene and it’s very funny. And she has this look on her face like, Oh no, come on. I think that’s another thing that they do well in this movie, in general, is the light parts are funny. When Quill and Embry and Paul, when they’re bantering together with him and with Bella and stuff like that.

I think

[00:21:35] Rebekah: the light When Bella says, Oh, you guys have girlfriends. Yes. That’s such a good line. Yeah.

[00:21:40] Donna: And again, Jacob, that he is cringey there too. I said, she was a girl and she’s a, he, it reminds me of William Shatner, except William Shatner’s William Shatner. He can do that as Captain Kirk, but Jacob shouldn’t do it as, Taylor Wander shouldn’t do it as Jacob.

[00:22:00] Josiah: Yeah. Okay. What about this? It bothers me how Bella finds out that Jacob is a wolf. The scene where she goes to confront him and okay, there’s a few things that I don’t like about the scene. And just to preface, I really went into reading this with in good faith. I wanted to like it for what it was.

I wanted to find the positives and stuff. And I’m watching the movie, and I’m trying to get in these characters heads. Okay, these are real characters, if I, and, Ella, does she slap Sam?

[00:22:41] Rebekah: Oh my gosh, she does, right? Yeah.

[00:22:43] Josiah: In the movie, she does. Or, in the movie, she slaps. Sam. No, not Sam. Not Sam. It’s

[00:22:49] Tim: the one that turns.

It’s Paul. It’s Paul.

[00:22:52] Josiah: Paul. Is it Paul? What’s the difference? Because Sam is the one that’s. I’m so sorry to people who care. I do not know the difference between Sam and Paul. Sam is the alpha.

[00:23:01] Rebekah: Sam’s the one that’s in charge. Paul is the one that’s just hot headed.

[00:23:05] Josiah: Sure, and they couldn’t be the same character So yeah, she slaps Paul and I’m thinking back on Bella’s entire character Which I think I said this last episode.

I really like Bella when she’s not around Edward Thinking of Bella’s character would she ever slap Anyone besides Jacob. No. No, she wouldn’t. Absolutely not. It’s really out

[00:23:33] Tim: of character. She is angry with Jacob, and basically Jacob is saying, The reason that I can’t talk to you is because of that group of guys over there.

And she… Because I think she’s mad with Jacob, she walks over in a huff to the guys and when they don’t own up to their responsibility or whatever with Jacob, it sets her off. It does seem like it’s out of character, does lead that direction. It’s almost like she’s slapping Jacob, except he’s not there.

He’s out of the picture at that moment.

[00:24:12] Josiah: Why doesn’t she just slap Jacob and then Jacob transforms? Is it supposed to be to make Jacob not look volatile, but he is he and he’s saying

[00:24:23] Rebekah: it is with his words. He’s less volatile than the other wolves. They make a huge deal about the fact in the book that Jacob is like in a lot of control.

I would say I, Oh yeah. I prefer the way that they do it in the book where she like figures it out. Very similar, honestly, to how she figured out Edward, like in the middle of the night. She remembers the conversation with Jake. That she’d had in Twilight, where she actually learned about the vampires.

But that was also when she learned about the werewolves, technically. And so she like remembers the conversation, goes to La Push. She like storms in early on a Saturday morning. And Billy’s Jake isn’t here. He’s sleeping or something. And she like, I think, sees him like lulled over in his bed, like sleeping peacefully.

She bursts in his bedroom. So she’s just tell him. Yeah. And tell him I’m gonna, I’m waiting for him on the beach or something. And he had told her when they met in person, I’ll understand if you don’t want to see me just call. Like you don’t have to come in person if you’re, if you don’t want to talk anymore or something like that.

And so then they like have a discussion, then they establish the whole, Oh, don’t kill people. I’m not killing people. And then she’s Oh, I don’t care that you’re a werewolf. I just thought you were a murderer. Or whatever. And then later, when all of them are together Jacob upsets Paul, and you just see Paul freak out, and it’s used as an example of how they’re

[00:25:41] Tim: Easily dangerous.

So that’s how the, that’s how the book is different

[00:25:43] Josiah: than the movie.

[00:25:45] Rebekah: Yeah. Absolutely. Very different. Yeah. And in the movie, I think that they did it for dramatic effect of Oh, look, she’s in so much danger, cause she slaps him, and then he gets so mad. But it’s in reality, their whole…

Thing their shtick is that they’re the protectors like they protect humans and so like None of them would genuinely turn in response to a human. It’s out of character for everything. But then

[00:26:12] Josiah: they go to

[00:26:13] Tim: Sam’s wife, Sam’s girlfriend. I’m assuming wife,

[00:26:17] Josiah: but,

[00:26:17] Rebekah: They’re, I think, engaged at that

[00:26:19] Josiah: point, but, Yeah,

[00:26:19] Tim: because you find out immediately following that in the movie that Sam got angry and she was too close one time and now she has a permanent scar across her face.

I guess they’re still trying to establish that they’re very

[00:26:35] Josiah: volatile. It also upsets me about that scene that there’s no urgency whenever he, whenever Paul becomes a wolf. Jacob isn’t like running to protect Bella as I remember it in my head, he turns into a wolf and the movie like pauses from Kristen Stewart’s perspective for the audience to go Whoa, Whoa.

Oh, wow.

[00:26:59] Rebekah: I don’t know that I picked up on that, but I do believe you. I

[00:27:03] Josiah: Could be making that up. Who knows?

[00:27:05] Rebekah: He like jumps, he transforms and jumps over Bella in the film. I will say that, like Jacob. Yeah, okay. He’s not even there for the fight. That’s the point. Is Paul gets mad at Jacob in the book.

Because Jacob told their secret somehow, and that’s what sets him off. But in the movie, it’s literally just Bella making out.

[00:27:23] Tim: And Paul reveals the secret by turning into a

[00:27:26] Josiah: wolf. Okay, what about this one? At the end of the movie, I honestly don’t know if I like this or not. I think it’s fine either way, but at the end of the movie and book, Bella gets grounded for different reasons.

And I think the movie simplifies it and it makes sense, but in the book it and I don’t know how you guys feel about this, but it gives Jacob an opportunity to reveal how petty he is. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Sure. We talked. He’s more like a

[00:28:01] Rebekah: 12 We’ll definitely talk about it more when we go down to eclipse.

But the no, this is what I was saying. Like the manipulation that Jacob does. Dad and I have actually talked about this more than once. You see a lot of how like deeply manipulative Jacob is, and I think that is one of the things that’s like the first glimpse you get of no, he is he is going to ruin you if he’s mad at you.

Like he’s. Petty is a great word but yeah, he like goes and tells Charlie about the motorcycles because he thinks that Bell is avoiding him because Edward is back after the whole Volterra thing. But in reality, that’s not even what happens. It’s like she was grounded because she ran off and couldn’t see Jacob.

And so then she gets so much worse grounded. I think that the simplification is great. But I do think you lose a little bit of the depth of Jacob cause you love him. Bella describes him as having two sides, like my Jacob and Sam’s Jacob. And like Sam’s Jacob is the manipulative one. He’s the mad one.

He’s like the one that likes really sarcastic and mean. And then her Jacob is the son, that makes sense

[00:29:08] Josiah: and I’m team Jacob. Oh, no. It’s not gonna be team Tyler’s van And even I think that Jacob is petty

[00:29:21] Tim: there are a lot of relational interactions that are different from the book to the film during several different times, but like the trip to Volterra, we don’t see Alice and Bella, we don’t see their conversation on the plane going or coming back.

They, you get a lot of information in the book, but you jump over it,

[00:29:41] Rebekah: Yeah, you, it like goes back to Bella. Being open to considering her desire to become a vampire again and like all this stuff And it’s there’s so much there about the questions that Bella will ask the ones she won’t ask like I don’t know even a few Even two minutes.

I feel like of dialogue could have really done a lot To go, I don’t know, remind you of some of the things that you’re missing from the first book about the way Bella wanted Edward and wanted to be part of his life and his world.

[00:30:10] Josiah: Yeah, but before the Volterra trip, correct me if I’m wrong the inciting incident of Jacob telling Edward on the phone.

That Charlie is at a funeral. Preparing for a funeral. It’s different in the movie. I thought, um, correct me if I’m wrong, I think in the book, it says that Charlie is at Harry Clearwater’s funeral. And in the movie, it says he’s planning a funeral. Yeah, I don’t

[00:30:42] Rebekah: recall. I think you’re right. It’s. The difference is subtle, but like one of them is he’s planning a funeral and one of them is he’s at the funeral.

Like in the book, there was not any sense of you could tell that Jacob was annoyed that he, who he thought was Carlisle, but was actually Edward. Like you could tell he was annoyed that he called and was interrupting because in both the book and the movie, it’s the second time in a matter of a couple of hours.

Or no, it’s in the movie. It’s the second time in the matter of a few minutes in the book. It’s two days later, a day later or something where like Edward and Bella have like almost kiss or not Edward. Sorry. Jacob and Bella have almost kissed. And Jacob’s I’m going to get what I want. And then literally both times, like they pull up to the house and Carlisle’s car was there, which was Alice.

And then the second time the phone rings and he thinks it’s Carlisle on the phone. And it’s actually Edward and Jacob’s so mad. But like in the movie, there’s almost this sense of Jacob is trying to sabotage Bella talking to Edward where in the book, I don’t think that was like, he was just like, he’s at a funeral or he’s at the, it was just less intense like that.

Wait, is this the one based

[00:31:48] Donna: on Romeo and Juliet, right?

[00:31:50] Josiah: Yeah. Yes.

[00:31:51] Tim: And the funny thing in the movie, right at the beginning of the movie Bella is reading Romeo and Juliet. It’s like a, it’s this huge advertisement that they’re, that this story is inspired by Romeo and Juliet.

[00:32:08] Rebekah: They have, I don’t know if you know this, they’ve done that with all three of them so far.

Okay. But I assume it will come up in the next one. Yeah.

[00:32:14] Tim: This is the first one that looked like an advertisement.

[00:32:18] Rebekah: It was Pride and Prejudice, and then Romeo and Juliet, and it’s, I only know the third one is Wuthering Heights, not because I’ve read Wuthering Heights, but because Bella and Edward are reading Wuthering Heights in Eclipse.

That’s how I know that one. I didn’t

[00:32:29] Donna: realize, I just hadn’t paid attention, how many times Romeo and Juliet Is visually referred to until I’m watching it with Josiah yesterday and he was like, Oh my gosh, we get it. Okay, it’s Romeo. You don’t have to do that.

[00:32:49] Rebekah: It is a bit heavy handed. We understand. And the book’s by

[00:32:52] Donna: her head and they see it in the They’re watching it in the classroom, and all of a sudden, Edward can quote this whole thing, and all the girls are looking at him, and I still don’t, I’ve listened to the quote however many times I’ve seen the movie, still don’t understand

[00:33:08] Josiah: what he says.

[00:33:10] Tim: I think all of that is supposed to appeal to a teenage girl audience, but there are some things in it too that are supposed to appeal to the boyfriends that want to take them somewhere to hold hands and, kiss and all that kind of stuff afterwards. So their willings. TJ was getting ready to talk about the fight stuff.

And I think a lot of that is included. For the guys that are coming to watch.

[00:33:36] Josiah: I you’ll hear me talk about. I do think that Eclipse has the best action of the series. If I’m recalling Breaking Dawn part one and two correctly because I haven’t watched them recently, I only watched a long time ago.

But I think Eclipse has the best action. But New Moon, I really don’t like the action that they added to New Moon. It really feels tacked on. And actively f combating against what the story is trying to do. First of all, I get why they tried to add more Victoria to the story. For not from Bella’s perspective, but in the movie they tried to add more visuals of Victoria.

hunting and being chased by wolves and then Giving harry clare water a heart attack, which we might talk about later But then in the volturi scene edward fights a volturi and i’m thinking and then they go out and Uninjured, all of them get to leave. I’m like wait, attacking a Volturi doesn’t mean you are like you’re not tried in vampire court and killed immediately.

You can just attack each other and try to kill one another. And you can just walk out of the room. No, because

[00:34:53] Rebekah: Aro has a

[00:34:54] Donna: huge man crush on Edward. And

[00:34:57] Josiah: if they wanted to kill Bella. There are like 10 Volturi guards or something, what is it? Edward is fighting Dimitri or Felix or one of them.

And, maybe Alice is fighting another one and Bella’s just in the middle of the room and there are 10 Volturi just looking on. If the point was really to kill Bella, then, oh, they would be fighting Alice and Edward and then the other 10 would descend upon Bella, right? So it just felt, it took me out of it, felt oh, this is, this doesn’t make any sense.

They’re just adding it for action’s sake without trying to make it make any sense.

[00:35:34] Rebekah: There’s not as much characterization stuff that we have written down for this episode because we actually talked about a lot of differences in characterizations. Throughout the series when we did the first episode but I think, we already talked about Jacob manipulating Bella.

It’s it’s muted. I feel like both ends of his personality, how easygoing he is in one way, how manipulative he is in another way is very muted. And he’s also I thought this was in the book cause I watched the movie before finishing this part of the book this time. And he’s not mean to Mike in the book.

Like in the film, he like almost starts a fight, right? I

[00:36:11] Josiah: think that was a good addition to the film because it’s right before and they do it quicker in the film. It’s right before he transitions into the werewolf and

[00:36:21] Tim: his fever, which you know, is he responds very badly to Mike and then. Bella says, what’s wrong with you?

And when she grabs him, she says, you’re burning up. This is that’s that change is beginning to happen. So it facilitates that. Yeah. Yeah. You get a lot more of Alice’s backstory in the book. That’s one of the ones you don’t get

[00:36:44] Josiah: in the movie.

[00:36:46] Tim: Yeah. In

[00:36:47] Josiah: any of the movies, you don’t really understand why you

[00:36:50] Tim: don’t get any of them.

But it’s one of the toughest ones. Some of the backstories are less interesting than hers.

[00:37:02] Rebekah: Yeah, but I think that hers is the one that doesn’t affect anything else in the rest of the plot. So there’s no payoff if you like em, employ it in one of the earlier movies. It doesn’t really come back up.

But for those of you who have not read the books but have watched the films, when they kill James in the first book, they basically discover through that process that he actually was the one that changed Alice in an asylum. And you don’t really know much about it. And so when Alice comes to Bella in New Moon and thought she died, but she didn’t and whatever.

Bella asks Alice where she’s been. And Alice basically says, I’ve been looking through my history. And she finds out that she has a living niece who she obviously is not going to go visit. She went and located her grave and she found out that the date on her headstone was the same date as a paperwork that showed her being admitted to an asylum where she was abused and eventually changed into a vampire.

So it’s interesting, but mostly irrelevant.

[00:37:58] Josiah: I do,

[00:37:58] Tim: Did want to mention the thing with in the book, Jessica’s reactions to Belen all, she seems to be a lot more angry, a lot more upset with her. But remember in the movie, Jessica is actually a composite of two different characters. One girl that really, you’re right.

That really is a, she’s a hater because, this new girl has gotten into her space. And then the Jessica of the book is a lot more complimentary, a lot more helpful. But this Jessica is a composite of

[00:38:28] Rebekah: the two. She’s still yeah, that, yeah, that’s a very good point. I forgot about that.

She still can be a little bit mean to Bella, but honestly, so my note that I had written down was that in the film, Jessica just seems sane because I, okay, I’m just, I’m going to say this. I’m the parent of a teenager. Obviously, mom and dad, it changes your perspective. I read this book and I was like, okay, I remember the first time I read this.

I was like, just married early on in my life, like 1920 ish, whatever. And I remember reading it and going, Oh my gosh. And we’re in a, Oh, amazing. Like I love it. Like I was so into Edward and it was just like, Oh, how cool. But. Reading it now. I’m like, okay, Jacob is manipulative. Bella is so unhealthy. She can’t be apart from Edward.

She can’t even like she’s only not suicidal on like the very thinnest of margins. She literally should have been institutionalized and no one freaking calls her out on it. But then it gets worse because in the book. This is an eclipse thing, but like in the book, they come home, she has a broken hand because Jacob kissed her without her consent, kissed her, she punched him in the face, broke her hand, and then her dad is Oh, good job.

And I’m like, okay, that’s horrifying and toxic. And then, okay, last one, Edward, I’m just going to say it, keeping her from Jacob and like manipulating the situation and literally trapping her was abusive. I read that again and it upset me like in eclipse. I was like, okay, I get the Edwards supposed to be this great character, but I would even disagree with something.

I think mom said earlier in the episode, it’s like, Oh, the vampires protector and stuff. No, he was jealous. And he admitted that it was because of jealousy. And he literally like Traps her and doesn’t let her go to do the things she wants to do. That’s like abuse 101 is people that like drag you away from your family and don’t let you know your friends.

[00:40:28] Tim: I remember at the time that we were reading the books and the movies were becoming so popular and practically everyone was reading this and all of that. Donna and I discussed. Her putting together a bible study to talk to girls about some of these things because some of those themes just really jumped out at us because we were already parents of a teenager, and that, and you look at it differently.

You think, wait a minute, there’s so much manipulation, emotional abuse and and aside from the fact that Bella from the very beginning. is just certain that she wants to become a vampire and die. She, there’s no

[00:41:09] Josiah: Yes! Because at 17 Yeah, you said she’s not suicidal. Yeah, at 17 But I don’t know about that.

Her life

[00:41:14] Tim: Is worthless. There’s nothing about her life that’s worth living for. And it’s her

[00:41:19] Josiah: dad loves her mom loves her If she ages another day she’s gonna be so ugly. Yeah it’s just, it’s

[00:41:24] Tim: very unhealthy. If that’s okay to say, it’s, it’s very popular. There are lots of great things about it and it’s very interesting, but there’s a lot of bad stuff

[00:41:37] Rebekah: about it too.

And the thing about her changing to be a vampire, Rosalie. It gives her the whole story, on basically how she wanted to get married. She wanted to have a baby and she’s Bella, you don’t know what you’re going to want in five years in 10 Oh yes, you’re going to want that. I didn’t want to, I didn’t want to have kids until I was in my mid twenties.

Like I really didn’t. That’s so legitimate. And then in the book, it’s like Bella’s perspective is just that’s so dumb. The only thing I’ll ever want is Edward. Here’s

[00:42:05] Josiah: the other

[00:42:05] Tim: part of that. So many times people refer to her, especially in the book, but also in the movie, she’s so wise. She’s so wise beyond her years.

She’s so thoughtful and so wise and I’m thinking she’s making horrible decisions.

[00:42:23] Josiah: Do you want to talk about the setting differences? There aren’t very many at all for New Moon, but just to talk about.

[00:42:31] Rebekah: Yeah, I I think we talked about a lot of the setting for like kind of the series as a whole in our Twilight episode.

And so a couple of things that changed specifically for these and this is one change affected the rest of the three books and four extra movies. They remove Newton’s sporting goods from the movie. I think it was. simplification purposes, fewer sets, whatever. So in the book, Bella gets a part time job where she works at Newton’s Sporting Goods in the beginning of New Moon.

Oh, I

[00:43:02] Josiah: had no idea what you were talking about. It’s the place where she works. Okay. Yes, I remember

[00:43:07] Rebekah: that now. Yes, exactly. So you find out she’s worked there during the summer and she’s working there because she works there. One of the days where like. Edward picks her up after work and then takes her home and then tells her he’s leaving.

And so that’s it affects a couple of different things. So that’s when she gets left by Edward and Bella and Mike actually talk about going to a movie together. Just the two of them like are having that discussion and she’s Oh, we should take a big group. Whereas in the movie it was at school.

Bella hears about large bears and then during the eclipse, which is why I say it affects a couple of different things. But she like escapes from there. One of the times that she sneaks away to find Jacob. So I do think that it was a weird change because. I get why again, simplification is everything, but I felt like it just made the settings so much more samey when they had introduced a whole other option.

I think

[00:44:00] Tim: It also lost the opportunity to show more of Bella’s responsibility. Cause in what we get, she doesn’t have a job and in the movies, she doesn’t cook the meals and things like that. They eat at the restaurant. So this rebellious Bella is super responsible and she cares about other people.

You miss that because it’s all self absorbed stuff.

[00:44:23] Josiah: Yeah, Bookabella is actually like a person and a good person sometimes. Yeah. Who has responsibilities that she fulfills without complaining. Yeah. I’m so confused as to why. And I don’t think it’s all Kristen Stewart, but I’m so confused at the choices the movie makers made to take all of her responsibility away and make her feel, first of all, that infantilizes her more, that turns her into more of a child and less of an adult, which I think is problematic by itself, but it also makes her less likable.

I

[00:44:57] Tim: think in a lot of things that we talked about they’ve removed the things that would have Brought more depth to some of the characters

[00:45:06] Josiah: you don’t understand why they went to movie adaptations unfortunately, I was gonna say and Taking away Newton’s sporting goods. I think that We talked about this in the first Twilight book to movie But it feels like a much less lived in place to me I feel like the forks in the book feels bigger.

It feels like a town, whereas in the movie, it’s okay, there is school, but it’s mostly just Jacob’s place and Bella’s place and occasionally a house and

[00:45:40] Tim: a little cafe.

[00:45:44] Rebekah: Yeah, and I think I will say one other thing to the depth of Bella’s character You find out so this was something I read in the part of life and death I could get through which was the gender swap one that I ended up hating But you find out in the first book of life and death that Bella actually paid all of her mom’s bills She worked so that they could yeah like She did all the money management stuff.

And so then she makes all of Charlie’s food and she works at Newton’s. The money that she makes is the way that she’s able to afford all the parts that Jake needs to fix the bikes. And it’s the way that she later essentially convinces Charlie that she’s going to the university of Alaska because she won’t let him pay for her deposit on her tuition.

And she sends off the rest of the money in her bank account. And it’s like it literally comes up over and over that she’s so responsible in the book and just keeps her grades up

[00:46:34] Donna: during all that depression. She, she’s still doing well in school and following just that pattern.

Yeah, I agree with

[00:46:43] Josiah: that 100%. Is it a new moon or eclipse? I think it’s eclipse that Bella in her internal monologue talks about all of the different times she had to talk her mother out of bad decisions.

[00:46:56] Rebekah: I think it’s an eclipse because I think it’s when she’s like debating the whole marriage thing.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The only thing I noticed otherwise setting wise in new moon that was different was that in new moon, they make this like big deal about in the book about how the garage where they are fixing the bikes is like inaccessible because Billy’s in a wheelchair. And in the book, it’s just like they just are in the film.

Rather, they just don’t change. It’s just all in the same plane and it’s not as big of a deal that she’s trying to hide the fact that she has a motorcycle, like from anyone that would tell Charlie. So that was really all I had for setting. Or new moon, if we want to

[00:47:33] Josiah: jump it over to

[00:47:34] Rebekah: eclipse, I know we’ve talked about some of it.

So lot in timeline changes,

[00:47:42] Josiah: man, there’s a lot.

[00:47:45] Tim: Yeah. The relationship, Jacob and Bella’s relationship, they compress it. It shifted around. Bella doesn’t go with Jacob the first time that he comes to see her at school after she comes back from Florida in the book that happens at a different time. It’s after she first reconnects with Jacob after seeing him at the end of a shift at work there again You lose that opportunity with her seeing

[00:48:09] Rebekah: a picture of a wolf to be fair.

But yes,

[00:48:13] Tim: It’s strange You get you get a strange picture of their relationship, but the book and the movie Their relationship is strange, there are times when you think, okay, this is romantic. No, wait a minute. They’re just best friends. They happen to be male and female, and so it’s odd from the beginning

[00:48:35] Josiah: to the end.

[00:48:37] Rebekah: I think again, like everything else, I, in my opinion, most of the time, I think it’s better fleshed out in the book where She knows how Jacob feels about her. She feels like she’s been clear with him. But at the same time, she just like she loves him. And now, even though Edward’s back, she still feels like she needs him in some ways.

And they do make a big deal about like similar. Honestly, it reminds me a little bit of the Katniss thing where they had that love triangle. And Gail says she’ll basically be with whichever one of us she thinks that needs her the most. It feels a little like that where she’s I’m so Edward.

I don’t care about Jacob. And then she’s but Jacob needs me. I feel so protective. And I feel like she uses that as a straw man to distract from the fact that she really is in love with Jacob. I also want to know what you guys thought about how they changed, like the Jacob Bella kiss. The one right before the fight, because that’s the other last thing I had written down.

What were they supposed to do with it? Where they changed the portrayal of that. They would have

[00:49:33] Donna: had to put a blanket down on the ground

[00:49:35] Josiah: for him.

[00:49:36] Tim: Oh, it got hot.

[00:49:39] Josiah: The

[00:49:39] Donna: book was it wasn’t

[00:49:41] Tim: that it was a question that because Stephanie Meyer said,

[00:49:45] Josiah: Her

[00:49:45] Rebekah: morals were up against a tree cleaner.

Yes, they were up against a tree and wrapped around one another by the end of it. It was very passionate which they do tone it down to make it more PG than in the book. Which I think was an interesting choice, and I understand it, but there was also less manipulation in the movie on Jake’s side.

Jacob basically lies to her. It is very awful the way that he gets her to kiss him. Yeah. And, the last thing about it that’s different is that in the book, she says that for a fleeting moment, she sees herself pregnant, growing Her kids like baby kids running around. It’s like the one time before she literally has a baby.

Little furry children. Like she’s like before she gets pregnant that she. Yeah, that she thinks about wanting to be a mom. And I’m like, that would have been such a great little like quick flash in the film. And she talks about like her heart actually might

[00:50:43] Tim: want to have a child. Do you think that maybe toning down the manipulativeness of Jacob?

Was to help feed the love triangle, Edward’s good this way and Jacob’s good this way and they’re both bad for her, they’re equally to make it an equal choice between the two of them because I wonder if people might have looked at it and said obviously he’s manipulative.

He’s the abusive one. You don’t want to have a relationship with him. So I wanted to

[00:51:13] Donna: chat about the book epilogue a little bit. Oh, yeah. I did not remember this as much from the last time I read the book. And when I read it this time or listen to it, I’m an audio book listener. Man, there’s so much in this conversation between Jacob and Leah, and there’s, it brings so much depth into who they are, who they’re, who their people are, who their tribe is and, but also the personal lives, their personal, intimate thoughts about themselves and what they’re dealing with in the, when Leah describes.

What she’s going through, she’s the first female that’s changed to a wolf. Which is a huge deal. It’s actually

[00:52:10] Tim: a very powerful conversation that it’s a shame that they left out because the Leah that you get in the movies. It’s just an angry woman. She’s just horrible.

[00:52:21] Donna: She’s just awful.

She’s just angry. For no good reason. And I know they talk about, yes, they talk about Sam and Emily, but you, but in the book, and I don’t know why they do not make this connection. In the movie, it would be a word, literally a word, Emily and Leah are cousins. And Emily came to visit Leah. So it wasn’t that Sam had been dating Leah and Emily was just around.

And then he saw her and went, Oh, I’m imprinting on you. He and Leah had a developed relationship. And then Emily came to visit her and he imprinted on her. It’s still tragic regardless of how it would have happened. But then to hear Leah talk about the fact that. Is she a real girl? I mean it so she’s not even

[00:53:11] Tim: because she’s menopausal now.

Yeah,

[00:53:13] Donna: right and how Horrible, that would be to deal with that as an older teenager.

[00:53:21] Tim: She speaks of herself as a Genetic dead end. Yeah,

[00:53:27] Rebekah: because they think that the whole imprinting thing their theory had been that it’s like to create the strongest wolf offspring how could that be true for her because of all this other stuff?

it’s very like Poignant and yeah, I think there’s this whole element that you unlock with that, that does get cut. I guess

[00:53:43] Donna: it’s an arc. They just felt like they couldn’t add on. But

[00:53:46] Josiah: it is

[00:53:46] Tim: another example of cutting things from the book that would have deepened some of the characters and I feel like there are times when they went through things that seemed like was just adding padding into the movies.

And then, they cut things that could have really deepened it and stuff like that.

[00:54:12] Rebekah: Another example of that is the conversation that Jacob and Edward have while Bella is in the sleeping bag and Jacob is being her space heater. And I, when I read that again, so I switched from the audio book to the regular book partway through Eclipse just because I wanted to make sure I had read it.

Taken a lot of it in recent, like right before we did the podcast and I didn’t want to take the extra time and so I switched over and I like read that section in the physical book over a couple of times because honestly the conversations they conversation they have in the mountain it again reminded me of PETA and Gail talking in the hunger games where Katniss could hear it was very reminiscent of that.

And it just felt again, it developed a relationship with them in a way that the movie just failed to do, like which does come up, because ultimately in the next book, like it gets really fleshed out when they have a way to like each other and get to know each other more and it also felt like you know I don’t know it just it creates depth that is missing from the movies And I don’t think that it had to be the whole same conversation But yeah, it just felt very like empty to me that conversation similarly to the book epilogue.

And

[00:55:33] Tim: you certainly get the impression in that conversation in the tent that when Edward says, given different circumstances, we might be friends, blah, blah, blah. And Jacob says, yeah, no, we wouldn’t be. It just, it, he’s like even though it’s just, it makes him more shallow, more teenager, actually more, more immature young man.

[00:55:58] Rebekah: Also, the movie Eclipse shows the fight in the clearing. So Josiah, you had mentioned you like that.

[00:56:08] Josiah: Yeah, one of the best changes in the entire series is that we get to see the newborn army. I can’t believe Stephanie Meyer, especially now, don’t spoil too much for me because I’ve never read Breaking Dawn.

I’m just, I’m about to. But apparently a lot of it’s from Jacob’s perspective. Why in the book just go to another perspective than Bella? I get that Bella’s not in the clearing, but go to Carlisle’s perspective. Go to Riley’s perspective. My goodness. I guess he comes up there. Go to Bree’s

[00:56:42] Donna: perspective.

And Edward could hear all of it. He knew all of it was going on. He was right there standing with her.

[00:56:49] Rebekah: I

[00:56:49] Tim: want someone who’s there, perhaps that was a change perhaps the later books broke into a little bit more of that because that was a comment or a complaint or a suggestion in the writing, that it from just her perspective, it’s really difficult to get some of the other stuff in the movies.

Try to go from other perspectives and other things and maybe by the time she wrote the last book were all the books written before the first movie was made or was the, they were already being made when she wrote the last ones. Okay, yeah, I think that was written after the movie started, hey somebody suggested this they like this part about the movies How about if the book was like that?

Yeah,

[00:57:37] Josiah: maybe I think that I can see Stephanie Meyer making that decision on her own but I think that the action in this movie, not only the fight and the clearing, which is completely necessary to make the entire Eclipse plot mean anything it’s all building up. There’s this newborn army. There’s this newborn army.

Oh, the vampires and the werewolves are working together. The vampires and werewolves working together. And we just don’t, we don’t see it. I’m, and it upsets me that Stephanie Meyer did not have the simple thought. Oh yeah, let’s have a, Oh, it’d be exciting to show that. Rebecca, I didn’t get to read all of Brie Tanner book.

Is any of the Midnight Is any of the clearing battle in that?

[00:58:22] Tim: Yes. One of the things that I really loved about the movie was you get an expanded picture of Riley, and I have to say, he is actually one of my favorite characters in the entire series. And it’s strange because you don’t get a lot of picture of him, but I feel like the actor portrayed the part in such a way that you really got, you got a little bit about who he was.

And the first part of that. Is that he appears in the beginning of the movie. I don’t think that happens in the book and you see when he’s turned. There’s something about his reaction, he just seems to be a normal young man, in Seattle, I’m assuming. And he’s going about life and suddenly this thing is attacking him or chasing him or whatever.

And you see a lot of different range of emotions on his face. And it just, it gives you some bit of picture of who he was. And then you get a little bit more later. But then you also see him writhing in pain after he’s been changed. And there are a couple of spots in his characterization where the depth doesn’t seem to be there, but then.

Would it spoil something if I jumped to the part with Victoria? She continues to say, Oh, Riley, it’s just you and me. And we just need to be able to hunt freely. That’s why we need to take care of the Cullens, but they’re such bad people and they just don’t want us to do this, that, and the other.

And she convinces Riley that he’s the love of her life and. They’re going to be together and that’s why she needs him to do it and she, when he realizes that she’s simply willing to completely sacrifice him, there’s this look on his face that just tells a huge part of the story, you don’t, you get a little bit in the movie about the fact that he’s from Forks and that’s why he, that’s probably why she chose him because he would know his way around.

He goes into Bella’s room earlier in the movie. I think that comes up a little bit later. The way that it comes up in the book is different.

[01:00:39] Rebekah: That, honestly, he’s, so he’s the stranger. That Edward takes Bella home and he realizes, or Edward comes over and there’s the vampire scent.

That. In the movie, I will say, was one of the best things they did was showing that because it was like, it was eerie. It was. Like, it was

[01:00:59] Tim: wild. Because he stood there and looked at Charlie for a little bit, and… He got over

[01:01:03] Donna: his face and smelled him. Yes. And I was flipping. I can remember watching it and thinking, Oh my gosh, he’s gonna eat Charlie.

Don’t eat Charlie. Please don’t do it, save the good actor,

But but I thought it was super chilling and it showed you what Edward was trying to explain to Bella from the beginning about what his kind could be. It did take it, it did take a little bit of um, license there. It was very controlled for him to be able to

[01:01:37] Tim: do that.

Yeah. Let me ask a question. Speaking of that control that doesn’t seem to have been appropriate. How long was he supposed to have been turned by the time he goes to see Charlie and the rest of it happens? Because in the movie, the timeline seems so crunched and it’s it’s been a few weeks.

But we’re told that the first year of the newborns, they’re crazy, so they’re expecting the other newborns to be crazy, but he’s in control.

[01:02:13] Rebekah: So Riley was supposed to have been a year newborn vampire by around the fight in the clearing. Okay, so that makes sense.

[01:02:21] Donna: So right around a year. Help him gain.

[01:02:24] Tim: So they built some kind of relationship before he began to turn the other vampires or the other people into vampires.

[01:02:32] Rebekah: Okay. So this is like something that I don’t think is done well. Cause I do, I really like what they do with Riley. And I will tell you, especially according to the short second life book and all of that other stuff, Riley is in the books, not from forks. Probably not a decent person, like before being changed.

There’s a lot that like she just completely rewrites about. Who this person is. But I will say it’s not done well that he’s supposed to be a year old because James like bit Bella and almost changed her and tried to kill her at the end of the school year, junior year. They attack in the clearing the week.

Right after graduation. So somehow it suggests that she started creating this army as literally weeks, like weeks after, no, not during new moon, like before you get to new moon. Cause new moon is the fall of that next school year of their senior year. And she would have had to literally do that somewhere around early summer of right after they got out of junior year.

So right after the events of twilight take place. So there is I feel like it’s a little, what is that in

[01:03:43] Josiah: the book

[01:03:43] Tim: and in the movie, that would make sense though, that she was that she was so angry that she would immediately set out to do this kind of thing that, that would make sense. Yeah, but

[01:03:55] Rebekah: she spends the entire book of new moon chasing Bella, trying to get in past the wolves.

But we’re supposed to think that she’s also creating a vampire army. She’s doing it all. Because the whole point seemed to be. Like, do you think that she’s doing it all at the same time?

[01:04:08] Tim: AlIce can’t see what’s going on because she’s not the one making the decisions. It’s like maybe this was her plan B.

Her plan A is to go after Bella. But plan B is I’ve got this guy starting an army and I don’t have to think about it. I don’t have to know. So they can’t tell what I’m thinking.

[01:04:27] Donna: Okay, so I just had a theory. And

[01:04:30] Rebekah: it could be groundbreaking. Groundbreaking. Wow. Ta

[01:04:35] Donna: da! Newsflash groundbreaking.

[01:04:39] Rebekah: I’m so impressed by your theory.

Good job, mom. What

[01:04:43] Donna: if when she bit butt crack Santa, he infused wisdom into her that she didn’t have before and then that allowed her to come up with this incredible double plan. Yes, . And I’m sorry if you didn’t listen to the episode about Twilight, you missed. Our

[01:05:10] Rebekah: revelation about the best ever conversation that has ever happened.

[01:05:14] Donna: Her

[01:05:14] Tim: portrayal to me, when you see Victoria in the movies, she seems to be, super vampire, she keeps escaping from the Cullens, at least one or two of whom are supposed to be super fast and super good at hunting down. She’s able to escape from all of the werewolves and she does it back and forth.

And nobody’s ever able to catch her. She seems to be, I say

[01:05:41] Josiah: multiple times that she has an instinct for escaping and evasion. And I assume that’s alluding to that she has some sort of superpower. Maybe she developed it when she was with James, who is, who was a super powered hunter, right?

[01:05:56] Donna: She was so in love with him. He went after another girl and she’s like avenging him.

[01:06:05] Rebekah: I think it’s somewhere in the Brie book, but I want to say, cause now I know that this is real. It must’ve been, it’s real that James kept her around because she literally had a gift for evasion. Like she had a supernatural power for that.

And that she was in love with James, but that he wasn’t actually that in love with her. Aww. Ed I don’t know if He had

[01:06:28] Tim: just kept her around because of her gift.

[01:06:32] Rebekah: Yeah. I think it’s just interesting that she is an evader. I guess she could I guess I could see that. Like That she was like doing multiple.

But

[01:06:40] Josiah: you’re saying that was bothersome to you. It was one of those bad guys who can never be defeated. Yeah. I have a question. What’s your question? Does Anna Kendrick’s character give a speech or does someone give a speech in the book like at graduation? Yes.

[01:06:57] Rebekah: It’s a different. No, that was

[01:06:58] Josiah: so good. That doesn’t happen in the book.

[01:07:01] Tim: It’s a different person.

[01:07:01] Rebekah: No, they she like mentions that she gave a speech. Jessica mentioned she gave a speech when she’s

[01:07:07] Josiah: at the. I think that speech is some of the best writing in the whole saga. And the reason I’m saying I don’t know why you guys are saying if we have the same reason, but for me, I remember even as a young, dumb teenager.

It was one of the first times that I really understood what nuance was where Anna Kendrick was saying one thing and then as the audience, you had to interpret that through Bella’s perspective and say, okay, yes, what Anna Kendrick is saying can be true of 18 year olds making decisions. Unfortunately, Bella’s situation is different and they never say that.

They never say that about the speech, but as audience members, you are supposed to intelligently intuit that. And it’s one of the first times I remember as a teenager actually figuring out the authorial intent and the subtext of something that I, and it was it’s also one of the few times when the text is not directly supporting Bella being toxic and stupid.

So I loved that change.

[01:08:22] Rebekah: So this is what Edward says. This is in Eclipse. I’m reading the Eclipse book. He says, you can always run later. Plenty of time for that. It’s what you do, isn’t it? It’s why James kept you around useful. If you like to play Deadly Games, a partner with an uncanny instinct for escaping.

He shouldn’t have left you. He could have used your skills when we caught up to him in Phoenix. That’s all you ever were to him, though. Silly to waste so much energy avenging someone who had less affection for you than a hunter for his mount. You were never more than a convenience to him. I would know.

And then Edward taps his temple. Oh, wow. So then he does point all that out, which I don’t know. I feel like I just didn’t catch that when that’s going

[01:08:57] Tim: on. There’s so much going on that you do miss. We’ve listened to some of these things. For a second time, watch movies for multiple times to get some of these bits and pieces.

Yeah.

[01:09:07] Rebekah: In the movie, I know that you see her and Riley says to make, make sure you don’t die or whatever. He does

[01:09:12] Tim: seem to have a little bit of affection for her, like a younger sister kind of affection. Yeah,

[01:09:17] Rebekah: So he was the, he was the father figure to the newborns, but not in a good way.

He was very mean.

[01:09:25] Tim: Dude, in for some of them he was just angry with them because they were being wild and uncontrolled But he seems to have a

[01:09:34] Rebekah: different relationship with her. They, it was developed that he was lying to them about a lot in order to keep them crazed. Oh. Like it really was the whole thing that Jackson Rathbone’s character says where he, in the book I think where he’s sometimes the the lifespan of the never dying is measured in weeks rather than centuries or whatever.

And in Bree’s book, you find out that she and all of the other newborns have been lied to by Riley that they can’t go out into the sun because they’ll explode, obviously, because that’s what happens to vampires is they die if they’re exposed to the sun. Playing into that lore. He keeps them at home.

He literally will tear limbs off of them and then show them how to put it back just to punish them and, like, all this stuff and, ugh. They can be

[01:10:22] Tim: put back together? Is that why they have to be burned?

[01:10:25] Rebekah: Yes, and fun fact, you don’t know this because it doesn’t happen in any other books, but it does tell you that in her lore, you can put vampires back together if you can put venom on the two parts.

So he would lick the part that he pulled off and glue it back on and dab the scar there. And basically, yeah and so there is this kind of sense that he does, he appreciates that Bree is not as stupid as the others. Because she’s a little more cautious than a lot of the other newborns, but ultimately there is somebody in the Brie Tanner book that Riley was more affectionate towards, but still was really bad to him.

In the book,

[01:11:12] Tim: Bella, when she stands in front of the fridge and she’s trying to line the magnets up you talked about that before. And there are two of the magnets that fight against each other and she tries to force them together. She talks to them. That’s missing in the movie. That’s another one of those instances where you get a little bit more subtext as Josiah was saying.

Yeah. And you get a little deeper understanding of how Bella is noticing how she’s trying to get Edward and Jacob together and they keep being repelled from one another. So it’s just another little thing that would have been. Made it a little

[01:11:49] Rebekah: deeper. Yeah. And it was also used later when she says something about realizing she was trying to push herself back together.

Not them. Oh.

[01:12:00] Donna: Rotten Tomatoes, it hated New Moon 29%. I think it was because it was just dark and emo. But Eclipse, they liked it a little better. It still didn’t hit fresh, but it was 47 percent

[01:12:15] Josiah: on

[01:12:15] Tim: Rotten Tomatoes. The middle movie in the Lord of the Rings trilogy, though it was very well received, the middle movie got the least award nominations and all sorts of things because it was the darkest.

Of the trilogy. So similarly, when it’s dark, it’s hard for people to say, Oh, I loved it. It was so dark and terrible and depressing.

[01:12:38] Rebekah: Yeah. Yeah. New Moon and Eclipse, which we’re reviewing today, are 29 percent and 47 on Rotten Tomatoes, neither of which is the highest nor the lowest of the five films. Oh, yeah.

Which one scored worse and which one scored better? So which one scored worse? The new moon breaking down, which one

[01:12:57] Josiah: scored better?

[01:12:58] Tim: I would say breaking down

[01:13:00] Rebekah: the correct answer and then which one scored better than Eclipse

[01:13:05] Tim: definitely breaking down to, but I think Twilight also did, which I don’t think is right, which I don’t think it should have.

Probably the first one in the last one. Both

[01:13:14] Rebekah: Twilight and The Breaking Dawn Part 2 had the same rating, which was 49%. Hey,

[01:13:19] Donna: We were right. So neither of them hit, none of them hit 50, which was sad.

[01:13:24] Rebekah: It was real. It was correct. I, for the whole time I’ve liked this series. I have always said we hate watch the movies once a year, like I, there’s something about it that’s entertaining and I won’t deny that, but I literally was like unsure about doing it on the podcast.

Cause I was like people take us seriously if we talk about twilight because it’s like one of those things that even if you do enjoy it, I feel like you can’t say that you enjoy it or like you’re weird.

[01:13:57] Tim: McDonald’s is served billions and billions of hamburgers, but

[01:13:59] Donna: nobody eats them. Someone

[01:14:02] Rebekah: is eating the hamburgers and it’s

[01:14:03] Donna: me.

Okay. Get ready for this. The production cost, remember the first movie was only 37 million. So they went to 50 million for new moon production and 68 for Eclipse. Okay. So they spent more money. Okay. Okay. The new moon opening weekend, 142 million Flippin Dollars.

[01:14:28] Tim: For the U. S. That’s

[01:14:29] Donna: insane. And Eclipse, now Eclipse,

[01:14:33] Rebekah: Eclipse was 64

[01:14:34] Donna: million.

So it was less than half the opening and I wonder if that was because New Moon was

[01:14:43] Tim: was it the winter movie? I noticed something else in the trivia that uh, New Moon had the sharpest drop from opening weekend to second weekend. Oh, yeah. Of any movie. It dropped like 70%. No one wants to re watch that depressing movie.

It dropped 70 percent the second weekend.

[01:15:07] Rebekah: No. But you guys, I I will say again, reading these back, New Moon was always my least favorite book of them. And reading them back, I genuinely was like, this is such a good… It was different, wasn’t it? Like I liked it in a different way than I realized having to read it with a critical eye.

Yeah.

[01:15:25] Donna: I’ll just go to worldwide

[01:15:26] Tim: because yeah, that’s an amazing number. The New

[01:15:29] Donna: Moon worldwide take 709 million for a $50 million movie, and the Eclipse was just under it. I’m not much under it. 698 million.

[01:15:45] Josiah: It’s crazy how consistent those numbers are there only 11 million off from one another

[01:15:52] Rebekah: I

[01:15:52] Donna: mean it broke records for like first weekend that the DVD and new blu rays were out it

[01:15:58] Tim: was ridiculous that puts it right at a billion dollars For new moon, and that’s just the DVD and the ticket sales.

[01:16:07] Donna: So who’s liking it and buying it? If nobody like

[01:16:10] Tim: nobody,

[01:16:11] Josiah: nobody made a billion dollars on Flixster,

[01:16:15] Donna: it’s not the people that go on Flixster.

[01:16:18] Tim: yoU’re probably talking here again, you’re talking about the target audience, young adult, primarily younger female teenagers that was really the audience, which is why they made some of the decisions they made from the book to the movie to make the.

The love triangle even bigger, and to be perfectly honest, when you see Jacob and the rest of the guys transformed from wolves back to their human selves, oh, it’s just because they’re too hot to wear clothes. It’s because… It’s more appealing to the target audience.

[01:16:57] Rebekah: I Cheered when he took his shirt off to help her not bleed in New Moon.

I was like, what?

[01:17:02] Donna: Yeah, I did it. But then Roger Ebert, it was on his most hated movie list. And he was still a well, respected critic of the day. There’s a lot of the trivia stuff that I looked up. I don’t know if

[01:17:20] Josiah: you know a lot about Roger Ebert, but Roger Ebert is, I find, very forgiving about weird films.

He often gives films that everyone hates. He gives them a chance and tries to find things that are good about them. And to put it on his most hated list, I’m a little surprised at actually.

[01:17:42] Donna: bUt then New Moon, many theaters in the U. S. sold out their screenings two months before the film was released.

[01:17:50] Rebekah: Who pre

[01:17:51] Donna: buys? Keep in mind, this is, this was before Regal had a crown club or AMC had a club that you could pre, that you could buy your stuff ahead of time.

[01:18:06] Josiah: About the Flixer, I think it’s important to remember, and we’ve talked a little bit about it and we, we might be a little bit a part of it, but.

There are millions of people who have never seen Twilight, but we’ll talk about how much they hate it. And so I’m sure a lot of people went on to Flixster and said that it was a bad film without watching it. I could see that. Oh, fair. For a variety of

[01:18:28] Rebekah: reasons, but. You know who didn’t hate new moon, Robert Pattinson, because he said it’s his favorite of the five or the four books.

Did he really? Wow.

[01:18:37] Donna: He

[01:18:38] Rebekah: was the mean guy. I don’t really know. Also, I did notice that at the time when it released in 2009, new moon broke the record for the biggest one day gross in the U S at the movie theater with 72. 7 million. However, It has been dethroned, not by any of the other Twilight movies. None of them ever had a one day gross that high.

But can you guess what number it is now in the list? Just how many down it is. 5, 12, 7, 22. Wow. It’s been dethroned by a lot. They’re mostly like Marvel,

[01:19:14] Donna: Star Wars,

[01:19:14] Rebekah: Harry Potter. It’s all stuff that’s released after, but. All the

[01:19:18] Tim: Marvel stuff.

[01:19:20] Josiah: Hey, it says here that Taylor Lautner hated his long hair wig. Guess what?

You’re not on Taylor Lautner. I

[01:19:27] Rebekah: hate it too. Everyone else did as well. Everybody raises their

[01:19:30] Josiah: hand. It looks

[01:19:31] Tim: so unnatural. Was there

[01:19:34] Donna: a lot of special effects stuff that they spent their budget on? What, are you talking about for Eclipse?

[01:19:40] Tim: Yeah,

[01:19:40] Donna: so many of them had

[01:19:43] Tim: to deal with hair, which, by the way,

[01:19:46] Donna: was

[01:19:46] Rebekah: so bad.

Before that, it wasn’t

[01:19:50] Donna: as bad

[01:19:51] Josiah: as 15 years ago. For

[01:19:53] Rebekah: the time. No, I remember. I read articles about how they weren’t sure about CGI, the, like CGI and the wolves, cause it was, can we make it consistent? Whatever. But I will say the one thing that bothered me, the way they looked, I get it was fine, but between new moon and eclipse, I was so annoyed.

The sizes of the wolves were so inconsistent, like the way that they were put into scenes. It was like, sometimes they looked the size of a large St. Bernard and then other times they look like what they’re supposed to, which is like massive bears. And it just drove me freaking cliff. It was so annoying, but I remember thinking that in 2009 or 10 or whenever this came out and I was like, why, how is this so bad?

Like it just it drove me nuts

[01:20:44] Josiah: There’s one other piece of trivia from Eclipse that does catch my fancy In the stories that Billy Black tells at the bonfire the third wife was originally going to be played by Christian Stewart And she filmed the scene, but the director and Stephanie Meyer thought it had an unintentional comic effect And I would agree, I can visualize it in my head.

Oh, no,

[01:21:11] Rebekah: it’s horrible. Like it’s I get oh, we filmed it. We didn’t

[01:21:14] Donna: like it. But the fact that it made it funny is amazing. That’s great.

[01:21:20] Tim: Oh, the one thing I did want to I did want to point out is something that Donna make sure that we notice every time we watch it. And that was when Carlisle is cleaning up Bella’s wound in Newman, uh, and he throws the match into the bowl that has the bloody gauze in it and it’s a heart shape on fire and, just another one of those moments to go,

[01:21:44] Donna: Oh.

[01:21:47] Rebekah: But yeah, that’s also meant to show the cover art, yeah, or new moon like that flower It’s supposed to look like

[01:21:55] Tim: that. Certainly. That’s not what it was. You’ve got to be kidding.

[01:21:59] Rebekah: No We usually do some sort of a little mini game before we give our verdicts. And so instead of a game exactly. I’ll just tell you a little bit about Brie Tanner and then we can share what we thought because part of it is a little bit of retconning and stuff, but yeah.

[01:22:15] Josiah: Are you going to ask us these and we’re going to guess?

[01:22:18] Rebekah: Brie’s novella is called, The short second life of Brie Tanner, when do you think the story of Brie starts in the novella?

[01:22:27] Josiah: I would assume it starts when she is turned by Riley. Anybody else? I would think

[01:22:33] Tim: it would probably be before that, six months before that.

Wow,

[01:22:39] Donna: I was going to say there was probably enough background about her to get her to that point, but what would it have been? I don’t know if I would have said maybe six months, probably close to

[01:22:51] Rebekah: what Tim said. The correct answer is two days before

[01:22:55] Tim: she dies. Two days before she dies.

[01:22:57] Josiah: Before she dies to the Volturi.

[01:22:59] Rebekah: Two days before she dies to the Volturi. Not becomes changed before the

[01:23:03] Tim: Volturi comes. So the book doesn’t cover anything. The book basically covers the time that she may have begun to restore her controlled humanity.

[01:23:15] Josiah: Or her morality maybe. Really?

[01:23:19] Donna: It’s

[01:23:19] Rebekah: definitely,

[01:23:20] Tim: yeah, it’s a, is it from her perspective?

[01:23:23] Rebekah: It is. It’s first person. How old is Brie? 11.

[01:23:29] Donna: So sad. 15.

[01:23:31] Tim: I thought she was probably about 16.

[01:23:35] Rebekah: Okay. So she was almost 16. So mom and daddy were very close. Last question. How did Riley select people for Victoria to change as part of the army?

[01:23:47] Tim: I guess it would make sense if he was looking for people that were already had a tendency toward being mean and hurtful.

Aww.

[01:23:56] Josiah: I would guess people who weren’t going to be missed. People who had run away from their families or something.

[01:24:03] Rebekah: Riley selected people that were homeless slash unhoused or who were prostitutes or were runaways. So Bree had been a homeless teenager living on the streets because her father was abusive and she ran away from home at the age of eight.

And she had become an unofficial prostitute. So she was all of it. So much darker than I thought it was gonna be. Absolutely horrifying. Yeah, it was so sad. And it was really sad. And it

[01:24:35] Tim: also paints Riley more darkly as well, right? So the whole thing is… Is a lot darker than the

[01:24:41] Rebekah: movie. You basically find out that Riley has changed.

He had a short list of people that he changed early on who like had he made like little factions within the army. So like he would change like, he had these three people or whatever. It doesn’t matter. His own generals. You learn a little bit about the factions and one of the leaders of one of the factions are like one of the people that was important to Riley.

is named Diego, and he was changed shortly after Riley. So he’s one of the oldest. Of the vampires, like the newborns in the army, and he has a lot more self control he and Brie like fall for each other there. They share like a kiss. And they were rushing back to get back to the house before sunrise.

Because like I said before, Riley told them that if they were outside when the sun was out, that they would explode, like that they would die. And he told them that’s how some of the other, Vampires had died. He Riley did get very angry with a lot of the other vampires for leaving a mess and about to get themselves caught.

But at the same time, Riley had convinced them that they needed to feed every single night or like every other night. And so there’s this whole undercurrent of Riley teaching them to be incredibly savage and to never ever have any control over their thirst. And like that, they just have to continually feed.

So even though they’re aging, like Bree says at one point when she’s like sitting there in the clearing and Bella’s there and after Carlisle tried to spare her and stuff, she’s I’ve, she makes a comment to herself I’ve never had to like with, once I started hunting, I just. I’ve never, I didn’t know that we could or should in any way choose to withhold like from ourselves anyway.

So the story is basically Brie and Diego running back home. Like they don’t get back to the house that Riley has for them. And so they hide in this little underwater cave thing that Diego had found. And during that time, he’s I have a theory because I’ve been out in the shade and nothing happened to me.

So he puts his like body into the light and realizes he’s got the diamondy skin and that nothing happened to him. And so both of them do this. And so they’re like, did Riley lie to us? Whatever. So they decide the two of them to follow Riley. Hiding their sense but like they try to follow Riley and see her because they don’t know Victoria’s name.

They follow him and he’s talking to Victoria who, you know, whatever, like she’s still Victoria. She’s basically the same person. You don’t get any interesting stuff, but they’re talking about how there’s 22 vampires now. Total, like to go attack the Cullens. Do you remember the number from Eclipse?

Twenty. Correct. There’s twenty two of them when Riley’s talking to Victoria. Then, from behind the trees where they’re hiding, Brie and Diego see that Riley and Victoria have visitors, and the visitors are the four of Volturi. And so they overhear this conversation between the Volturi and Riley and Victoria and the Volturi basically said, no, like we should punish you now, but find out that the targets the Cullens and Jane says we would be okay with you stop diminishing their numbers.

[01:28:06] Tim: In the mood in the movie Jane and a few other of the Volturi are watching them in Seattle. And the other ones are thinking we should do something, right? And she’s let’s just wait and see what happens.

[01:28:20] Rebekah: Yeah. So in their conversation, she’s okay when are you going to go attack them basically?

And Victoria goes I haven’t made that decision yet. I don’t know. And Jane says, you have five days. And then Victoria decides to go sooner than that. It might’ve been, you might’ve met Bree three days before she died. Because she decided to go faster than five days because Victoria knew as soon as Jane said you have five days because basically I’ll kill you if you don’t, get to the Cullens by then.

Victoria knew that the Cullens would see what was about to come and get them. Gotcha. And so she tried to move fast. So then… Diego says he was like trying to give Riley a shot because Diego and Riley were actually pretty good friends. He was trying to give him a shot and go tell him that actually the sun thing wasn’t true.

They can go outside in the sun. And he said, I’ll meet you like back at the house to Bree. And this is after they share their kiss. Riley comes back to the house alone that night and Diego never comes back and she realizes by the end of it that Diego has Riley killed him. There’s another character you get to know named Freaky Fred and Freaky Fred has a skill where he can make other people disgusted to the point where they can’t even see him.

He becomes functionally invisible. And so he takes a liking to Brie and he wants to protect her. And so Riley tells them that they’re going to go and attack this coven and all of this stuff. And that they leave like the next morning or something. And everybody’s what do you mean in the morning?

The sun’s going to be out. And he said, there’s a special day that only happens four times a year where the sun shines at an exact angle. That we can’t be killed by it and we can safely walk out in it. And he’s there’s just all these lies. And she knows something’s happened to Diego.

And basically, Fred says that he’s going to run off. And she like he has gotten to the point where he can make it so he can’t be seen and he’ll meet her somewhere in Canada. And she at this point is hoping that she’ll find Diego still because Riley’s lied and said Diego’s gone ahead. To the Cullens.

So the section where Brie actually gets into the fight is incredibly short. The fight itself seemed to have lasted no time. It was very fast. And so you get to go through the point where Carlisle like essentially she never does anything. She doesn’t hurt anyone. Or anything like that and just does, she’s I don’t want to fight, but she was like trying to surrender so that they would kill her faster because she realizes Diego has died and wants to die because yeah, and she’s like, Oh I can’t live without him, even though they’ve fallen in love like three seconds before.

And she wants to die and instead Carlisle takes it as her surrendering. And she’s I don’t want to hurt anyone because she really didn’t because she wanted to be killed. And as they’re having this interaction when the Volturi come and like she’s there on the ground she figures out because Riley had told them that the Cullens had a mind reader.

She figures out that Edward is the one that’s reading minds. She really likes Edward because he’s like, Doing his best to defend her or whatever and Edwards talking to Jane. And so while Jane is talking Brie thinks about that meeting with all the Volturi and how the Volturi had basically said You know like you have five days We want you to take some of them out and that’s where Edwards comments supposedly comes from that He read Brie’s mind and he knew the Volturi Like basically planned for him to be, or some of them to be killed and that Jane was essentially lying while Jane thinks that she got away with it, that no one knew because Edward had already killed the two people that knew that the Volturi had come.

At the end of, dear listener, you don’t know behind the scenes, but this has been a chaotic evening for us. And yeah, we’re so excited to go take some

[01:32:07] Donna: good night’s sleep. I think, honestly,

[01:32:09] Rebekah: perhaps so with all of that said, what were your verdicts?

[01:32:16] Donna: Listening to the books again, it was a pretty harsh reminder of the depth of Bella’s mental state, but at the same time, I will say, there were highlights for me, the scene on the mountain the conversations between Edward and Jacob. And I’ve said before I’m team Edward. I’m still team Edward. The greatest thing I got from this re listening and rewatching was remembering how fun it was to go to these movies with you all, with friends.

And it was just a fun thing and I was never sorry we did it. And I so laugh about it or cry about it or hate it. There was still entertainment to be had. And so I think I’m going to pick movie over book because especially New Moon, just the depth of Bella’s issues. Just really hit me in that book.

So I’m going to say movies on this one for both of these.

[01:33:24] Josiah: I think that New Moon is one of the most unique stories that I’ve ever watched or read. I think that Romeo and Juliet is a classic, is a. a template for a lot of stories, but weirdly enough, I think that New Moon is a much more interesting and creative story than Romeo and Juliet.

I think that Stephanie Meyer took the idea of Romeo and Juliet and said what if Juliet spent the bulk of the story thinking that Romeo didn’t want her? Which is not in Romeo and Juliet. Yeah. But then you have to dwell in that and steep in it, and I think that it makes it a not super enjoyable read or watch, but for me, I watched Walking Dead all the way up to the last episode.

I love hopeless, dark stories and those real feelings. aNd I, and to me, I enjoyed it and I love to feel is what I say. And so I think that new moon is a genuinely inspired story idea. And I think that the book did a really good job. It relied a lot on Bella’s internal monologue where that you lose in the movie.

And for a few other reasons although I do like Harry Clearwater being added more in the movie Victoria’s inclusion more in the movie feels very tacked on. It doesn’t really fit. It doesn’t make sense. They didn’t try and make it make sense. Logically, there are a few things back and forth, but I do think the book of New Moon is better than the movie.

However, for Eclipse, I’m gonna go the other way with the action scenes are a big part. Can’t believe that there were no action scenes from Bella’s perspective in the the book. And in the movie, it’s not just the clearing scene. It’s Riley and Victoria and Bree. All of those added scenes, not only were added action, but added characterization.

I love the idea of you take the first film where you kill James with the Gossamer thin plot is that, Oh, James comes in at the hour and a half mark. And then we spend 20 minutes trying to prevent him from killing Bella. And then he dies. He’s just some villain. Imagine if for the hour, that hour and a half you were following James and getting to know, Oh, wow, he’s not such a bad guy.

Or, the person or Laurent, Oh, he’s not such a bad guy. He’s following James because he has to. And characterizing these people, giving them motivations and relationships and tragic backstories. And, but also just the flashback of the wolves and the vampires both chasing Victoria at the beginning of Eclipse, which is told from Edward and Jacob’s perspectives towards Bella.

We actually see it in the movie, and it’s a visual. representation of, Oh, if only they were working together. And then that satisfying thing of them working together, which you don’t really see in the book. You’re like, Oh, it happened. You don’t see them working. So Eclipse movie is probably the best of the movies.

If I’m remembering correctly, but new moon, I think is such a creative story. I think it’s, it might be the best of the books. I’ll see when I finish breaking dawn, but that’s where I stand. New moon book, eclipse movie.

[01:37:10] Tim: That is interesting. I would probably not separate the two, uh, quite that much.

My thoughts are, there are things in the books that I really enjoy. The part between Jacob and Leah and some other things like that, but there are parts in the movies that I prefer. The way that Riley is presented because according to the to the short life of Brie Tanner Riley was a terrible person and he’s one of my favorite characters.

Like I said, I prefer his characterization in the movie. I enjoyed the books, but I enjoyed the experience of the movies and the first time we watched them and the more recent times we’ve watched them part of the fun is watching the movie together and being able to comment and kind of riff on all of it.

So I would give the movies this time a slight edge over the books.

[01:38:16] Rebekah: So my final verdict, I’ll keep it pretty short. I prefer the book to the movie in both cases. I’m pretty basic about that. I do it pretty much the same way every time. In this case, I just remember having the sense of, despite the things that annoy me or the things that, Disturb me a little bit.

I do remember just this last time going through new moon going with a critical eye I actually really like this story and I like that there’s not a lot of action and I like that it’s from her perspective and like I enjoyed reading the portrayal of what it was like for her to Deal with depression and like what she could face what she couldn’t face what she lied to herself about I don’t know.

I just found all of that really interesting despite Jacob’s manipulative manner, I just genuinely like his person. He is a whole person. He has flaws and, good character traits and all sorts of great stuff. And then, just, the only thing That kept me from just loving Edward 100 percent of the time was what I’ve said before about feeling like he was a little like he treated Bella a little bit controlling in a way that was very uncomfortable for me, but otherwise I loved just their whole discussions.

We didn’t really touch on their engagement and Bella’s weirdness about getting married, which I think is a weird stretch, but I loved listening to Edwards take on marriage and covenant while he calls it. He calls it something else, but I really enjoyed that. And I liked the kind of. The pure air to it in a way, but I really enjoyed the books.

I still will watch the movies once a year. I don’t know if I’ll read the books again as much as this was a good read through. I was really annoyed and bothered by more than I remembered as well, as much as I also could recognize how much I liked it. Yeah, that is what I think. So thank you.

Thank you so much. All right that is where we are going to leave you now. Just precious, dear, sweet baby listener. I probably shouldn’t call you a baby, I think. Hey,

[01:40:28] Donna: listen, truthfully, truly, the reviews and the writings we’re getting. We appreciate so much. We can’t tell you how exciting it is. We started this to be able to spend more focused time together, and we’ve done that, and we’re having a ball doing it.

But it is really thrilling when we see that you’ve given us a rating, a review, or you’ve responded to a post. Yeah. Really appreciate it. We can’t say that enough.

[01:40:54] Rebekah: Thank you. Every time we see one of those reviews, we screenshot it and share it in our group message. It’s still very surreal and pretty awesome.

So speaking of that, please leave us a review. I’ve said it on previous episodes. Please don’t leave us a review that’s not five stars. If you have feedback, we want to hear it, but email it and see if we can improve first. Next episode that you’ll be hearing, we are actually not going to be covering Breaking Dawn because…

We are going to be doing an episode about the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. Yes. And so that will be coming out so soon. I’m so excited. We’re recording them out of order, but you know what? I’m so freaking excited. And the next one you get to hear is Songbirds and Snakes. And it’s going to be amazing.

And then, yeah, we will come back to Breaking Dawn because like we can’t leave you hanging. Just like they couldn’t leave you. All right. And baby listener, I love you.

[01:41:51] Donna: So much. I’m so tired. Go Gaga. Littles. What did you say? Seven pounds, six pounds. Eight pounds? Baby listener, we love you. And until next time I do

[01:42:07] Tim: caca.

[01:42:33] Rebekah: We thought you were insulting us because we’re insecure about other people being better than us.

[01:42:37] Tim: Were you talking about me? You’re not talking about me. Are you?

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